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Playable Species List?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing about Ewoks gallivanting around the galaxy before the Battle of Endor that really annoys me and that people in favor of this seem to forget is that the Ewoks are a species that doesn't have space travel. That means that the only way an Ewok is going to get offworld is if he somehow winds up aboard a spaceship that is visiting Endor. But why would anyone go anywhere near Endor, let alone land there? It's in the @ss-end of nowhere on the edge of Wild Space in the Outer Rim. Hell, the reason the Empire built the Second Death Star there was because it was the @ss-end of nowhere that was isolated from the rest of the galaxy so no one could accidentally stumble upon it. So even before the Empire got there, Endor is going to have very few ships landing on it, which cuts down enormously on the chances of an Ewok somehow stumbling onto a starship and being taken away from Endor. It's simple probability. Only a few ships will land on Endor at all and only a fraction of those ships will have the possibility of carrying away an Ewok. Knowing all this, how many Ewoks will actually make it off Endor? Two? Three? A half-dozen at most? (And that last estimate is being exceptionally generous.)

This is why discussing Ewoks as a playable race before the Battle of Endor strikes me as so ludicrous. Sure, each campaign can make its own decision about whether a player can roll an Ewok before Endor, but unless they're deliberately ignoring canon (which is always an option that each campaign can exercise), that Ewok PC is likely going to be the only Ewok out and about in the galaxy. And even if that Ewok is one of only an extremely tiny handful of Ewoks walking the galaxy, what are the chances that any two of those Ewoks will ever run into each other? Gawds, that would be a Contrived Coincidence worthy of the Force!

Oh, wait.... Razz

But yeah, any Ewoks in the galaxy are going to be so few in number that the galaxy at large isn't going to know of their existence, never mind just the Rebels.

Hell, Jawas and Sand People would have a far better chance to wander the galaxy than Ewoks. And the reason for that is because, while Tatooine may be a backwater planet, it still has more than enough interstellar commerce to enable a Jawa or a Sand Person opportunities to get offworld. The reason they don't go offworld is because they're low tech (at least in the case of the Sand People; the Jawas are high-tech tinkerers) tribalists with no interest in leaving Tatooine and have a high instinct/cultural impulse to aid the tribe rather than act on individual impulses. While the Ewoks may be physically restrained from leaving Endor; the Jawas and the Tusken Raiders have a cultural restraint preventing them from going off world. Sure, an individual Jawa (or even more rarely, a Tusken Raider) might individually decide to go offworld, but that individual is going to go against a huge tribal/cultural taboo to go off on their own. Remember, Jawas and Sand People have a huge instinct to find safety in numbers, so maverick individuals with an interstellar wanderlust are going to be exceptionally rare.

TL;DR: Almost all Ewoks won't get off Endor because they don't get the opportunity, almost all Jawas and Sand People don't get off Tatooine because they don't wanna go.

Whill wrote:
A cantina in garhkal's SWU...

Freighter Captain: I was beginning to think you weren't going to make it.
Rebel Agent: I ran into some old friends.
Captain: I leave for Corellia tonight.
Rebel: Good. I'll bring the package to you at 1900.
Captain: And payment.
Rebel: Of course. Thanks for the drink. (starts to get-up)
Captain: Whoa, hold on there. I want to tell you about this new sentient species I encountered the other day.
Rebel: What?
Captain: He was the cutest little thing.
Rebel: Look, I've got to...
Captain: Looked just like my granddaughter's teddy bear, but he was about as half as tall as we are. He was partially covered with clothes and carried primitive weapons, but definitely sentient.
Rebel: Captain, I'll just...
Captain: What's the rush? What's the point of cargo transport and rebellion if we don't stop and talk about the new species we've seen?
Stormtroopers: It's him! Blast them!

Rolling Eyes


I lol'ed at this. Laughing
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

A cantina in garhkal's SWU...

Freighter Captain: I was beginning to think you weren't going to make it.
Rebel Agent: I ran into some old friends.
Captain: I leave for Corellia tonight.
Rebel: Good. I'll bring the package to you at 1900.
Captain: And payment.
Rebel: Of course. Thanks for the drink. (starts to get-up)
Captain: Whoa, hold on there. I want to tell you about this new sentient species I encountered the other day.
Rebel: What?
Captain: He was the cutest little thing.
Rebel: Look, I've got to...
Captain: Looked just like my granddaughter's teddy bear, but he was about as half as tall as we are. He was partially covered with clothes and carried primitive weapons, but definitely sentient.
Rebel: Captain, I'll just...
Captain: What's the rush? What's the point of cargo transport and rebellion if we don't stop and talk about the new species we've seen?
Stormtroopers: It's him! Blast them!

Rolling Eyes


LOL. That gave me a laugh!

Sutehp wrote:
The thing about Ewoks gallivanting around the galaxy before the Battle of Endor that really annoys me and that people in favor of this seem to forget is that the Ewoks are a species that doesn't have space travel. That means that the only way an Ewok is going to get offworld is if he somehow winds up aboard a spaceship that is visiting Endor. But why would anyone go anywhere near Endor, let alone land there? It's in the @ss-end of nowhere on the edge of Wild Space in the Outer Rim. Hell, the reason the Empire built the Second Death Star there was because it was the @ss-end of nowhere that was isolated from the rest of the galaxy so no one could accidentally stumble upon it. So even before the Empire got there, Endor is going to have very few ships landing on it, which cuts down enormously on the chances of an Ewok somehow stumbling onto a starship and being taken away from Endor. It's simple probability. Only a few ships will land on Endor at all and only a fraction of those ships will have the possibility of carrying away an Ewok. Knowing all this, how many Ewoks will actually make it off Endor? Two? Three? A half-dozen at most? (And that last estimate is being exceptionally generous.)


My sentiments exactly. Plus how LONG was the DS 2 being constructed over Endor? That alone would have put a blocker on any ships coming in, and "accidentally" picking up an Ewok..
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once posted this in another thread, but, I like the idea of having the following as a sort of retro-inspired (all-ANH), Tatooine-based short-list of allowed playable species: Human, Aqualish, Droid, Ithorian, Rodian, Snivvian, Wookiee, Jawa, and Sand People, though it is true these last two races are unlikely to join a spacefaring group.



Of course there would have to be two variants of Sniivian: Tall and Short.



I also really like the Nimbanese—these guys were used for Jabba the Hut’s race in the 70s comics, and WEG later made into major henchmen of the slug-like Hutts. I think I mainly have them in mind as nemeses, but, if someone wanted to make a gangster character, I would suggest these.



From ESB we have Yoda’s Species, which I would be totally a-ok with opening up to players. Of the RotJ races, I only really like Mon Calamari. From HttE, I like Bothans and Noghri. It is certainly true, though, that Noghri should not be a playable race in your standard Rebellion-era non-evil group. From TPM, I like Neimoidians (or ANH’s Duros; there doesn’t seem to be a big difference; but the TPM guys are obviously much more fleshed out).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
I once posted this in another thread, but, I like the idea of having the following as a sort of retro-inspired (all-ANH), Tatooine-based short-list of allowed playable species: Human, Aqualish, Droid, Ithorian, Rodian, Snivvian, Wookiee, Jawa, and Sand People, though it is true these last two races are unlikely to join a spacefaring group.



...From ESB we have Yoda’s Species, which I would be totally a-ok with opening up to players. Of the RotJ races, I only really like Mon Calamari

I think the vintage action figure centered player species list is awesome!

Quote:
Of course there would have to be two variants of Sniivian: Tall and Short...


I'm a proud owner of the rare Blue Snaggletooth. That and a 1979 Boba Fett are the only two vintage figures I have left.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:

From ESB we have Yoda’s Species, which I would be totally a-ok with opening up to players..


But where are you getting racial stats/info for that race from? None officially (or even fan made iirc) exist..
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Ewok PCs Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
The thing about Ewoks gallivanting around the galaxy before the Battle of Endor that really annoys me and that people in favor of this seem to forget is that the Ewoks are a species that doesn't have space travel. That means that the only way an Ewok is going to get offworld is if he somehow winds up aboard a spaceship that is visiting Endor. But why would anyone go anywhere near Endor, let alone land there? It's in the @ss-end of nowhere on the edge of Wild Space in the Outer Rim. Hell, the reason the Empire built the Second Death Star there was because it was the @ss-end of nowhere that was isolated from the rest of the galaxy so no one could accidentally stumble upon it. So even before the Empire got there, Endor is going to have very few ships landing on it, which cuts down enormously on the chances of an Ewok somehow stumbling onto a starship and being taken away from Endor. It's simple probability. Only a few ships will land on Endor at all and only a fraction of those ships will have the possibility of carrying away an Ewok. Knowing all this, how many Ewoks will actually make it off Endor? Two? Three? A half-dozen at most? (And that last estimate is being exceptionally generous.)

This is why discussing Ewoks as a playable race before the Battle of Endor strikes me as so ludicrous. Sure, each campaign can make its own decision about whether a player can roll an Ewok before Endor, but unless they're deliberately ignoring canon (which is always an option that each campaign can exercise), that Ewok PC is likely going to be the only Ewok out and about in the galaxy. And even if that Ewok is one of only an extremely tiny handful of Ewoks walking the galaxy, what are the chances that any two of those Ewoks will ever run into each other?

...But yeah, any Ewoks in the galaxy are going to be so few in number that the galaxy at large isn't going to know of their existence, never mind just the Rebels.

Having Ewok as an available player species for campaigns set before RotJ doesn't mean there are going to be any Ewok PCs. Ewok could never be chosen by a player, and then you could have 0 Ewoks out in the galaxy. IF a player does choose to play one, then your SW galaxy doesn't have to have more than 1 lone Ewok adventuring through the galaxy. What are the odds that a second player is going to choose to play an Ewok in the same campaign universe? Astronomically slim. And even if there are two Ewok PCs before RotJ in the same campaign universe, I'm not sure what the point is of mentioning the odds of the two Ewok PCs meeting each other. Unless the two Ewok PCs are in the same campaign (in which case they likely left Endor together), the two Ewok PCs would never have to come together.

As far as how it is possible for Ewoks to leave, that has been addressed in-universe. The area of space near the Endor system has navigational hazards that cause ships to go off course and get pulled out of hyperspace. If you need to set down somewhere to get your bearings, gather supplies, effect repairs, you are going to scan for habitable worlds and find the Forest Moon. Due to the hyperspace hazards and the Forest Moon having primitive but sentient life, the old Republic labeled the world the Sanctuary Moon and made the Endor system off limits in the spirit of a nature reserve/Prime Directive sort of thing. But it is so out of the way that restriction was hardly enforced. Some unscrupulous ship captains may risk the space hazards to go to Endor to get slaves, before the Empire came.

In my SWU there are at least four sentient species living on the Forest Moon. The Yuzzums (from film canon), Ewoks (film canon) and Duloks (published canon) are indigenous to the moon (sharing a common ancestor many millions of years ago), while a Sanyassan population (live-action EU) resulted from a ship that crash landed, stranding them there. The three indigenous species speak dialects of the same language, Endorian. Thousands of years ago, a population of Yuzzums had been successfully removed from the system as slaves by Sanyassan Marauders. The slaves overthrew their masters but never returned home, surviving for a few hundred years before dying off, thus making it possible for translator droids to be programmed to know a form of Endorian (but not the "very primitive dialect" of the Ewoks).

In canon, the first Death Star was mostly constructed above Geonosis, but after the hyperdrive was functional it was moved to Scarif where it was completed. The second Death Star may have also been started somewhere else and moved to Endor at any time its hyperdrive was installed and the planetside shield generator was operational. In my SWU Endor was scouted out several years before ANH as a possible large-scale construction site because it was so out of the way and technically forbidden already, so the Empire could decide to start enforcing that travel restriction under the guise of protecting the nature reserve and galactic travellers from the hazards.

In my SWU, there are two known Ewoks who have left the planet before RotJ. A few years before ANH, an Imperial scientist on a scouting mission abducted an Ewok chieftain, his Yuzzum friend, and their Dulok enemy for study to ensure they would be no threat to the Empire's potential future operations there. He began to perform horrible experiments on them which killed the Dulok. The Ewok and the Yuzzum escaped but got separated. To hide his failure from the Emperor, the Imperial scientist forged results and discreetly put out outlaw bounties on the Endorians. The Yuzzum joined a freighter crew and after a couple years got homesick so asked his captain to be taken home. His captain owed him his life so obliged in 1 BBY. While on Endor the freighter captain and Yuzzum encountered the Ewok chieftain's son and told him the tale of their escape from the Imperial scientist. The Ewok son wanted to find his father and took the Yuzzum's place in the captain's crew. He hopes that in travelling around the galaxy in a tramp freighter, he will be able to find his father. It's a gigantic galaxy and virtually impossible endeavor, but he's a primitive Ewok kid so doesn't understand these things.

By three years later in 2 ABY, the Ewok chieftain's son (the Ewok PC) has learned the human language and become better acclimated to galactic society. Just when he begins to lose hope in his father quest, he gets his first lead on his father's whereabouts and realizes his own Force sensitivity. It will take him about three more years to find his father and return to Endor together.

So the first Ewok and Yuzzum to leave were taken from Endor by an Imperial scouting mission and later escaped from the Empire. When the Yuzzum had a ship return him to Endor, the second Ewok had an opportunity to leave on that same ship, and all this is before there were any Imperial forces stationed there and construction project in the works (before the first Death Star was even completed). I don't know when the Empire began construction on the shield generator on Endor, but it it is likely sometimes after ANH (That detail isn't important to me because there are no Ewoks leaving Endor after ANH.)

For the WEG SW RPG, does all that really sound so ludicrous? (If there is ever another Ewok PC before RotJ, I'll have to contrive something else.)
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Falconer wrote:
From ESB we have Yoda’s Species, which I would be totally a-ok with opening up to players..

But where are you getting racial stats/info for that race from? None officially (or even fan made iirc) exist..

The Alien Student of the Force template seems perfect for it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Ewok PCs Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
But it is so out of the way that restriction was hardly enforced. Some unscrupulous ship captains may risk the space hazards to go to Endor to get slaves, before the Empire came.


Where are you getting that info from? I never read anything indicating the Endor system was full of navigational hazards. Let alone it was set up as a preserve of sorts, or that slavers knew about the ewoks..

Whill wrote:
The Yuzzums (from film canon), Ewoks (film canon) and Duloks (published canon)


Again, where you getting that from? Which film(s) show Yuzzums on endor, and what published canon do the duloks come from?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Ewok PCs Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Whill wrote:
But it is so out of the way that restriction was hardly enforced. Some unscrupulous ship captains may risk the space hazards to go to Endor to get slaves, before the Empire came.


Where are you getting that info from? I never read anything indicating the Endor system was full of navigational hazards. Let alone it was set up as a preserve of sorts, or that slavers knew about the ewoks..

Whill wrote:
The Yuzzums (from film canon), Ewoks (film canon) and Duloks (published canon)


Again, where you getting that from? Which film(s) show Yuzzums on endor, and what published canon do the duloks come from?


Let me Wookiepedia That For You....

Yuzzums appeared in Return of the Jedi

Duloks are from the WOTC Rebellion Era sourcebook.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Endor Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Whill wrote:
...But it is so out of the way that restriction was hardly enforced. Some unscrupulous ship captains may risk the space hazards to go to Endor to get slaves, before the Empire came.

Where are you getting that info from? I never read anything indicating the Endor system was full of navigational hazards. Let alone it was set up as a preserve of sorts, or that slavers knew about the ewoks..
MrNexx wrote:
Let me Wookiepedia That For You....

Seriously, garhkal, Wookieepedia is your friend. You should be able to access it anywhere you access the Rancor Pit. Save it in your favorites/bookmarks. It has information on books you have read, and it even has info on books you haven't read too!

Wookieepedia wrote:
Endor was set aside as a protected nature reserve during the Galactic Republic, giving it the name Sanctuary Moon. Few spacers had ever heard of Endor, let alone visited the moon. Of those who had, there were two types: those who continued on their way, not wanting to waste their time on such an unimportant puffball of a moon and those who had crash-landed in the forests due to the stellar anomalies, such as the Endor Gate black hole, in the area. These travelers were forced to scrabble for food and shelter along with the natives. As ships disappeared in the region, the Endor moon earned a reputation as a "desert island in space," and was usually given a wide berth.

Check out Wookieepedia for their sources. The Emperor did call it "the Sanctuary Moon" in the movie.

And my sentence you quoted above regarding slaves said "may" so that was conjecture on my part. It ties into my SWU's explanation in the same post for how Threepio knew a less primitive version of the Ewok language.

garhkal wrote:
Whill wrote:
The Yuzzums (from film canon), Ewoks (film canon) and Duloks (published canon)

Again, where you getting that from? Which film(s) show Yuzzums on endor...?

The films didn't show Yuzzums on Endor, but the original version of RotJ had one in the background in Jabba's palace and it was established that his species is from Endor. The RotJ Special Edition added a CG Yuzzum to Jabba's house band (so now there are two Yuzzums in that movie), and you can read about him and how he left Endor in WEG's Star Wars Trilogy Sourcebook, Special Edition.

garhkal wrote:
...and what published canon do the duloks come from?
MrNexx wrote:
Duloks are from the WOTC Rebellion Era sourcebook.

Actually that would be an EU source. Duloks were canonized in Ultimate Star Wars, the 2015 canon reference book that actually re-canonized a lot of EU continuity (but overall is a pretty lame reference book). It also canonized the Gorax species, that giant from the Ewok TV movie, which is the explanation for why the Ewoks had all those traps they used on AT-STs in the Battle of Endor. I'll canonize the Gorax in my SWU for that reason, but they won't be any taller than AT-STs (9m) in my world. (The 30m tall Gorax is just a "tall tale" among Ewoks.)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never see/read that spec edition Trilogy sourcebook. And as for Wookie.. Just like the Wikipedia site it is based off of, just cause it says so, does not automatically make it so..
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Never see/read that spec edition Trilogy sourcebook. And as for Wookie.. Just like the Wikipedia site it is based off of, just cause it says so, does not automatically make it so..


Which is why you check the footnotes. Pretty much everything there is sourced... as in, they will tell you where they found the information, and in what books, movies, or other sources that information was obtained. They may not do a full citation (CMS4lyf), but they'll at least tell you what's going on.

Seriously. Folks who dismiss Wikipedia (and Wookiepedia) out of hand simply haven't looked at how thorough they are. I mean, they're Star Wars nerds. The only people more interested in proving their mastery of arcane minutiae of their chosen fandom are those b@st@rd* Whovians.


No, I don't really think Whovians are b@st@rd*. But it amuses me.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
The only people more interested in proving their mastery of arcane minutiae of their chosen fandom are those b@st@rd* Whovians.


No, I don't really think Whovians are b@st@rd*. But it amuses me.


I was about to object until I quoted this and saw the white text (which I changed to red here). Then I lol'ed.

My best friend is a Whovian. I try not to hold that against him. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
The only people more interested in proving their mastery of arcane minutiae of their chosen fandom are those b@st@rd* Whovians.


No, I don't really think Whovians are b@st@rd*. But it amuses me.


I was about to object until I quoted this and saw the white text (which I changed to red here). Then I lol'ed.

My best friend is a Whovian. I try not to hold that against him. Mr. Green

I have lots of friends who are... I was tempted to put Star Trek but was... "Nah, that's too cliche." Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
The only people more interested in proving their mastery of arcane minutiae of their chosen fandom are those b@st@rd* Whovians.


No, I don't really think Whovians are b@st@rd*. But it amuses me.


I was about to object until I quoted this and saw the white text (which I changed to red here). Then I lol'ed.

My best friend is a Whovian. I try not to hold that against him. Mr. Green

I have lots of friends who are... I was tempted to put Star Trek but was... "Nah, that's too cliche." Wink


*cough*

*carefully hides models of both the USS Enterprise and the TARDIS, covers up a Star Trek technical manual with a Star Wars equivalent*

>.>

<.<

Yes, both of those groups are terrible, terrible people.
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