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Playable Species List?
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Error
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your take on Hutts as PC's Whill. And the mythology behind it all. An excuse to be a good Hutt PC would to be in legitimate business. Maybe you're a tramp freighter owner/operator and you make your dough hauling plasmaberries...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:

Edit: Classic movies.and I dislike that two head alien in PM annoucer at the Pod races.


I've always wanted someone to stat that out.. I can't see that race in the aliens collection.


I just found it in the D20 to D6 Aliens conversion, on page 155. They're called Troigs and while their sourcebook isn't cited, I'll cut and paste their stats here:

Troig
Home Planet: Pollillus
Attribute Dice: 12D
DEXTERITY 1D/3D+2
KNOWLEDGE 1D+1/4D
MECHANICAL 1D+1/4D
PERCEPTION 2D+1/5D
STRENGTH 1D/3D+2
TECHNICAL 1D/3D+2
Special Abilities:
Ambidexterity: Troigs are naturally ambidextrous, and suffer no off-hand penalties.
Hard to Surprise: Because a Troig’s heads are constantly looking out for one another, they are difficult to surprise. As such, they gain a +1D bonus to all search skill checks to detect ambushes.
Multitasking: Due to the fact that their two heads share two arms, Troigs can do two things at once and suffer no penalties. Each head performs separate actions in combat, as well. The two heads can combine actions, as well (refer to the rules for combined actions, SWD6, pages 82-83).
Two Heads: All Troigs have at least two heads, and each head houses a separate mind and personality. The two heads share a limited form of telepathy, and they can understand one another perfectly even if one is speaking a language the other does not know.
Move: 10/12
Size: 1.9-2 meters


Not bad. Though since the RAW doesn't list any penalty for off hand use, that "naturally ambidextrous" is meaningless.
Also, with the '2 minds' are they harder to influence through the force? What of skills like Con, and similar??

Whill wrote:
I used to be opposed to Ewoks PCs on the basis that primitive characters should have less than 1D in Technical and Knowledge, and I just couldn't imagine an 18D Ewok. But the idea of a cute little character that is always being underestimated grew on me, so now I have Ewoks with the caveat that their background must have included leaving Endor for a few years to be somewhat acclimated to galactic civilization (and thus no longer truly primitive). A non-Force-sensitive Ewok's attributes will be exactly the maximums according to my stats (so there is only one possible template stat-wise for non-Force Ewoks). They still seem kind of far-fetched but Ewok PCs are more for comedy.


Most of the people i have ever seen ask about playing one were kids (9-14 age), and were all doing so for games set LONG before RotJ time frame.. Now i can possibly see a game set AFTER return of the Jedi where Ewoks might be available, after the rebellion gets them off planet. But prior to that, no dice.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
I like your take on Hutts as PC's Whill. And the mythology behind it all. An excuse to be a good Hutt PC would to be in legitimate business. Maybe you're a tramp freighter owner/operator and you make your dough hauling plasmaberries...

Exactly. And thanks!

EDIT: The Hutt discussion continues here: Can you imagine a game with PC Hutts?



garhkal wrote:
Most of the people i have ever seen ask about playing one were kids (9-14 age), and were all doing so for games set LONG before RotJ time frame.. Now i can possibly see a game set AFTER return of the Jedi where Ewoks might be available, after the rebellion gets them off planet. But prior to that, no dice.

I used to feel that way too but relented. The original idea was that the moon of Endor was visited by Republic Scouts long ago. With local starship navigational hazards and the moon with multiple sentient species at a primitive level of development, the Republic declared the system off limits with the moon as a sort of nature preserve in the spirit of Star Trek's prime directive, thus "The Sanctuary Moon". That doesn't mean that ships never violated that and landed there because there was no one around to enforce that rule. And apparently the system pulled hyperspace travellers off course and they have to land somewhere habitable to repair their ships. With that set-up, there would be occasional opportunities for sentients to leave the moon. In fact there were two members of another sentient species from that moon in Jabba's palace in RotJ. It's part of the EU and the new canon! If those Yuzzums got off the moon before RotJ then some Ewoks could too, like in the Ewok templates.

In my campaign with my son, he will play an extraordinary adolescent Ewok. An Imperial Scientist was sent to Endor to capture some of the natives for study because it has been chosen as a secret construction site for the second Death Star. When the PC was a little boy, the scientist kidnaps the PC's father (the chieftain of their tribe), his father's Yuzzum friend and a Dulok. Years later, his father's Yuzzum friend returns explaining that he and his father had escaped the scientist after having horrible experiments performed on them but they got separated. The Yuzzum had joined a freighter crew but got homesick so asked to be taken home. The PC leaves Endor with freighter captain and joins the crew as an excuse to travel around the galaxy because he wants to find his father, out there somewhere if he's still alive.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, one could consider the Ewoks: Battle for Endor and Caravan of Courage movies. It seems that the idea that Endor wasn't all that isolated after all can be backed up with those two, at least.

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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do have a Sullastan in our group. So height isn't requirement. : ) And a friend is going to create a Muza Force sensitive so Im going to use the Ewok template for the primative template.

Fwiw I dislike Ettins too!
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, on the topic of Ewoks, we know that 3P0 could talk to them, making it likely that the species was known off-world... the other option is that the Rebels knew enough about them to load 3P0 with an otherwise barely-known language.

My solution is a bit different than Whills. Ewoks can have any attributes in their range, but the Primitive trait limits what they can default to... no matter how Technical your ewok, he can't default to Technical for Droid repair until he's spent some time out in the world. Someone else, part of galactic society, can default to it, because they have exposure to it (through everything from Saturday morning cartoons to school to practical experience), but the Ewok can't. He CAN default to things like First Aid and Primitive Construction.

I don't have hard and fast rules on when defaulting becomes available, but it's often easier to just spend some CP to learn it.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
So, on the topic of Ewoks, we know that 3P0 could talk to them, making it likely that the species was known off-world... the other option is that the Rebels knew enough about them to load 3P0 with an otherwise barely-known language.


The alternative, as shown in one of the Legacy of the Force novels, is that C-3PO is just that awesome at language analysis and translation. The scene I'm talking about has two Sith of the Lost Tribe of the Sith (a Sith Lord and his teenage daughter who is essentially a Padawan) onboard Luke Skywalker's ship, who decide to talk to each other in Sith, knowing that Luke is recording their conversation but figure that Luke won't be able to translate their language. Luke of course gives the recording to C-3PO and because C-3PO is just that Awesome By Analysis (6 million forms of communication, remember?), he manages to translate the Sith language despite never having heard it before just from related words to other languages. I can't help but think that in RotJ C-3PO managed to do the same thing with the Ewoks (he did mention a "primitive dialect," after all).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
My solution is a bit different than Whills. Ewoks can have any attributes in their range, but the Primitive trait limits what they can default to... no matter how Technical your ewok, he can't default to Technical for Droid repair until he's spent some time out in the world. Someone else, part of galactic society, can default to it, because they have exposure to it (through everything from Saturday morning cartoons to school to practical experience), but the Ewok can't. He CAN default to things like First Aid and Primitive Construction.

I don't have hard and fast rules on when defaulting becomes available, but it's often easier to just spend some CP to learn it.

The only difference with my rule is that I don't run PCs during the primitive-to-galactic-acclimation phase. My system has Ewok PCs start out after everything is defaulted to the attribute, like any other character. If your system works for you, then great. I would be concerned about game balance when the character is still primitive and during the acclimation. Maybe I am overly concerned. But with my way, I don't have to worry about it. NPCs in my game can still of course be primitive, and I have a system for that...
    0D Attributes:
    Ewoks are a primitive sapient species, and as such most NPCs will have attribute values of 0D, 0D+1 or 0D+2 for Knowledge, Mechanical and Technical. An attribute value of 0D means the character cannot have or use any skills of that attribute. An attribute value of 0D+1 means that the character may have select skills at 1D or higher but do not normally have access to non-listed skills of these attributes. An attribute value of 0D+2 mean that the character may have select skills at 1D or higher and may occasionally perform simple tasks of non-listed skills of these attributes, the circumstances of which as determined by the GM. Characters with 1D or higher in these three attributes are not completely primitive and have some level of familiarity with the galaxy at large.
And even using the other attributes that have 1D or higher, primitive NPCs might still have a learning curve with using unfamiliar technologies, but I don't need a codified system for that since primitive characters are only NPCs. In my game all PCs have exactly 18D in attributes with no less than 2D in any attribute (partially an anti-min/maxing feature). 2D is also the max value for Ewok Knowledge Technical in my game. That's already a big stretch as it is, but that is where my primitive species and PC stat ranges meet in the middle. And in my game 2D+1 is the average human attribute value so 2D is slightly under human average.

Sutehp wrote:
C-3PO is just that Awesome By Analysis (6 million forms of communication, remember?), he manages to translate the Sith language despite never having heard it before just from related words to other languages. I can't help but think that in RotJ C-3PO managed to do the same thing with the Ewoks (he did mention a "primitive dialect," after all).

I'm down with all that, and the game system seems to adequately represent that. With the Language skill, a high enough roll can understand anything in any language. So not only is Threepio fluent in over 6 million forms of communications (which means his player wouldn't usually have to even roll to understand something), he would have a very high ability to understand anything he's not already fluent in. After so many successful rolls of a high enough difficulty to understand a language, then he adds that language to the list of 6 million language fluencies.

Zarn wrote:
Also, one could consider the Ewoks: Battle for Endor and Caravan of Courage movies. It seems that the idea that Endor wasn't all that isolated after all can be backed up with those two, at least.
MrNexx wrote:
So, on the topic of Ewoks, we know that 3P0 could talk to them, making it likely that the species was known off-world... the other option is that the Rebels knew enough about them to load 3P0 with an otherwise barely-known language.

I'm working on a general Language thread post that goes into these things. I choose to interpret Threepio's statement about Ewoks using a most peculiar dialect to mean that it is an unknown dialect of a language he knows. That Language is Endorian, and it is a general language that all the sentient species of Endor speak but perhaps with sometimes highly divergent dialects. How any version of this language is even known out in the galaxy for Threepio to know is through Yuzzum leaving Endor over the centuries. Maybe some of the "Marauders" species landed without crashing long ago and captured a whole tribe of Yuzzum to use as slaves and then left because the system didn't seem to have anything else of value to them. Maybe the Yuzzum slaves rebelled against their masters, a diaspora occurred, and their language became one of the six million forms of communication. In my SWU, Ewokese is a dialect of Endorian.

The live action Ewok movies and even the cartoon series are not strictly in my personal canon, but alternate versions of those do exist in my SWU. I agree that the sanctuary moon may not be so completely isolated, but for some reason I've always felt RotJ works best for me if the Rebels have never seen or heard of Ewoks before. Maybe Luke had a dream or premonition about the mission before going and that is where his urging Han to give up his gun and not fight them came out of, some intuition that the Ewoks may eventually help them. I think Luke having a Force premonition advising him to not let the Rebels camouflage Threepio is the only rational explanation as to why they didn't camouflage this shiney gold guy - Luke somehow knew that would somehow be needed for victory in the mission.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem with the 0D designation is the things for which they won't have 0D... Sure, they won't have Droid Repair, but they're perfectly capable of First Aid. They won't have much in the way of Alien Species or Streetwise, but there's no reason they can't have dice in Cultures, Language, Intimidation, and Survival... even topics of Scholar and Planetary Systems.

If it works for you, fine, but the attributes are fairly broad, as are a lot of the skills.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
0D Attributes:
Ewoks are a primitive sapient species, and as such most NPCs will have attribute values of 0D, 0D+1 or 0D+2 for Knowledge, Mechanical and Technical. An attribute value of 0D means the character cannot have or use any skills of that attribute. An attribute value of 0D+1 means that the character may have select skills at 1D or higher but do not normally have access to non-listed skills of these attributes. An attribute value of 0D+2 mean that the character may have select skills at 1D or higher and may occasionally perform simple tasks of non-listed skills of these attributes, the circumstances of which as determined by the GM. Characters with 1D or higher in these three attributes are not completely primitive and have some level of familiarity with the galaxy at large.

MrNexx wrote:
My problem with the 0D designation is the things for which they won't have 0D... Sure, they won't have Droid Repair, but they're perfectly capable of First Aid. They won't have much in the way of Alien Species or Streetwise, but there's no reason they can't have dice in Cultures, Language, Intimidation, and Survival... even topics of Scholar and Planetary Systems.

If it works for you, fine, but the attributes are fairly broad, as are a lot of the skills.

OK MrNexx, but you're basing that on incomplete information...

Ewoks
Attribute Dice: 7D

Average___ . Min/Max_
DEX: 2D ...... 1D/4D
KNO: 0D+1 . 0D+1/2D
MEC: 0D+2 . 0D+1/3D
PER: 2D ...... 1D/3D+2
STR: 2D ...... 1D/3D+1
TEC: 0D ...... 0D/2D

Technical is really the only thing I would give most Ewok NPCs a flat 0D in. In my game Primitive Construction is a Mechanical skill that Ewoks use to build and repair primitive treehouse villages, mechanical devices, forest traps, and personal weapons. In my game, First Aid is a Knowledge skill. Ewoks on Endor would not need Technical for anything in my game.

Remember, 0D+1 allows characters to have skills and use those skills. 0D+2 allows characters to have skills and also default in some situations, like when Paploo jumped on the speeder bike. At some time before that, Paploo may have observed speeder bikes in use so had enough familiarity to take off and accomplish what he did, probably using some CPs along the way. Intimidation is a Perception skill in my game.

Sentient NPCs that might have 0D attributes (like children and primitives) appear so very rarely in my game that all this almost never comes into play. But it's there just in case.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus unless you allow players to make UP their own templates, or use the flat out "ewok" template from the 2e base book (i can't remember if 2e revised had an ewok template) that low of an attribute spread, might not LET ewoks take any other template out there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Ewoks
Attribute Dice: 7D

Average___ . Min/Max_
DEX: 2D ...... 1D/4D
KNO: 0D+1 . 0D+1/2D
MEC: 0D+2 . 0D+1/3D
PER: 2D ...... 1D/3D+2
STR: 2D ...... 1D/3D+1
TEC: 0D ...... 0D/2D

garhkal wrote:
Plus unless you allow players to make UP their own templates, or use the flat out "ewok" template from the 2e base book (i can't remember if 2e revised had an ewok template) that low of an attribute spread, might not LET ewoks take any other template out there.

If you add up my maximum attribute values up there, you'll see that is 18D exactly. That IS my non-Force-sensitive Ewok template. The only way to have different values than that would be to be Force-sensitive which would take 1D or more from attributes so a player would have a little lower attribute values when creating a template (except for in Knowledge and Technical because all PCs in my game have a minimum attribute of 2D, so Ewok PCs are already at their min and max for those two attributes).
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bobenhotep
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My species list has been pretty easy so far. I run games for my kids who learned how to game by playing 5e D&D. Because of that, they are used to having a fairly narrow list of PC species. They have stuck to the stuff in the rulebook with Twi'leks, Humans, Wookiees, and Rodians being the favorites so far. The Revwien protocol droid was the weirdest thing we had so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

If you add up my maximum attribute values up there, you'll see that is 18D exactly. That IS my non-Force-sensitive Ewok template. The only way to have different values than that would be to be Force-sensitive which would take 1D or more from attributes so a player would have a little lower attribute values when creating a template (except for in Knowledge and Technical because all PCs in my game have a minimum attribute of 2D, so Ewok PCs are already at their min and max for those two attributes).


So the max values of the min-max list IS a template??
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Whill wrote:
If you add up my maximum attribute values up there, you'll see that is 18D exactly. That IS my non-Force-sensitive Ewok template. The only way to have different values than that would be to be Force-sensitive which would take 1D or more from attributes so a player would have a little lower attribute values when creating a template (except for in Knowledge and Technical because all PCs in my game have a minimum attribute of 2D, so Ewok PCs are already at their min and max for those two attributes).

So the max values of the min-max list IS a template??

In the case of Ewoks in my game, yes. Remember the attribute ranges apply to the species as a whole so that includes NPCs, and most of them will not have 18D in attributes. For any species that can be PCs, the upper end of the attribute ranges has to at least be 18D because in my game all PCs have exactly 18D. Before I allowed Ewok PCs, my species attribute maximums didn't even add up to 18D (I think they were about 15D). But after I warmed to the idea of allowing Ewoks to be PCs, I had to raise some of my maximums with the caveat that any 'primitive' species PC must have some minimal acclimation to galactic civilization in their background. Ewok PCs are some of the most abled Ewoks in the galaxy!

bobenhotep wrote:
My species list has been pretty easy so far. I run games for my kids who learned how to game by playing 5e D&D. Because of that, they are used to having a fairly narrow list of PC species. They have stuck to the stuff in the rulebook with Twi'leks, Humans, Wookiees, and Rodians being the favorites so far.

Cool. When I had a smaller species list, I kept getting players that wanted to play something else and be disappointed if I didn't let them. So I've greatly expanded my lists. The more options they have, the less likely they'll want to go off list.

bobenhotep wrote:
The Revwien protocol droid was the weirdest thing we had so far.

That's very interesting. Please tell us more about this character!
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