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Galaxy Guide x - Revenge of the Sith
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Revenge of the Sith Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5863lzkfzz0ogrz/AACxvjmsQHAR5XsmWDahXcMVa?dl=0

Here is the work of this dropped project. Who is going to pick it up and finish it? We need a leader to take charge, and some people to help. This team should largely work outside of the Rancor Pit forums (at least publicly) because it is easy for a lot of us to just chime in with our opinions of what the stats of Obi-Wan or General Grievous should be, but that doesn't do much to get the work done (and often delays it). The stats don't need much work, but the rest does.

Let's please finish this!
Sutehp wrote:
this REALLY needs an editor

It's a work in progress. Thanks for your offer to edit!

Project leader, anyone?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Revenge of the Sith Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
this REALLY needs an editor

Whill wrote:
It's a work in progress. Thanks for your offer to edit!

If you listen closely, you can hear three sounds simultaneously: 1) the hiss of escaping air from my rapidly deflating ego; 2) the splat of my foot "really stepping in it"; and 3) the "whish" of my other foot accelerating towards the gaping maw that is my mouth.

I wasn't intending on taking on yet another Star Wars D6 editing project, but it seems that I have been drafted and/or shamed into doing so. Still, it's either that or let another SWU D6 fanbook get riddled with grammar errors when I could have prevented it.

I just hope there are no immediate deadlines for the ROTS fanbook. Shocked
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Immediate deadlines? Let's see. This project was first brought up in November of 2005 and "officially" announced in February 2006 (when the AotG GG was first completed). It stalled many years ago. It currently doesn't even have a project leader. There are no deadlines at this point.

It has been mentioned that the stats need gone over and updated. Fine. But stats are the relatively easy part. It needs the capsule write-ups. It needs editing. It needs layout. But first and foremost, it needs a leader to get the ball rolling again.

Other fan "galaxy guides" have come out since this began being worked on, but no one has done their own RotS galaxy guide, even with the existing material being posted publicly for a while now. That means the Star Wars D6 community is waiting on the Rancor Pit to do it. This project wasn't completed by 2015, and since then four new Star Wars movies have come out!

I've heard there is a Rogue One sourcebook in the works. RotS came out over 13 years ago. It's widely viewed as the best prequel by classic trilogy fans. The fall of the old Republic and the beginning of our beloved classic Galactic Empire. The rise of Emperor Palpatine. The origin story of Darth Vader. The beginning of the Jedi Purge. The birth of Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker. Let's please make this happen!
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that I would like to see this come out. I know that most of this has been statted out. It just needed to be put together. However, I believe it's going to need a major overhaul. I think most of the characters who made their debut in the movie will be okay. But all of the major characters will need to be worked on because of Lucasfilm and Disney negating the EU that was around at the time and the Clone Wars with Ahsoka taking its place.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forceally wrote:
But all of the major characters will need to be worked on because of Lucasfilm and Disney negating the EU that was around at the time and the Clone Wars with Ahsoka taking its place.

If you are talking about the 2008+ “The Clone Wars” overwrite the previous 2002-2005 “Clone Wars Multimedia Project,” then that took place prior to Disney’s involvement. Or are you talking about something else?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Immediate deadlines? Let's see. This project was first brought up in November of 2005 and "officially" announced in February 2006 (when the AotG GG was first completed). It stalled many years ago. It currently doesn't even have a project leader. There are no deadlines at this point.

It has been mentioned that the stats need gone over and updated. Fine. But stats are the relatively easy part. It needs the capsule write-ups. It needs editing. It needs layout. But first and foremost, it needs a leader to get the ball rolling again.

Other fan "galaxy guides" have come out since this began being worked on, but no one has done their own RotS galaxy guide, even with the existing material being posted publicly for a while now. That means the Star Wars D6 community is waiting on the Rancor Pit to do it. This project wasn't completed by 2015, and since then four new Star Wars movies have come out!


Ok, then that gives me some time to review the present documents for text/grammar editing. Stats apparently don't need to be edited, and that's fine with me. I am totally unfamiliar with D6 stats crunching, so I gratefully leave that to people more qualified to do that sort of thing.

Whill wrote:
I've heard there is a Rogue One sourcebook in the works.


In point of fact, I'm the editor for the Rogue One sourcebook. Real Life (TM) has kept me from finishing the latest iteration edits, but I'm going to be getting to it in the next couple of weeks (assuming there are no unforeseen interruptions).

Whill wrote:
RotS came out over 13 years ago. It's widely viewed as the best prequel by classic trilogy fans. The fall of the old Republic and the beginning of our beloved classic Galactic Empire. The rise of Emperor Palpatine. The origin story of Darth Vader. The beginning of the Jedi Purge. The birth of Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker. Let's please make this happen!


Yeah, I agree that ROTS was the best of the prequel trilogy. I'll try to do my part to edit this material and help make ROTS a better sourcebook. It might take a while, but this will happen.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the spirit. But stats can still need edited. Skills can be spelled wrong.

Falconer wrote:
Forceally wrote:
But all of the major characters will need to be worked on because of Lucasfilm and Disney negating the EU that was around at the time and the Clone Wars with Ahsoka taking its place.

If you are talking about the 2008+ “The Clone Wars” overwrite the previous 2002-2005 “Clone Wars Multimedia Project,” then that took place prior to Disney’s involvement.

Exactly. This RotS fan-made supplement project began development before The Clone Wars, but a lot as happened since 2006. A decision will have to be made regarding any contradictions so it would make sense to have a policy/guideline in place. Is this now a Disney-continuity based work? Or will this remain an EU-continuity based work? Incorporate both? Neither?

Outside of the films themselves, continuity is a big mess. TCW threw a huge hydrospanner into the works, and that is now technically part of the EU and the new canon. TCW didn't just contradict the 2002-2005 Clone Wars multimedia project - It contradicted the films in what I feel are substantial ways. It's not going to be my call, but my suggestion would be to try to avoid as much continuity outside the films as possible. I know that's easier said than done when you need fluff, but I'm just throwing it out there. I would hope the emphasis would be to tie RotS into the classic films more than non-film continuity.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
That's the spirit. But stats can still need edited. Skills can be spelled wrong.


True as you tell it. If/when I get to this, I'll make sure to inspect the stats for editing/grammar/spelling errors. I can't speak to the playability/game accuracy/game balance of the stats themselves (that sort of stuff is way beyond my expertise), but I can at least make sure they're spelled right.

Whill wrote:
Falconer wrote:
Forceally wrote:
But all of the major characters will need to be worked on because of Lucasfilm and Disney negating the EU that was around at the time and the Clone Wars with Ahsoka taking its place.

If you are talking about the 2008+ “The Clone Wars” overwrite the previous 2002-2005 “Clone Wars Multimedia Project,” then that took place prior to Disney’s involvement.

Exactly. This RotS fan-made supplement project began development before The Clone Wars, but a lot as happened since 2006. A decision will have to be made regarding any contradictions so it would make sense to have a policy/guideline in place. Is this now a Disney-continuity based work? Or will this remain an EU-continuity based work? Incorporate both? Neither?

Outside of the films themselves, continuity is a big mess. TCW threw a huge hydrospanner into the works, and that is now technically part of the EU and the new canon. TCW didn't just contradict the 2002-2005 Clone Wars multimedia project - It contradicted the films in what I feel are substantial ways. It's not going to be my call, but my suggestion would be to try to avoid as much continuity outside the films as possible. I know that's easier said than done when you need fluff, but I'm just throwing it out there. I would hope the emphasis would be to tie RotS into the classic films more than non-film continuity.


I'm assuming that the 2002-2005 Clone Wars multimedia project involves the Clone Wars cartoons from the Cartoon Network? Again, all this is outside my knowledge as I was never very interested in the Clone Wars stuff and haven't paid much attention to it. I tried trying to watch all of the TCW episodes in chronological order last year but lost interest before I got to Season 3. Again, I'll try to help where I can but I'll have to leave resolving any continuity errors to people more knowledgeable on the subject than I.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I'm assuming that the 2002-2005 Clone Wars multimedia project involves the Clone Wars cartoons from the Cartoon Network?

Yes, but it also includes all the clone wars novels that came out during that time, which was taken a lot more seriously than the cartoons. In-universe, the Clone War was officially three years in length. The premise of the project is that the books and comics that came out during in between 2002 and 2005 all took place on a specific month during the three years of the war. It didn't match up exactly but some things were roughly "real-time" so things progressed towards RotS while that movie was in production.

The Clone Wars multimedia project had a basic framework supplied George Lucas himself. It was mostly some overall direction of where things were leading but also some specific facts. He directed to the project that Anakin was promoted to Jedi Knight approximately 6-9 months before the end of the war (around or not too long after Padme became pregnant.) Anakin did not take a padawan himself because right after his promotion, Obi-Wan and he were assigned to the Outer Rim Sieges mentioned in the film. This was what Lucas at the time felt supported the films the best. I didn't get into the stuff that much myself, but overall it did have the benefit of making a good amount of sense...

Then in 2008 when there were no films to support, The Clone Wars came out. Now the emphasis was completely on this new show, keeping people interested in the franchise while the live action show was in development, and keeping the franchise marketable for possible sale to Disney. Instead of building towards RotS, now it and all the live action films were in the past, so who cares about the past anymore?

So they condensed 2.2-2.5 years of prior Clone War continuity into literally a single month after AotC to make room for new continuity. So Anakin, who was "but the learner" when he last met Obi-Wan on Mustafar was now promoted to Jedi Knight only one month after Yoda felt Anakin's terrible pain literally across the galaxy when his mother died. And the Jedi Council forced this troubled Jedi to take a new padawan literally a few days after being promoted to Knight. They said they would someday publish a master timeline that reconciled the EU end of the war with TCW, but Lucas sold the company to Disney and the canon was rebooted so the Clone Wars multimedia project was de-canonized anyway. So now only the stuff that makes the least sense is canon, LOL.

Anakin Skywalker himself said it best...

And here is a secret transmission of the Jedi Council meeting when Anakin's immediate promotion and padawan assignment were determined...

But if the project leader wants Ashoka and all the TCW nonsense in the RotS galaxy guide, then so be it. It will not be my call to make. I'll support whatever is decided.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe there can be a compromise. A way to satisfy everyone, but it will involve more work overall.

We already have all the info together for this sourcebook which takes into account the movie, the novel adaptation, and the Clone Wars as depicted in the novels and the comics between 2002 and 2005. Get that together into a sourcebook, but add in the title Legends. Just like what they've been doing for all the novels printed in the 90's and so forth. That way, we don't throw away all the work that has already been put into this.

We take a few months to rest up, and see the final season of the Clone Wars. Then we begin to revise some of the stats, take away some of them, and add in new stats for Ahsoka, Rex, and the others. For this sourcebook, we add in the notation Canon in the title.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forceally wrote:
Maybe there can be a compromise. A way to satisfy everyone, but it will involve more work overall.

We already have all the info together for this sourcebook which takes into account the movie, the novel adaptation, and the Clone Wars as depicted in the novels and the comics between 2002 and 2005. Get that together into a sourcebook, but add in the title Legends. Just like what they've been doing for all the novels printed in the 90's and so forth. That way, we don't throw away all the work that has already been put into this.

We take a few months to rest up, and see the final season of the Clone Wars. Then we begin to revise some of the stats, take away some of them, and add in new stats for Ahsoka, Rex, and the others. For this sourcebook, we add in the notation Canon in the title.

So you mean two editions, a Legends one and a Canon one? That's a good idea. Although TCB is technically part of the EU, a "Legends" edition would be a good excuse to make it EU minus TCB, with a Canon edition to come later.

Forceally, I think you would be a great project leader.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like a reasonable compromise. And I think that Forceally would be someone I could easily work under for a projejct like this, assuming I can get my real life together enough to participate. And this is something I would REALLY like to help bring to fruition.

Once we get it underway, can we set small attainable goals and timelines for each goal one step at a time? I think that would keep me from suffering from an overwhelming scope of a project, which is kind of why nothing has gotten done on this in years.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As flattered as I am about the offer of being project leader, I'm trying to get some messes in my life straightened out as well. Besides, the best I could do in contributions is what I did when we were doing D6 conversions of the Saga sourcebooks - indicating what WEG had previously statted, and what had previously been converted to D6 from prior works.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm happy to help with the project with editing, stats, and a bit of creative writing. No art from me unless you like squiggly stick figures. Laughing

Rather than wait for a project leader and a dedicated team, why don't we crowdsource this and actually get it done? Do we have any materials in hand or do we have to start this project from scratch?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
I'm happy to help with the project with editing, stats, and a bit of creative writing. No art from me unless you like squiggly stick figures. Laughing

Rather than wait for a project leader and a dedicated team, why don't we crowdsource this and actually get it done? Do we have any materials in hand or do we have to start this project from scratch?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5863lzkfzz0ogrz/AACxvjmsQHAR5XsmWDahXcMVa?dl=0

Here is the actual work done so far. Many have chimed in with opinions in this thread and the original 74-page thread. We need less talk and more rock.

I only said we need a project leader because with all the discussion about it and opinions, nothing has actually been done since the project was abandoned. Too much committee and not enough chairman, maybe? The movie came out in 2005. This project began active development in 2006. The materials of the work done so far have been public since 2014. No one in any Star Wars D6 community I am involved with has done it, or shared that anyone else did it. Someone could have used what was there and finished it by now, or someone could have started from scratch and made an RotS galaxy guide sometime since 2005. Now it is the fifth most recent Star Wars film. If anyone had made a RotS GG, we would have heard about it. But no one has, which means if we don't do it, no one will.

Crowd source all you want. Whatever gets it done! I suggest moving forward with Forceally's suggestion of making it a pre-2008 "Legends" edition first (what all the existing material is), and then later editing it to be a Disney canon edition.
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