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Galaxy Guide x - Revenge of the Sith
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Error
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Bartokk ... Alien Stats p.16
Besalisk ... Alien Stats p.17
Codru-Ji ... Alien Stats p.31
Morseerian ... Alien Stats p.97-98
Pho Ph'eahian ... Alien Encounters p.112
Werbol ... Alien Stats p.168
Xexto ... Alien Stats p.172

All good and helpful, thank you... Have you seen Kaleesh written up anywhere? In my version of Alien Stats, there is a the word Kaleesh and a picture, but no stats.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:

Part of the issue is that IRL, multi-wielding weapons is generally something that helps more with defense rather than attack.


Truth. The most common examples we see in European history are with the rapier and dagger. Definitely an attack/parry combination. While one could attack with the shorter blade, the surviving treatises show it used mainly as defense. You do have a few examples folios describing the use of a case of rapiers, and one really bizarre reference to a knight using two cruciform style swords in a tournament, but that last one was probably more showing off than a demonstration of martial prowess meant to be implemented on the field. I know that Musashi describes using a longer and shorter blade, but I'll leave the commentary on Japanese styles to someone more competent than I.

Error wrote:

What is this 100th solution to multi-wielding you're talking about that no one wants to use because it isn't sexy? I'd love to look at it. I personally don't give a sh*t if it's sexy or not as long as it is elegant and doesn't slow down game play.

It was a neat idea, going by RAW for initiative order and turn order. IIRC Raw says if Player A declares 3 actions, Player B declares 2 actions, and Player C declares 2 actions the order goes:

Player A: Action 1
Player B: Action 1
Player C: Action 1

Player A: Action 2
Player B: Action 2
Player C: Action 2

Player A: Action 3

If the house rule that I saw was implemented, if Player A had dual wielding, it would allow that player to jump ahead in the actions performed in a turn.

So, if Player A was dual wielding, he would take the normal MAPs, but would go:

Player A: Action 1
Player A: Action 2
Player B: Action 1
Player C: Action 1

Player A: Action 3
Player B: Action 2
Player C: Action 2
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:

I know that Musashi describes using a longer and shorter blade, but I'll leave the commentary on Japanese styles to someone more competent than I.


Well, if you read the Book of Five Rings, Musashi's biggest beef is against the idea of carrying a weapon purely for ceremony/show. A fighter needs to utilize all weapons at his disposal.

He also encourages you to break up the flow of combat to gain advantage, so switching between attack and defense with either weapon is encouraged.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say what you will about this board, we're well read in Medieval and Renaissance means of killin' folk.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, BFR is a pretty short read, close to 100 pages, IIRC.

I read it more as a philosophy book, curious about the mentality of Samurai, especially one as well known as Musashi.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
cheshire wrote:

I know that Musashi describes using a longer and shorter blade, but I'll leave the commentary on Japanese styles to someone more competent than I.


Well, if you read the Book of Five Rings, Musashi's biggest beef is against the idea of carrying a weapon purely for ceremony/show. A fighter needs to utilize all weapons at his disposal.

He also encourages you to break up the flow of combat to gain advantage, so switching between attack and defense with either weapon is encouraged.


Damn, I never expected to see a reference to the Sword Saint on a Star Wars website.

cheshire wrote:
Say what you will about this board, we're well read in Medieval and Renaissance means of killin' folk.


Indeed.

I read the Book of Five Rings years ago, but I don't remember much, if any, of it. While that book is a personal favorite of mine from my father's library, I always preferred his James Clavell edition of Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Now that was a great read, especially with all the Ancient China warlord anecdotes.

Oddly enough, even though the two books had different publishers, they were almost the same length/number of pages, same size and even had similar white hardcover sleeves.... I called them the "twin books on strategy" because they were always together on my dad's shelf.

Anyone with any sort of interest in strategy (warfare or otherwise) and/or philosophy should read both books. Certainly both books should be required reading for anyone in the military.
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Have you seen Kaleesh written up anywhere? In my version of Alien Stats, there is a the word Kaleesh and a picture, but no stats.


Kaleesh stats, Clone Wars Campaign Guide D6 Conversion PDF page 4

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Error
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xain Arke wrote:
Quote:
Have you seen Kaleesh written up anywhere? In my version of Alien Stats, there is a the word Kaleesh and a picture, but no stats.


Kaleesh stats, Clone Wars Campaign Guide D6 Conversion PDF page 4

Xain

Thank you. I have to factor in the fact that Grievous is Kaleesh before he is anything else. Though his metal parts ("improvements") may change DEX, STR, and (indirectly) PER, it doesn't really do much for KNO, TEC, or MEC unless it is known somewhere in canon that his metal body somehow influenced those attributes. So far, not to my knowledge, and I have studied Grievous a lot more than most of the other baddies because the very concept of him makes my inner fan boy product a monstrous erection.

Where can I find the Clone Wars campaign guide? Is it available for download on the D6 Holocron website?
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where can I find the Clone Wars campaign guide? Is it available for download on the D6 Holocron website?


Yep, it can be found on the D6 Holocron in the Rancor Pit Conversion Books
section

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Error
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still need someone to help me calculate what Grievous's Lightsaber DC should be. I guess the question is this:

What DC does your "average" Jedi Master have as his Lightsaber skill after his Sense dice are factored in? I'm looking for a range mostly, from players who have had PC's enter that area of development. 8D-12D seem about right for a Jedi Knight, but obviously a Master is higher.

In the animated series Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Grievous kills Jedi and even Mother Talzin, while repeatedly clashing with Obi-Wan Kenobi (he only uses his four-arm technique once or twice if I recall) without either of them doing any real damage. Each of these clashes essentially end with Grievous retreating for one reason or another, seemingly indicating that he is aware that in a long enough fight, Kenobi would prevail.

In one of the deleted scenes from Revenge of the Sith, GL has Grievous killing Shaak Ti. So that is the kind of skill we are talking about here.

If we're looking at charts, it's important to note that other than Jedi or Sith, Grievous would be the #1 swordsman in the galaxy since he has "been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku." That likely means one of the best swordsmen in the galaxy (Dooku) taught Grievous at least all seven forms and probably some Sith stuff too. So that pretty much puts him at at least 15D if we are being realistic.

Thoughts anyone?

EDIT: I also need to find stats for a magnetic grappling hook that would be mountable in either his forearm or the palms of his hands.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grappling hook example: http://d6holocron.com/wiki/index.php?title=Repulsorlift_Grappling_Gun

When it comes to the four saber thingy for General Grievous, I think I would just use the additional sabers as a flexible dice pool - basically a +3D bonus either to damage or to the lightsaber skill, allocatable in 1D chunks, in order to boost whatever he's doing with the sabers.

So, if he's just defending and whirring with them, it's +3D to the lightsaber skill, while if he's full out attacking, it's +3D to lightsaber damage (which could get him around 9D+2 maximum in damage the way I see it - 5D for the saber, +1D+2 for lightsaber repair, and +3D to damage). In a balanced stance, perhaps he's running +1D to damage and +2D to skill, or something like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I have written so far on the subject:

Multi-armed lightsaber combat:
When wielding multiple different lightsabers in multiple hands, Grievous receives a +1 bonus to his Lightsaber skill for each lightsaber he wields beyond the first, for a maximum bonus of +1D.

I wrote this special ability the way I did so that anyone in a lightsaber duel with Grievous could cut his hands off and thereby decrease his effectiveness, just like Kenobi does in the movie. Plus, it's really easy to implement. The damage is always going to be 5D and he is still going to be a worthy adversary even with only one lightsaber left as long as his DC is high enough.

Kenobi, with his Lightsaber and Sense dice, was probably around 22D, maybe more (too lazy to dig for it.)

This power could even be written as each arm beyond the first grants +2p (max 2D), so cutting off his hands would be even more useful. I am still in the middle of scaling everything.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note: This take on General Grievous’s special abilities is a brainstorm only. He may only end up with like two (or none) of them in his final version. But I have come up with as many as I could, as informed not only by Revenge of the Sith, but by Star Wars: The Clone Wars as well since it is technically canon. I also went into some of the textual background material regarding his transformation from Kaleesh martial demigod to cyborg Supreme Commander so I could accurately stat his equipment and body. I want to open a discussion about these special abilities and see what people think he should look like in the final cut. Something important to note is that he is almost always accompanied by a nonzero number of IG-100 MagnaGuards, which can likely kill even an experienced user of the Force by Mapping them to death, even if there are only two or three..


Special Abilities:


Magnetic grappling hook:
Grievous has one of these mounted on the back of his right forearm. It deploys a 100 meter-long lanyard, and a full load (up to 500 kg) may be reeled back in at any speed between 1 and 10 meters per round. When he is finished with it, Grievous may either release the cable or deactivate the magnetic “hook” and reel it back in to be reused. This weapon uses the Missile weapons skill, and its range is (1-20/50/100).

(I haven’t found any stats for the exact kind of magnetic grappling hook (it’s more like a small cylinder than a hook) that Grievous uses. I have seen it in TCW a number of times, but I am not seeing a lot of TCW conversions. So I looked at other grappling guns in the “Weapons Stats” fanbook and ported reasonable stats.)


Four-armed
Grievous may split his arms into two each as a roll-less full action in a round. Should he choose to use Intimidation that round, he rolls with a temporary +1D bonus. These extra arms allow for two manual Dexterity actions before applying any penalties, and when Brawling or Climbing with all four arms deployed, Grievous receives a +1D bonus.

(This is how four armed-ness is handled by WEG and fans (I think) in the following six species: Bartokk, Besalisk, Codru-Ji, Morseerian, Pho Ph'eahian, Werbol, and Xexto. Grievous is a blend of several of them. The intimidation clause I added because I thought in RotS he looked like a bad @$$ standing straight up with all four arms extended, igniting his lightsabers before facing Kenobi. It would have to be an intimidating sight to see a 2.4 m droid about to come after you like that…)


Multi-armed lightsaber combat:
When wielding several different lightsabers in multiple hands, Grievous receives a +1p bonus to his Lightsaber skill for each lightsaber he wields beyond the first, for a maximum bonus of +1D.

(I wrote this special ability the way I did so that anyone in a lightsaber duel with Grievous could cut his hands off and thereby decrease his effectiveness, just like Kenobi does in the movie. Plus, it's really easy to implement. The damage is always going to be 5D and he is still going to be a worthy adversary even with only one lightsaber left as long as his base Lightsaber DC is high enough. Kenobi, with his Lightsaber and Sense dice, was probably around 22D, maybe more (too lazy to dig for it.) This power could even be written as each arm beyond the first grants +2p (max 2D, but with still the original ceiling), so cutting off his hands would be even more useful. I am still scaling everything.)


Trained in Jedi swordplay:
Grievous has been trained in the art of Jedi lightsaber combat by Count Dooku. This training included all seven forms of Jedi lightsaber combat, as well as some Sith techniques not taught by the Jedi. Whenever Grievous engages a Jedi in battle with lightsabers, he gets +2D to his Lightsaber skill. If that Jedi is a practitioner of one of the seven lightsaber combat forms, Grievous receives an additional +1D bonus to his Lightsaber skill.

(This is a backdoor way to get Grievous’s stats up near the Jedi Masters while he fights and sometimes kills them, as he does in TCW and other material. Importantly, it still allows for the keeping of his base Lightsaber DC in the range of the “possible” (like 14D-16D. This is only one way to go about doing it; there are obviously other paths to take that may lead to a similar result. This may be on the chopping block early, but who knows. I am also thinking of changing it to +2D whenever he faces a Force user, not just a Jedi, because he also does well against Maul and kills Mother Talzin.)


Six-legged movement:
If Grievous has split his arms, he may use his six limbs to move quickly, crawling much like an insect would. He may also magnetize his already-strong hands and feet, enabling him hang onto extremely hard-to-grip surfaces, such as starship hulls, walls, and ceilings. During such movement, he receives +1D to his Running skill and +5 to his Move, though he may not attack while in his six-legged form.

(This mode of Grievous’s transportation happens mostly in TCW. He moves much quicker and can hang upside down easily, so he can go basically anywhere. In one of the episodes about Kamino getting attacked, Kenobi duels Grievous and after Grievous flees he hangs upside down under a bridge. That’s one example among many.)


Artificially-enhanced eyes:
Grievous’s eye enhancements protect them from the vacuum of space, and he can also see in infrared, ultraviolet, and other spectra. They grant him +2p to his Search skill when they are used.

(The New Essential Guide to Droids)


Space walker:
Since both his eyes and his gut sac are protected from vacuum, Grievous may space walk for as long as he can hold his breath. His cybernetics have given him some control over his oxygen needs, so he can go without a breath for about ten minutes, after which he begins to take suffocation damage.

(Grievous space walks in Revenge of the Sith after using one of his IG-100 MagnaGuard’s electrostaves to break open the windows on the bridge of his cruiser. He then uses his magnetic grappling gun to sling himself back to the hull of the cruiser, and he then walks along the hull until he gets to an airlock, where he reenters the ship. I took it at little further after seeing the diagram of his brain in The New Essential Guide to Droids, where it is evident that his brain is partially droid as well. The ten-minute limit is completely arbitrary, but I thought it would give him enough time for a good fight with some arbitrary PC’s wearing magnetic boots.)


Increased Force point potential:
During the early stages of his transition into a cyborg, Grievous was infused with the blood of the frozen Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas in the hope that it might make him Force-sensitive. While it failed in that regard, it did increase the maximum number of Force Points he could have from 5 to 7.

(This one is kind of a reach put in by a fan boy. The source material is Legends anyway, so it can’t really be used, but I thought it would be a super unique trait, and fun.)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Revenge of the Sith Reply with quote

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5863lzkfzz0ogrz/AACxvjmsQHAR5XsmWDahXcMVa?dl=0

Here is the work of this dropped project. Who is going to pick it up and finish it? We need a leader to take charge, and some people to help. This team should largely work outside of the Rancor Pit forums (at least publicly) because it is easy for a lot of us to just chime in with our opinions of what the stats of Obi-Wan or General Grievous should be, but that doesn't do much to get the work done (and often delays it). The stats don't need much work, but the rest does.

Let's please finish this!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Revenge of the Sith Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5863lzkfzz0ogrz/AACxvjmsQHAR5XsmWDahXcMVa?dl=0

Here is the work of this dropped project. Who is going to pick it up and finish it? We need a leader to take charge, and some people to help. This team should largely work outside of the Rancor Pit forums (at least publicly) because it is easy for a lot of us to just chime in with our opinions of what the stats of Obi-Wan or General Grievous should be, but that doesn't do much to get the work done (and often delays it). The stats don't need much work, but the rest does.

Let's please finish this!


Holy Jeebus, Mariana and Jehosephat, this REALLY needs an editor...

Hell, whoever wrote this blurb also confused the events of Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith because the very first line of this blurb talks about Senator Amidala returning to Coruscant to protest the creation of the Army of the Republic (which happened at the very start of AOTC) but as of the beginning of ROTS, the Clone War has already been going on for three years, far too late to protest the activation of the Army and the start of the war...
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