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Rogue One (spoilers thread)
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Pel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, with several more half speed playbacks, it does appear that Vader reflected a bolt off his hand, extended his palm right before the bolt would have struck him (almost like he knew it was coming because of that crazy Force thing).

Thanks for the link tip and clarification!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur. I saw this myself after getting RO on blu-ray. It's definitely Vader reflecting a laser bolt that Rebel trooper had fired. The camera angle change at just the right moment made it look as if Vader was shooting a blaster bolt out of his palm (which is of course ridiculous).
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found these recently on YT:

Rogue One - Moff Tarking (deep fake)
Rogue One - Leia (deep fake)

What do you think? Better? Not better?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Found these recently on YT:

Rogue One - Moff Tarking (deep fake)
Rogue One - Leia (deep fake)

What do you think? Better? Not better?


The Leia one looks much better, though a bit too much contrast. Tarkin still looks creepy and strange.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife doesn't know very much about Star Wars. She didn't know Tarkin was fake until I told her after the movie.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Found these recently on YT:

Rogue One - Moff Tarking (deep fake)
Rogue One - Leia (deep fake)

What do you think? Better? Not better?

The first time I saw Rogue One, the CG Tarkin and Leia faces were jarring. I'd seen ANH well over 100 times and knew those faces better than the back of my hand. And speaking of hands, in an early viewing it did not escape my notice the RO Leia actor has larger hands than Carrie Fisher. Although I loved the film, Tarkin was a major disbelief suspension breaker for me at first. My reaction subsided with subsequent viewings as I got more used to it, at least with Tarkin. The vocal and body performance for Tarkin is superb. I think that is what I focus on now. I sometimes find myself randomly quoting Tarkin from RO during my day. "Director Krennic..." Leia's "Hope" sounds good, but the face is pretty bad. I just ride the emotion of the ending of the film and glaze over it

The Deepfake Leia is a much better likeness than the film. I found the Deepfake Tarkin to sometimes be better, but other times not be better. What's really weird is, the Cushing Estate was heavily involved in the rendering process of CG Tarkin, sometimes even demanding minute adjustments.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I sat in the theater I initially thought Tarkin was going to be a bit character and we'd never see his face directly, just in reflections and stuff. Sadly I was proven wrong.

Still better than Greedo shooting first though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
As I sat in the theater I initially thought Tarkin was going to be a bit character and we'd never see his face directly, just in reflections and stuff. Sadly I was proven wrong.

Still better than Greedo shooting first though.

LOL, true. I'm glad Tarkin was not a bit character because he is the main villain of my favorite film. But yeah, Tarkin's face is jarring.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny, I've seen many people holding up the Rogue One CG-augmented characters of Tarkin and Princess Leia and suggesting that movies in the future will not need the actual actors anymore, as they can be anyone and the CG mask could be put on them and people would "think" they are watching the actual actor that is CG.

I thought to myself "no way", as I felt the CG-augmented Leia was NOT good, and the CG-augmented Tarkin was barely passable solely based on the actors performance and voice pattern mimicry.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the uncanny valley nature of Tarkin actually helped, but I'm an oddball that way.

The young Leia was, yeah, not good, but probably as good as can be done today.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've recently found out and still feel quite surprised that Rogue One seems to be very popular with all kinds of Star Wars fans. Even people who who rank the original three movies as their personal top three, many put Rogue One right at number 4.
I also don't really recall anyone ever talking about major problems with the movie, with the only thing I can think of being that Disney missed an opportunity for future expansions and merchandise by killing the entire cast. of characters. And that's not really a criticism regarding the movie's cinematic qualities.

I personally did not enjoy it, since to me it never felt like a Star Wars movie. Only a typical 2010s war movie that got its costumes and props from from the Star Wars storehouse. But I don't recall any other people sharing this perception.

But I am still really curious. What qualities and elements of the movie make it rank so highly in the regards of a great many people? Is it just the weakness of the competition, or is it considered to be a genuinely great movie?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yora wrote:
What qualities and elements of the movie make it rank so highly in the regards of a great many people? Is it just the weakness of the competition, or is it considered to be a genuinely great movie?

Well, within this specific segment of the fandom, I can see parallels between Rogue One and the sorts of campaigns we all love to play: stories wrapped around those of the heroes of the main films, where bit parts are shown to have their own exciting arcs to follow, with no script immunity to protect them from death, and only the hope that, if the character does die, it's not all for nothing.

Granted, they weren't perfect. For one thing, some of the cameos were a little forced; why were Artoo and Threepio on the ground at Yavin during the scramble for the Battle of Scariff, when they should've been onboard the Tantive IV, and when was there time to get them there and still get the Tantive into the docking bay on the Profundity? Or the ridiculous Occupier tank?

Personally, I'd prefer a modified version of Rogue One, with the Tantive IV waiting somewhere outsystem like they did in the Star Wars Radio Drama (but then, I'm the inclusive sort who likes to fold as much of the EU into his own version as possible).
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Rogue One rates as #4 for me.
I got a big kick out the movie for a couple reasons.

First, it plugged the "hole" that I've heard a (recent) growing number of people grousing about Star Wars and how "stupid it was for the Empire to design a super death station with a "major flaw" in it".

It also had the "feel" of a role playing type of situation. The "What's your call-sign?" followed by "..... uh...... Rogue....Rogue One". It hearkened back to the original Star Wars with Han in the detention center. But more importantly, it struck me a lot of what a PC would have said in the same position. Couple with that that fact that the heroes were actually killed during the movie really struck me that this was the GM saying "See....no one is safe."

I really enjoyed that.

There were some aspects I didn't care for, but overall it was an enjoyable movie that had a lot of redeeming traits.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, Grimace. RO explains how there was weakness in the design of the Death Star, and it also explains why the first Death Star took so long to be constructed. Galen Erso said that the Empire would eventually realize that they didn't need him, so he went back and made himself seem indispensable while hiding his flaw. After RO, the Empire did realize what he had done and that they didn't need him so had no one slowing down progress and the second Death Star made it to operational status in much less time.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Granted, they weren't perfect. For one thing, some of the cameos were a little forced; why were Artoo and Threepio on the ground at Yavin during the scramble for the Battle of Scariff, when they should've been onboard the Tantive IV, and when was there time to get them there and still get the Tantive into the docking bay on the Profundity? Or the ridiculous Occupier tank?

I wasn't a fan of the tank either, but it's appearance in one scene doesn't really bother me.

As far as the droids, it was very appropriate to have them in a cameo but for each different reasons. Anthony Daniels is the only actor to appear in all (now 11) Star Wars films (Solo was the only one were he understandably was not playing Threepio). And Artoo carried the Death Star plans inside him in most of the original film - He was even on the Death Star, with the plans for the Death Star in him. It's a sort of foreshadowing since RO is all about the Alliance acquiring those plans and Artoo has a key role in the chronologically next film.

As far as the droids' particular cameo location, they intentionally held off Tantive IV's appearance in the film until the very end of RO where it would have the most dramatic impact, so the droids on the ground. Going into RO we knew that the droids are on the Tantive IV at the beginning of ANH but on our first viewing of RO we do not know that the Tantive IV is in the Profundity or even in the Scarif system until the dramatic reveal as it escapes from Vader. So the droids appeared in a Yavin hanger and the scene showed ships taking off nearby. In my mind, immediately after their scene a rebel comes up to them and hurriedly urges them onto a nearby shuttle that takes them up to the the Profundity. As far as the time, movies don't show everything in real time. There are moments between moments not shown, so logically, the droids had enough time to make it up the the ship before it left for Scarif. According to lore, the Tantive IV was already inside the Profundity getting some repairs. And as the end of the film showed, the Profundity connected to Tantive IV so the droids only had to get into the Profundity before they left the system, and then plenty of time in hyperspace and during the battle to connect to the Tantive IV.

Leia's cameo is perfectly placed (except for the aforementioned imperfect recreation of her face).

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yora wrote:
...What qualities and elements of the movie make it rank so highly in the regards of a great many people? Is it just the weakness of the competition, or is it considered to be a genuinely great movie?

Well, within this specific segment of the fandom, I can see parallels between Rogue One and the sorts of campaigns we all love to play: stories wrapped around those of the heroes of the main films, where bit parts are shown to have their own exciting arcs to follow, with no script immunity to protect them from death, and only the hope that, if the character does die, it's not all for nothing.

Well said. Not only is it like a RPG adventure where the main characters of the adventure are important to the plot of the films while being just offscreen, but I'm sure that WEG's Rebel Alliance Sourcebook was consulted for inspiration of the SpecForce soldiers in the film.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
VADER: I have traced the Rebel spies to her. Now she is my only link to finding their secret base.

Yora, the original SW opening crawl was just to catch viewers up on the plot so the film could drop you right into the action in medias res. By design, RO is based on the opening crawl of ANH. By design, RO is meant to lead directly into ANH, and it does with only a short hyperspace journey and an exchange of fire in between the two films. This single dialogue line in ANH means that the Rebel spies who stole the Death Star plans during the battle had to die. There was never going to be a Rogue Two. RO told the only story it could tell, a story of sacrifice and hope.

Why do I love RO so much?

ANH is my favorite Star Wars movie. One of the things I love about the RotS and Solo are that they set-up ANH. RO does that too. RotS sets up the Empire, Obi-Wan, Vader, Luke, Leia, and the droids in ANH. Solo sets up Han, Chewie, and the Falcon. RO sets up the Empire, the Rebellion, and the Death Star. These three prequels are enjoyable films in their own right, but they serve the original SW.

As a big fan of ANH, I realize that Vader is not the main villain of the film. Vader is relatively weak in ANH. He looks cool and sounds awesome, but other than that he is pretty much just the lead warrior of the Jedi's enemy clan, with the clichés of being the good samurai's former student and the one who killed Luke's father. Vader is subservient to Tarkin, the true main villain of ANH. But Tarkin's character doesn't have much substance. (ANH is my favorite film but I do realize it is not a perfect piece of art.) I did like the bone Lucas threw of giving Tarkin a cameo at the end of RotS (because it is better than nothing), but RO gives Tarkin a little a more substance. Not a lot, but a little more. He takes over the Death Star from RO's main antagonist, Director Krennic. Maybe Krennic not being your typical Star Wars villain was part of why it didn't feel like Star Wars to you? I thought it was a refreshing change. He was perfect for RO, but only for RO so logically and satisfyingly died in RO, leaving Tarkin firmly in command the Death Star and Vader responsible for the remaining Rebel problem and tracking down the plans.

Being such a fan of ANH, which has the single greatest film climactic scene of all time, it was a real nice touch to put Red Leader and Gold Leader into the film, using unused footage from ANH (the audio cameo of Wedge was a nice touch too). There is a nostalgia factor as RO has a lot of 70s hairstyles and mustaches.

There are some incongruities between RO and ANH, but that is really more of a symptom of the incongruities of ANH with all the sequels. In the other movies released after ANH, Vader is more powerful, he Luke's father, and he's eventually revealed to the chosen one who fulfilled a prophecy and destroyed the Sith (until TRoS which is the most incongruent film of them all). RO finds a good balance between tying into the rest of the saga and tying into ANH. There is some lore and fan explanations to explain the remaining little differences, like Vader's power level. Of course, these may not be convincing if you don't care for the movie anyway, so sure, you have to want to resolve everything for it to work for you.

I think I remember someone saying they didn't like how the 'Trojan Horse' entrance of Rebels into a shielded Imperial facility in RO is too similar to RotJ. But it is not actually the same thing. In RotJ, it was all a trap the Emperor laid for the Rebels and he expected the Rebels. In RO, no Imperials anywhere in the galaxy know about this Trojan Horse, just like no Trojans expected Achaeans in the original Homer epic. It makes perfect sense to me from a retroactive continuity perspective that Palpatine got the idea for his Endor trap from what happened in RO.

Maybe the fact that there are no Jedi is an issue for you? Well, the Jedi return as Obi-Wan in ANH. In RO, we have a quasi-Jedi character. I've heard no lightsaber duels as something that makes it not seem like Star Wars to some fans, but we do actually have one former Jedi (the chosen one) and lightsaber action as he mows down rebels desperate trying to escape with the plans in the film's climax. More enjoyable than lightsabers vs Snoke's redguards in TLJ.

RO has some great action throughout it. You think RO is a typical war 2010s war movie just made to look like Star Wars. What are some examples of 2010s war movies because I didn't even know that was a film category? Maybe I haven't seen any of them, so I do not see RO in that way. I think I have the exact opposite point of view. I see the Battle of Scarif as inherently Star Wars, like the final battle in RotJ remade (well the space and ground aspects), but a modern film version of Star Wars, and without Ewoks (which I like but would not be appropriate for the tone of RO).

The rest is based mostly on feelings and I don't think I can adequately put into words for anyone else who doesn't feel what I feel. The Battle of Scarif is just... awesome. The music is great. Each main hero sacrifice is emotional and advances the plot, culminating with Jyn and Cassian completing the mission with sense of accomplishment before they die. It is not the end of the mission they planned, but it is still one that keeps hope alive. When the heroes die and the music swells, a lump forms in my throat. I am in tears by the time Vader starts slaying the Alderaanian soldiers to a pure genius piece of scoring that melds Dark Anakin music from RotS and a slowed down Imperial March. The mission to get away with the plans is just so tense. I knew the plans got away before even seeing it the first time, but every time I watch it is edge-of-my-seat drama as the plans get passed from Rebel to Rebel as they all get chopped down one by one. Hurry! Vader's coming!! Hurry!!!

This young women's reactions really speaks to some of the feelings I have watching RO. Note that she is already crying before the part of the film that the video begins at, so there is a culmination of feelings being expressed here.

RO is definitely my favorite of the five Disney films, but my appreciation of RO is not just based on the others not being relatively less appreciated. I truly enjoy RO. Perhaps it was more based on how it tied together with the CT more at first but it has grown into a love all its own. I've seen each CT film well over 100 times in my life, and after watching the 4K CT on Disney+ this year, I decided I am going to give those films a long break. I still love all three of them but I just think I'll enjoy them more after a hiatus from them. Luckily, I can watch RO and enjoy it immensely on its own without watching the rest of the Death Star story in ANH. Screw mafia movies - RO is the best movie ever made where all the main protagonists die. It is definitely different than all of the CT films (and the other SW films) yet I feel it fits just fine into my SWU. Compared to all the other SW films, the ending of RO is most similar to TESB, but I actually love RO a lot more than TESB (which I also love). After I get around to watching TRoS for the first time since it was in the theater, my SW film viewing for the indefinite future will only consist of TPM, RotS, Solo, and RO.
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