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Firearms and force users
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, that brings up a good point about the pre-lightsaber Jedi:

There is video footage of a Katana slicing bullets in half. That is a "primitive" weapon that, in the hands of a Jedi, could defend against bullets. I know its off topic, but kind of a tangent at least.

It could be reasoned that the Jedi swords of old were made from some special metal or had some force-based augmentation that allows them to be more or less indestructible whole the Jedi wields it, all while using his Jedi reflexes to slice bullets out of the air (kinda like Wade in the first Wolverine movie).

Anyway, ifthe alter thing doesnt quite capture the "Jedi" flavor, perhaps something like this would.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

As for silencing... is that a houserule? We've used silencers on blasters in our games before, so...


Its from Rules of Engagement. You can get a silencer for the slug throwers (firearms), but not for blasters..

Naaman wrote:
As for damage, again, there are always means by which to make a blaster even more powerful (like having AP blaster ammo should the GM decide to allow this for either blasters or slugthrowers).


AP Blaster ammo?? What the hell is that.?!?

Naaman wrote:
I think it comes down to two camps, more or less: those who think Jedi are too powerful, and those who dont. At our table, the Jedi code all by itself has always been enough to dissuade anyone but me from even being interested in playing one. How's that for balance?


Where as i see them as getting very powerful if not kept in check and all the additional powers they get just adds on to that.

Sutehp wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Anyone more familiar with d6 in general done some expansion on Firearms in Star Wars? I can see them being common on primitive planets... since they're common on this primitive planet.


Common? Primitive? MY HOME THIS IS!!! Mr. Green Evil or Very Mad Mr. Green


And you could probably tell from many of my posts, i have plenty of firearm stats.

Quote:
There is video footage of a Katana slicing bullets in half. That is a "primitive" weapon that, in the hands of a Jedi, could defend against bullets. I know its off topic, but kind of a tangent at least.


Didn't mythbusters crack that myth wide open?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know, but we are talking about Jedi with Jedi swords at the end of the day.

AP blaster ammo.... why not? Honestly?
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Scots Dragon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Didn't mythbusters crack that myth wide open?


They were the ones with an incident where a katana slices a bullet in half, though a machine gun with heavier ammo shot the thing in half. While that's a limitation of real-world metallurgy, Star Wars uses hyper advanced space alloys with names like durasteel and impervium, and a Jedi Knight could just as easily parry bullets as they could blaster bolts. The Prequels show blaster bolts moving at around the same speed as bullets.

As for AP blaster ammo, it's easy enough to justify. The idea is that it's a different chemical mixture and composition of the gases which results in a blaster bolt that has higher penetration.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

AP blaster ammo.... why not? Honestly?


How exactly would you explain it? Better gas? Already got rules for that via spin sealed tibanna gas.
Something else?
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Naaman wrote:

AP blaster ammo.... why not? Honestly?


How exactly would you explain it? Better gas? Already got rules for that via spin sealed tibanna gas.
Something else?

There are plenty of things you can adjust on a blaster apart from ammo..
https://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/blaster-20110301-091049.jpg
"causality assembly knob" might be my favorite! Seriously, in the old books there was some kind of accelleration circuitry in the barrel which accounted for bigger blasters having better range and more damage wasn't there?

As to the concept of setting the difficulty, couldn't you just use the damage roll for the attack to adjust the alter difficulty similar to absorbing a blaster bolt with absorb/dissipate?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems to be in the same realm as something I have argued here, that the velocity of a blaster bolt and a bullet is totally different.
The bullet is much faster.
We have some back and forth on this, with valid arguments on both sides.

If we look at HOW a blaster works, then it is actually a bolt of plasma that is slunged out of the blaster, here is where tibanna gas comes in etc etc.

I would argue that a "foot-long" plasma bolt has less velocity and more mass to deflect hence is why they did this.

The Katan and bullet is done in a controlled environment and only a master so powerful Sidious would not even count as force sensitive could do this in battle.

So because the blaster bolts are large as a rancor, and slow as a slug, they can be deflected by the lightsaber/force imbued weapon/certain materilas weapon.

You see it travel and can actually track it......hence why that sniper rifle was so dangerous because it fired an invisible bolt.

Now we cant actually judge anything from the weapon ranges in the books, ut we do have some indications that bullets fly faster and longer............

Sam Wessel would have used a blaster if that was superior, she chose it becuse it was a bullet shooter and thus would make the job easier as the shot would not be seen or could be blocked.


How to kill a jedi....use a rapid fire slugthrower

Now could the various force shields and the like be a defense....possibly, but it would not seems to me plausabe to block a bullet, but a blaster is fair game you see it, and it is not like trace ammo
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're trying to apply real-world physics to a series of movies and a few tv series.

It won't work.

Real plasma has very low density.

To quote Atomic Rocket (a most excellent website):

Plasma is the so-called "fourth state of matter", and is basically hot air. That is, it is a gas heated to temperatures comparable to the interior of a star or the center of a thermonuclear explosion so that all the atoms are ionized. Unfortunately, according to the virial theorem, the plasma wants to equalize its internal pressure with the external, i.e., it wants to expand into a diffuse cloud of nothing.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php , under the heading "Plasma Weapons".

So whatever in-universe explanation of blasters and how they work should be treated as highly suspect at best, and downright silly at worst. Blasters work at the rule of cool. Preferably, the rest should be internally consistent with that, but the technology is a hideous hodgepodge of weird stuff existing at the same time - essentially, the tech level of any Fantasy roleplaying campaign (where plate mail, full plate, and hide armor coexists quite happily).

So your foot-long plasma bolt is way less dense than a bullet, and has way less mass.

When it comes to actually being able to cleave a bullet - well, there's an experiment for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk It isn't bullet speed, but then again the guy isn't Force sensitive. An airsoft pellet travels at about 100 m/s, which is about a third to a fourth of the speed of a 9mm projectile with a common load (varies with weapon and so on, but generally 330 - 400 m/s).

Zam Wesell did use a blaster, in addition to the sniper rifle.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
You're trying to apply real-world physics to a series of movies and a few tv series.

It won't work.

Real plasma has very low density.

To quote Atomic Rocket (a most excellent website):

Plasma is the so-called "fourth state of matter", and is basically hot air. That is, it is a gas heated to temperatures comparable to the interior of a star or the center of a thermonuclear explosion so that all the atoms are ionized. Unfortunately, according to the virial theorem, the plasma wants to equalize its internal pressure with the external, i.e., it wants to expand into a diffuse cloud of nothing.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php , under the heading "Plasma Weapons".

So whatever in-universe explanation of blasters and how they work should be treated as highly suspect at best, and downright silly at worst. Blasters work at the rule of cool. Preferably, the rest should be internally consistent with that, but the technology is a hideous hodgepodge of weird stuff existing at the same time - essentially, the tech level of any Fantasy roleplaying campaign (where plate mail, full plate, and hide armor coexists quite happily).

So your foot-long plasma bolt is way less dense than a bullet, and has way less mass.

When it comes to actually being able to cleave a bullet - well, there's an experiment for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk It isn't bullet speed, but then again the guy isn't Force sensitive. An airsoft pellet travels at about 100 m/s, which is about a third to a fourth of the speed of a 9mm projectile with a common load (varies with weapon and so on, but generally 330 - 400 m/s).

Zam Wesell did use a blaster, in addition to the sniper rifle.


she did not use the blaster for the task she used the slug rifle for, and for a reason.

I will agree that a Blaster Bolt has the velocity about the same as an airsoft pellet.
This IS both dodgeable and block/parryable velocity.

I was about to say if we compare to a real world Machine gun, firing tracers, then we see the tracers roughly as we do the blaster bolts, velocity is by visibly (eyes measured) about the same.
A standard machine gun has tracer rounds every 5/10 rounds, meaning what we is a 1/5 to 1/10 of the actually.
So allow the blaster bold about 1/5 ( repeaters) and 1/10 ( non repeaters) and we have more or less exactly what we actually see on screen.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I will agree that a Blaster Bolt has the velocity about the same as an airsoft pellet.


Where are you getting that belief from?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Quote:
I will agree that a Blaster Bolt has the velocity about the same as an airsoft pellet.


Where are you getting that belief from?


rough estimate.

I'll give the blaster bolts 1/10 of "normal bullet" velocity

1/10 is about the max of air soft output in comparison

( not considering various calibers and weapons here where the velocity varies)
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A plasma ball has to travel to its target in less than a thousandth of a second. If it takes longer than 0.001 seconds to reach it's target, then the plasma will have expanded too much to be useful. In other words after 0.001 seconds it stops being a lethal plasma bolt and starts being a mildly annoying gas cloud.

Most blaster rifles have a maximum range of 300 meters. If the bolt has to travel 300 meters in 0.001 seconds then it is traveling at a minimum speed of 300,000 meters per second. That's over 984,000 feet per second.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Quote:
I will agree that a Blaster Bolt has the velocity about the same as an airsoft pellet.


Where are you getting that belief from?


rough estimate.

I'll give the blaster bolts 1/10 of "normal bullet" velocity


Based on what. What we see on screen?
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

300 000 meters per second is also a different speed. That's lightspeed, or close enough for Government purposes.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The average speed of light, in a vacuum, at earth gravity is approximately 3.0 x 10^8 or 300,000,000 meters per second. Change any of those factors and the speed of light changes.

The speed the plasma bolt would have to travel in my example is 3.0 x 10^5 or 300,000 meters per second.

Plasma makes a lousy ranged weapon, but that's in the real world. Star Wars is science fantasy. If you want to ignore the physics of the situation, that's fine. But that seems

Personally, I liked it better when they were lasers. Lasers make excellent weapons with no problems with physical laws. But lasers can't be reflected with laser swords. Plasma can be deflected by a magnetic field.
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