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Research and Planning for SpecForce Write-Ups
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:35 am    Post subject: Research and Planning for SpecForce Write-Ups Reply with quote

So, I'm starting this thread to post some thoughts and stimulate discussion on the Rebel SpecForce regiments.

Perhaps it's "old dog mentality," but I just have a hard time seeing the benefits of the way RoE lays out the SpecForce organization.

I've given my thoughts on similar issues concerning the imperial military, but was convinced that imperial bureaucracy was sufficiently draconian to explain why they would operate inefficiently (or rather, for the sake of "efficiency" in production, they sacrifice efficiency in execution).

However, I feel like the Rebel SpecForces could easily be reorganized into a few specialized regiments based on operational function rather than on specific individual training. That is to say, instead of "attaching" a medic, a vehicle tech, a comm tech, a security tech and a heavy weapons specialist to a squad of infiltrators or space ops, each regiment might have all the basic specialties under one operational commander (rather than colonel Joe having to ask Colonel Jack to lend him a gunner, and Colonel Jim to lend him a medic, etc.)

The most glaring oversight I see at the moment is the lack of snipers in SpecForce.

Which regiment would they come from? Infiltrators? Heavy Weapons? Pathfinders?

Anyone have opinions on how better to organize the SpecForces in a way that makes practical sense as well as making sense in the SWU?

I certainly have my own ideas, but would like to hear others.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my thoughts on a dedicated SpecForce Sniper. You had some thoughts to add there, as well.

A couple of my other concepts involved an Alliance equivalent of a Ranger Battalion; called the Strike Force (individual members called Strikers), it would provide a more generalist punch for attacking high value targets.

The other would be an Alliance Advisory Force, sending out small teams of specialist troops to train local forces in irregular combat and the like, similar to how Green Beret ODAs operate one the real world.

I’m AFK and using my phone at the moment, so I can go into more detail later.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that Snipers would come either from Infiltrators or Pathfinders.
Or, perhaps Sniper school sends them into a joint operations training by both?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even with all the tech I do not see any military in star wars as modern.

to me the best "mold" to fit is the ww2 era, maybe even upto vietnam but I would not say beyond.

This in most aspects military, where in many ways the empire was inspired and roughly based on nazi germamy and the military of the era.

If we look to the navy.......Large battleships, dreadnaughts.......obsolete by the 1990s with desert storm being the last war of the old ships.
However even with the time leap to First Order we still see the "ww2" era military mold.

I would then look for insporation for special forces in what was around at the time and leaborate a little on this.

we had commandos, paratroopers, various smaller special units, ss and whenramch had special units ,OSS, and SOE, spetsnaz and the famous SAS had its infancy during the time, then with the 1945-60 period where several of these were further developed.
We then begin getting the navy seals, with the UDT/BUDS from late ww2 and Korea developed further into waht will become the modern SEAL as we know them.

It was also in the korea-vietnam the special forces was further expanded on to include CSAR and other types of Special Ops.


I would look to the basic SOE training, which included

Small Arms
Languages
Cultures
-Squad Weapon familiarity
Unarmed Combat
Enemy Recognition
Intelligence
Counter Intelligence
Explosives and Demolitions
Parachuting
and in some cases Scuba

This is very close to what the SOE agents went through, the commandoes would have a more rigourous regime, but it would include at least most if not all of the abive in addtion to several other advanced and basic military skills, like vehicle operation, enemy material familiarity , mdical, climbing, ropes, all soldiering and such.

I would say look a documnetaries about the ww2 era commandos, since they were the mold, most if not all of their training would be a "minimum" and then maybe for star wars being star wars some skills needs being added
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd say that Snipers would come either from Infiltrators or Pathfinders.
Or, perhaps Sniper school sends them into a joint operations training by both?


I think this is about what the sniper school would contain in regards to what skills are thought.

I would assume that if a snaiper is a pathfinder then being a pathfinder is enogh.

But what about the clerk or medic that takes sniper school.?
I would say sniper school would send their graduates into pathfinder or inflitrator units, with some few for infantry and cavlry support.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Executive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces
THis link is very good and the wiki links on the page is SPC OPS relevant both in time/rea but also further, and for differnt nations and "doctrines"
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the notion of relating it to WW2 with one caveat: galactic warfare will come with a lot more variables, some of which require a more modern-like approach.

I've been looking at SpaceOps and trying to imagine what their skill set would look like.

VBSS is pretty much their bread and butter, so I've been playing around with how to represent that in D6 terms while differentiating them from the other regiments.


Last edited by Naaman on Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Here are my thoughts on a dedicated SpecForce Sniper. You had some thoughts to add there, as well.

A couple of my other concepts involved an Alliance equivalent of a Ranger Battalion; called the Strike Force (individual members called Strikers), it would provide a more generalist punch for attacking high value targets.

The other would be an Alliance Advisory Force, sending out small teams of specialist troops to train local forces in irregular combat and the like, similar to how Green Beret ODAs operate one the real world.

I’m AFK and using my phone at the moment, so I can go into more detail later.


Oh, wow, that was like, my first post just about. Rereading it, I sound so immature in that thread. Haha!

Learned a lot about shooting since then...

I really like the "ease" of just reimagining USSOCOM forces into a SW setting, but not entirely sure how closely I want to follow a real world organization. In general, I think that the Green Berets are the quintessential SpecOps troops while other regiments would be more specifically specialized.

To put it differently, one ODA would be made up of a bunch of guys from several of the RoE SpecForce disciplines (more or less).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:47 am    Post subject: Re: Research and Planning for SpecForce Write-Ups Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
The most glaring oversight I see at the moment is the lack of snipers in SpecForce.

Which regiment would they come from? Infiltrators? Heavy Weapons? Pathfinders?


Speaking for myself, I always imagined that snipers would originate in the Infiltrators since the mandate/mission objective of the Infiltrators is to kill without leaving a trace and killing a target with a sniper's rifle from a distance is very conducive to that objective (and, if memory serves, RoE does have stats for a sniper blaster rifle specifically designed to have an invisible blaster bolt so having a blaster bolt serve as a tracer that can point back to the sniper is not an issue).

OTOH, the Pathfinders' mandate/mission objective is scouting and reconnaissance, which snipers and/or their spotters can accomplish with their long-range scopes and binoculars. Though my preference is for snipers to originate with the Infiltrators, it's equally plausible for them to come from the Pathfinders.

IMO, Heavy Weapons doesn't gel much with my idea of snipers. Yes, Heavy Weapons specialists provide support fire and a sniper also provides support fire, but a sniper rifle doesn't strike me as a "heavy" weapon. Keep in mind that I'm not a man with military experience (and I wouldn't dare to presume my one semester of ROTC training in college gives me much, if any, insight into such matters, especially compared to people who have actually served in the military), so my opinion that a sniper rifle isn't a heavy weapon doesn't count for much.

Just my $0.02.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My issue is the strange specializations that SpecForces have. Urban combat? Wilderness fighters? And then there are separate units for the different wilderness types?

What if your urban guys need a sniper? Or your wilderness guys?

And why would pathfinders be different than wilderness guys? Don't they operate in the "wilderness," too?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning Pathfinders, I've been looking at the USAF's combat controllers and the US Army's pathfinder school to help inform the skill set I will give them.

Also, in RoE, there is a section on mission types.

I may use this to just revamp the whole SpecForce into mission-based units, rather than skill-based units.

Having one regiment that specializes in Raids, another in Ambushes, another in Recon, etc. seems so much more flexible and efficient.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So having given this a thought I am not very concerned with wat units belong where, and even not very interested in what units
can be considered special forces.

for the most paert spcial forces personnel is drawn form other branches of sevive, with the candidates being considered "good enough"
to enter the training regimen.


I am also thinking not to make the special forces overly rambo, but they are and should be miles above the average soldier at least
in their field.

SCOUT/SNIPER

Entry Requirement:
(Note that 2D is considered average, and that the trooper will get addional training)

DEXTRERITY: 3D
PPERCEPTION: 3D

Assumed to be a scout trooper and have the standard scout trooper training.
-note that most scout troopers are given a 3D to mechanical, this due to their extensive use of "speeder bikes"
Even among the Scout Troopers there is great difference between the "designated" marksman and the trained sniper.
this is what the sniper entry requirements should be I am not sure of, but to me they have to be their "class" aka they have to be a
stomtrooper, a pilot or what not, and have to pass some entry requirement

The Entry requirements are IMO the following (for scout trooper snipers)

I am thinking you have completed what ever military basic training you are given
but for a marksman Idk, maybe something like this.
Unlike the assault special forces, the sniper is about not beinfg detected, and will for that reason not focus much in his training
on close combat, brawling and the like, but rather stealth and accuracy and edurance.
They should also have some intelligence gathering skills, maybe even languages, but I tried to sow soemthing tohheter based on a
Scout/Sniper and Scout Trooper.


DEX: 3D
STR: 3D
SKILLS:
Blaster 4D
Dodge 4D
Grenades 4D
Run 4D
Survival 4D


SNIPER TRAINING (Specialization phase of training)

DEXTERITY: trained to minimum 3D+2
Blaster (not actually trained in Blaster outside Blaster Spceilaizations)
(s)-Blaster: Sniper Rifle 7D
(s)-Blaster: Blaster Pistol/Hold Out 6D

KNOWLEDGE: 2D
Survival 6D
Tactics 3D
(s)Asymetric Warfare 4D+2
Willpower 5D

PERCEPTION: trained to minimum 3D+2
Command 4D
Hide 6D
Investigation 4D
Search 6D
Sneak 6D

MECHANICAL: (3D) -Normal for Scout Troopers
Communications 4D
Sensors 4D

STRENGTH: trained to minimum 3D+2
Climbing/Jumping 5D
Lifting 4D+2
Stamina 5D
Swimming 4D

TECHNICAL: 2D
Blaster Repair 5D
Computer Programming/Repair 3D+2
Demolitions 4D+2
First Aid 4D

As I see the role of the scout sniper, then I feel this added to a "qualifying" template/Character will reflect the roles
expected to perfom. I am not giving them all the skill of their job as most of them they have trained form before, a
scout trooper turned "snaiper" not just given a scoped rifle and called designated marksman, but an actual trained sniper is still
a scout sniper in everthing, and he is a sniper on top of this.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Research and Planning for SpecForce Write-Ups Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:

Speaking for myself, I always imagined that snipers would originate in the Infiltrators since the mandate/mission objective of the Infiltrators is to kill without leaving a trace and killing a target with a sniper's rifle from a distance is very conducive to that objective (and, if memory serves, RoE does have stats for a sniper blaster rifle specifically designed to have an invisible blaster bolt so having a blaster bolt serve as a tracer that can point back to the sniper is not an issue).

OTOH, the Pathfinders' mandate/mission objective is scouting and reconnaissance, which snipers and/or their spotters can accomplish with their long-range scopes and binoculars. Though my preference is for snipers to originate with the Infiltrators, it's equally plausible for them to come from the Pathfinders.

IMO, Heavy Weapons doesn't gel much with my idea of snipers. Yes, Heavy Weapons specialists provide support fire and a sniper also provides support fire, but a sniper rifle doesn't strike me as a "heavy" weapon. Keep in mind that I'm not a man with military experience (and I wouldn't dare to presume my one semester of ROTC training in college gives me much, if any, insight into such matters, especially compared to people who have actually served in the military), so my opinion that a sniper rifle isn't a heavy weapon doesn't count for much.

Just my $0.02.


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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
So having given this a thought I am not very concerned with wat units belong where, and even not very interested in what units
can be considered special forces.

for the most paert spcial forces personnel is drawn form other branches of sevive, with the candidates being considered "good enough"
to enter the training regimen.


I am also thinking not to make the special forces overly rambo, but they are and should be miles above the average soldier at least
in their field.

SCOUT/SNIPER

Entry Requirement:
(Note that 2D is considered average, and that the trooper will get addional training)

DEXTRERITY: 3D
PPERCEPTION: 3D

Assumed to be a scout trooper and have the standard scout trooper training.
-note that most scout troopers are given a 3D to mechanical, this due to their extensive use of "speeder bikes"
Even among the Scout Troopers there is great difference between the "designated" marksman and the trained sniper.
this is what the sniper entry requirements should be I am not sure of, but to me they have to be their "class" aka they have to be a
stomtrooper, a pilot or what not, and have to pass some entry requirement

The Entry requirements are IMO the following (for scout trooper snipers)

I am thinking you have completed what ever military basic training you are given
but for a marksman Idk, maybe something like this.
Unlike the assault special forces, the sniper is about not beinfg detected, and will for that reason not focus much in his training
on close combat, brawling and the like, but rather stealth and accuracy and edurance.
They should also have some intelligence gathering skills, maybe even languages, but I tried to sow soemthing tohheter based on a
Scout/Sniper and Scout Trooper.


DEX: 3D
STR: 3D
SKILLS:
Blaster 4D
Dodge 4D
Grenades 4D
Run 4D
Survival 4D


SNIPER TRAINING (Specialization phase of training)

DEXTERITY: trained to minimum 3D+2
Blaster (not actually trained in Blaster outside Blaster Spceilaizations)
(s)-Blaster: Sniper Rifle 7D
(s)-Blaster: Blaster Pistol/Hold Out 6D

KNOWLEDGE: 2D
Survival 6D
Tactics 3D
(s)Asymetric Warfare 4D+2
Willpower 5D

PERCEPTION: trained to minimum 3D+2
Command 4D
Hide 6D
Investigation 4D
Search 6D
Sneak 6D

MECHANICAL: (3D) -Normal for Scout Troopers
Communications 4D
Sensors 4D

STRENGTH: trained to minimum 3D+2
Climbing/Jumping 5D
Lifting 4D+2
Stamina 5D
Swimming 4D

TECHNICAL: 2D
Blaster Repair 5D
Computer Programming/Repair 3D+2
Demolitions 4D+2
First Aid 4D

As I see the role of the scout sniper, then I feel this added to a "qualifying" template/Character will reflect the roles
expected to perfom. I am not giving them all the skill of their job as most of them they have trained form before, a
scout trooper turned "snaiper" not just given a scoped rifle and called designated marksman, but an actual trained sniper is still
a scout sniper in everthing, and he is a sniper on top of this.


This is along the lines of what I have in mind. I've come up with a tentative "base SpecForce" template. Each type of SpecForce troop will then have his specialty skills added to that template either in the form of skill increases to the base template or the addition of specializations (or both).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s not unrealistic for units to be environment focused in a universe where so many of the planets are described in terms of their predominant environment (forest moon, ice world, desert planet, etc.), but I agree that the mission-oriented SpecForce types (Pathfinders, Heavy Weapons, etc.) would be better integrated into the environment-focused ones.

As far as duplicating US Special Forces, I think it goes beyond just duplicating the familiar. Liaison/Training detachments will be a huge force multiplier for building new Alliance movements or improving the effectiveness of existing ones, and this is vastly more important to the Alliance than the US, seeing as how the Alliance doesn’t have a massive, powerful military to fall back on.

As for a Ranger-equivalent unit, the need is somewhat less clear, as the various environment-specialist regiments you’re suggesting would be able to perform this function. However, I’ve always gotten the impression that SpecForces were much more small unit oriented, and generally dispersed across the galaxy, so a generalist unit that can make company/battalion/regimental level assaults on high value targets would fill a need that SpecForce doesn’t necessarily cover.
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