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House Rule Play Test
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dph
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: House Rule Play Test Reply with quote

Hi folks

I’ve been GMing SWD6 for over 20 years now and I think it still stands up pretty well as is!
But… Even though I don't really like heavy house ruling, there’s a few things I’ve always thought could be done differently, particularly concerned with streamlining a few convoluted mechanics in an otherwise 'free flowing' rules set.

I'm going to play test them with my latest campaign but I thought I'd share my house rules here and invite anyone to comment!
I’ll revisit this thread with an update in a few months after I’ve had a chance to play these things out.

RAW = (rules as written)

Skills
Removing Advanced Skills
Dex
Move Beast riding from Mech
Combine Melee Combat & Parry
Combine Throw and Grenade
Str
Rename Athletics (combining Climb/Jump and maybe swim?)
Rename ‘Lift’ to Brawn or something that is more of a catch all for it’s multitude of uses.
Combine Brawl Combat & Parry (from Dex)
Kno
Add Navigation and use for Astrogation (from Mech) which you can take as a Spec
Combine Business and Value
Mech
Combine Rocket and Jet pack
Make Swoop Operation a Spec of Repulsorlift.
Tech
Combine First Aid and Medicine
Combine Droid Programming/Repair
Other Possibilities
Combine Starship and Space Transport Piloting?
Combine Starship and Space Transport Repair?
Combine Star/Capital Ship Repair and the respective weapon Repair?
Bowcaster becomes a Spec of Blaster?

Stun Damage
I find it’s too easy to KO an target with a weapon set to stun.
A simple solution is to make ‘stun damage’ Short range only.
I’m also considering:
Stun RAW EXCEPT you roll half the weapons damage.
Stun RAW EXCEPT you must get a result of Incapacitated (rather than wounded)
Stun RAW but the victim is unconscious for 1d6 rounds (rather than 2D minutes)

Stunned and Stunned
I had some new players that found it very confusing that you can be ‘stunned’ from stun damage (KO for 2Dmins) and ‘stunned’ as a result of standard damage (-1 actions that and the next round).
I want to change the name of the Stun damage category.
Perhaps: Daze/Dazed, Wind/Winded, Staggered, Shaken?

Movement
Range Bands
I’m considering ‘range bands’ for movement like Edge of Empire rather than measuring out exact distances.
Simplified Rules
Otherwise, whilst maintaining the basic movement rules as is (4 speeds that take up to an action) the internal rules for each speed categories DN and movement failures have always been a bit too complicated for me.
I think that the GM can make a sensible decision on the DN based on the speed and terrain, as long as they know that a character should be able to make a full move (1X speed) through moderate terrain without rolling.
Failure
I also think failure could be simplified to a half move, with a fall if the DN is missed by more than 10.
Damage
Damage is 1D per speed multiplier (minimum 1).
A 1 could be an additional die damage, or an immediate fall.
Move Act Move
Is it possible to neatly do a full move with an action in the middle of the move, without messing up the standard MAPS?
I’m thinking they can make a standard cruise move and perform an action at any point during that move with an additional -1 penalty (like setting for stun).


Estimating Ranges
RAW provides a suggestion for Estimating ranges. I want to take it one step further.
Using the ranges as described (pg 89).
Each weapon has a ‘range’ based on which band corresponds to a moderate roll (e.g. pistol/short, rifle/medium).
The DN changes by one level for each range band you move up or down.
No limit on the number of bands down, but a maximum of one band up.
Some weapons are unique; Sniper Rifles and some repeaters can go higher than one band, other weapons like carbines and Heavy pistol cannot go into the next band up at all.
You lose some nuance between specific models of weapons and fine tuning range through repair, but hopefully it streamlines combat and the need to constantly check ranges.

Cover/Protection
Cover works the same as RAW but armour works like character armour, using the standard ‘body strength’ as the value.
The maths isn’t perfect but it’s close; certainly to make up for the process of working out if your miss was actually a hit against the protection, rolling damage against the body strength then rolling the modified damage against the character.

Character Armour
I'm thinking of getting rid of locations.
I like locations, but again, as armour has such a low impact on the game (blast vests are 1 pip VS Blasters!) maybe simple is better (and kinder to players).

Prone
Despite Prone being a regular penalty, there’s no rules for it!
I’m thinking +1 Difficulty level VS Ranged, -1 Difficulty level VS Melee.
Half move to crawl.
An action or a half move to stand.

Starship Combat
I'd like to move from my current Hex grid, style space combat (more or less like character combat) to something more narrative, but I haven't really found a good example. Maybe an actual play or another rule set?

Creditless Economy
If possible, I'd like to remove the need for credits. Some games (including D6 Space) have rules for a 'wealth' value on a character, or perhaps even ships' crew, where you roll to make acquisitions. Again, haven't yet found something that would port perfectly.

Thanks all for your time!
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Last edited by dph on Tue May 30, 2017 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: House Rule Play Test Reply with quote

dph wrote:
Dex
Move Vehicle Blasters from Mech THAT'S WHERE VEHICLE BLASTERS ARE IN SECOND EDITION
Str
Add Athletics (combining Climb/Jump) SINCE THESE ARE ALREADY COMBINED, YOU ARE JUST RENAMING
Mech
Combine Rocket and Jet pack
Make Swoop Operation a Spec of Repulsorlift. I ALSO MADE THESE TWO CHANGES
Tech
Combine Droid Programming/Repair I NEVER BOTHERED TO MAKE THIS CHANGE, BUT THIS WOULD PARALLEL THE EXISTING COMPUTER PROGRAMMING/REPAIR SKILL
Other Possibilities
Combine Starship and Space Transport Piloting THIS WAS THE CASE IN FIRST EDITION
Combine Starship and Space Transport Repair THIS WAS THE CASE IN FIRST EDITION

Bowcaster becomes a Spec of Blaster. I LIKE THIS ONE! Cool

Stun Damage
I find it’s too easy to KO an target with a weapon set to stun.
A simple solution is to make ‘stun damage’ Short range only.
I’m also considering:
Stun RAW EXCEPT you roll half the weapons damage.
NO THIS MAKES STUN TOO WORTHLESS
Stun RAW EXCEPT you must get a result of Incapacitated (rather than wounded) YES
ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO USE THE EXISTING STUN RULES AND HAVE WEAPONS SET ON STUN GIVE LEVELS OF STUN SO 0-3: = 1 LEVEL OF STUN, 4-6: 2 LEVELS OF STUN, 9-12: 3 LEVELS OF STUN, 13-15 4 LEVELS OF STUN, 16+ UNCONSCIOUS. OR COMBINE USING 1 OR 2 LEVELS OF STUN FOR 0-3 AND 4-6 RESPECTIVELY AND SET UNCONSCIOUS AT 9+ DAMAGE

Stun RAW but the victim is unconscious for 1d6 rounds (rather than 2D minutes) NO
THIS MAKES IT TOO LIKELY PEOPLE WILL NEXT KILL STUNNED CHARACTERS TO PREVENT THEM FROM POPPING RIGHT BACK UP


Movement
Range Bands
I’m considering ‘range bands’ for movement like Edge of Empire rather than measuring out exact distances.
PERSONALLY I HATE RANGE BANDS AND FIND WORKING WITH THEM MORE TROUBLE THAN JUST MENTALLY TRACKING DISTANCE
Simplified Rules
THE 2E REVISED RULES SEEM TOO COMPLICATED TO ME AS WELL.
Move Act Move
Is it possible to neatly do a full move with an action in the middle of the move, without messing up the standard MAPS?
IT IS. I'VE ALWAYS USE SIMULTANEOUS MOVEMENT (AS THE GM I INTERPOLATE WHERE THE CHARACTERS WOULD BE BASED ON HOW MANY MOVES THEY MADE THAT ROUND) AND i WOULD TREAT THIS AS A SPLIT MOVE AND FIRE (AN OLD MINIATURES AND WARGAMING TERM)

Character Armour
I'm thinking of getting rid of locations.
ABOUT ALL I USE LOCATION FOR WITH CHARACTERS IS FIGURING OUT WHERE THE OUCHY IS AFTER THEY ARE WOUNDED OR WORSE.
Half move to crawl.
An action or a half move to stand.
I'D MAKE CRAWL A FULL MOVE BUT THE DISTANCE COVERED IS SHORTER, LIKE SAY 2 METERS.
I THINK STANDING FROM PRONE ALREADY TAKES AN ACTION. AH YES HERE IT IS IN THE 1E RULES ON PAGE 13

Quote:
Stance
You can always fall prone, without any penalty, at the end of your movement. Falling prone is part of movement, not a separate action. Prone characters can only move by crawling -- they may move up to two meters per round. When a crawling character makes a skill roll, his code is reduced by 1D (just like a running character).

Getting up from a prone position is an action; you can turn and use skills in the same round, but you can't move.

Prone characters are harder to hit in combat (see below).


Starship Combat
I'd like to move from my current Hex grid, style space combat (more or less like character combat) to something more narrative, but I haven't really found a good example. Maybe an actual play or another rule set?
I FOUND THAT USING POST IT NOTES OR COUNTERS TO SHOW RELATIVE ORIENTATION WAS ENOUGH. USING HEXES AND TRACKING ACTUAL MOVES IS WHAT STAR WARRIORS IS FOR. I DON'T THINK IT'S GENERALLY NECESSARY FOR STARSHIP COMBAT IN THE RPG.

Creditless Economy
If possible, I'd like to remove the need for credits. Some games (including D6 Space) have rules for a 'wealth' value on a character, or perhaps even ships' crew, where you roll to make acquisitions. Again, haven't yet found something that would port perfectly.
PERSONALLY WEALTH RULES ALWAYS FEEL VERY AWKWARD TO ME. BUT IF YOU LIKE OR ARE EVEN JUST OK WITH USING THEM THE D6 SPACE RULES SHOULD WORK.


And combining attack and parry into one skill is a fairly common thing to do. I've avoided it because blaster and dodge are two separate skills and I don't think it should be easier to attack and defend with a sword in space opera than it is to fire a ray gun and not get shot with a ray gun.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: House Rule Play Test Reply with quote

dph wrote:
Hi folks

I’ve been GMing SWD6 for over 20 years now and I think it still stands up pretty well as is!
But… Even though I don't really like heavy house ruling, there’s a few things I’ve always thought could be done differently, particularly concerned with streamlining a few convoluted mechanics in an otherwise 'free flowing' rules set.


Welcome to the pit DPH..

dph wrote:
Skills
Removing Advanced Skills


May i ask why you are wanting to remove advanced skills?

dph wrote:
Dex
Move Beast riding from Mech
Combine Melee Combat & Parry
Combine Throw and Grenade
Move Vehicle Blasters from Mech


While i can see the logic in the combining melee/parry and grenade/thrown i don't agree with it. That said. Why move beast riding from Mech to Dex? And vehicle blasters is already a dex skill, not mech skill. Its right on page 40 of the R&e book, last entry of the Dex skill list...

dph wrote:
Add Athletics (combining Climb/Jump)
Rename ‘Lift’ to Brawn or something that is more of a catch all for it’s multitude of uses.
Combine Brawl Combat & Parry


Climb/jump are already combined, or are you saying you are now going to name it athletics/climb/jump?
Also brawl parry is a dex skill, so are you moving it to Str AND then combining it with brawl??

dph wrote:
Kno
Add Navigation and combine with Astrogation from Mech and make it a Spec
Combine Business and Value


Business is not just knowing what to do, but what businesses are, so why would someone who knows about business, be good at valuing items?
And what is the difference between navigation and astrogation? And why would that be a spec of navigation..

dph wrote:
Mech
Combine Rocket and Jet pack
Make Swoop Operation a Spec of Repulsorlift.


Those are ok.. Common as well.

dph wrote:
Tech
Combine First Aid and Medicine
Combine Droid Programming/Repair
Other Possibilities
Combine Starship and Space Transport Piloting
Combine Starship and Space Transport Repair
Combine Star/Capital Ship Repair and the respective weapon Repair.
Bowcaster becomes a Spec of Blaster.


As someone who spent 5 years in the seabees and had many seminars on field first aid, just cause one knows how to patch someone up in a battlefield situation, does NOT MAKE one a doctor (which medicine is).
I've discussed the fighter-freighter combining before, so i won't go into it here..
But on the cap/starship repair and combining it with the weapon repair? Why? Just cause i know how to repair the engine on a tank, does NOT mean i know how to repair its 105mm howitzer main cannon..

dph wrote:
Stun Damage
I find it’s too easy to KO an target with a weapon set to stun.
A simple solution is to make ‘stun damage’ Short range only.
I’m also considering:
Stun RAW EXCEPT you roll half the weapons damage.
Stun RAW EXCEPT you must get a result of Incapacitated (rather than wounded)
Stun RAW but the victim is unconscious for 1d6 rounds (rather than 2D minutes)


Just as long as it works both ways (for and against the pcs)..

dph wrote:
Stunned and Stunned
I had some new players that found it very confusing that you can be ‘stunned’ from stun damage (KO for 2Dmins) and ‘stunned’ as a result of standard damage (-1 actions that and the next round).
I want to change the name of the Stun damage category.
Perhaps: Daze/Dazed, Wind/Winded, Staggered, Shaken?


I've always called it fatigued.
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You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: House Rule Play Test Reply with quote

dph wrote:
Movement
Range Bands
I’m considering ‘range bands’ for movement like Edge of Empire rather than measuring out exact distances.


My concern here is not every race/species has the same movement speed so allowing 2 characters of separate races to move the 'same distance' in range bands is doing a disservice imo to the faster species. Plus not all weapons have the exact same range "bands"

dph wrote:
Simplified Rules
Otherwise, whilst maintaining the basic movement rules as is (4 speeds that take up to an action) the internal rules for each speed categories DN and movement failures have always been a bit too complicated for me.
I think that the GM can make a sensible decision on the DN based on the speed and terrain, as long as they know that a character should be able to make a full move through moderate terrain without rolling.


Rolling to move through moderate terrain, is only needed at half speed and cruise. But if going double *full* or all out, its harder to do.. so you are wanting to make it going full (double speed) as a no-roll action??

dph wrote:
Failure
I also think failure could be simplified to a half move, with a fall if the DN is missed by more than 10.


So failing a move roll just halves the distance you moved? I like it.

dph wrote:
Estimating Ranges
RAW provides a suggestion for Estimating ranges. I want to take it one step further.
Using the ranges as described (pg 89) each weapon has a ‘range’ based on the range band which corresponds with a moderate roll (pistol/short, rifle/medium).
The DN changes by one level for each range band you move.
No limit on the number of bands down, maximum one band up.
Some weapons are unique, Sniper Rifles and some repeaters can go higher than one band, other weapons like carbines and Heavy pistol have a maximum range of their actual range.
You lose some nuance between specific models of weapons and fine tuning range through repair, but hopefully it streamlines combat and the need to constantly check ranges.


I am having a hard time understanding this one..

dph wrote:
Cover/Protection
Cover works the same as RAW but armour works like character armour, using the standard ‘body strength’ as the value.
The maths isn’t perfect but it’s close; certainly to make up for the process of working out if your miss was actually a hit against the protection, rolling damage against the body strength then rolling the modified damage against the character.


So cover now becomes armor?

dph wrote:
Character Armour
I'm thinking of getting rid of locations.
I like locations, but again, as armour has such a low impact on the game (blast vests are 1 pip VS Blasters!) maybe simple is better (and kinder to players).


So if i am wearing a vest, there's no benefit for someone shooting me in a limb/head to bypass my armor?

dph wrote:
Prone
Despite Prone being a regular penalty, there’s no rules for it!
I’m thinking +1 Difficulty level VS Ranged, -1 Difficulty level VS Melee.
Half move to crawl.
An action or a half move to stand.


I can also see being prone making it harder for you to dodge out from a grenade or other blast radi effect.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, being prone is exactly how to "dodge" a grenade if you find yourself out in the open. I might rule that a prone character takes less damage from a grenade if he fails to escape the blast radius.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if i am wearing a vest, there's no benefit for someone shooting me in a limb/head to bypass my armor?
Maybe it's my background running a lot of Runequest back in the day, but yeah, that's how hit locations work. After all, why would your vest protect your head, forearm, or calf if you were wearing it properly?

Naaman wrote:
FWIW, being prone is exactly how to "dodge" a grenade if you find yourself out in the open. I might rule that a prone character takes less damage from a grenade if he fails to escape the blast radius.
Though once he is prone its going to be difficult for him to crawl out of the blast radius of the next grenade.
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dph
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the input so far!
I’ll update the OP to correct a couple of errors/oversights.

I'll answer a couple of questions too that came up, and comment on a few ideas that I like!

I would also say that in general, most of the changes I’m suggesting come from an effort to streamline the game and are issues I've been considering for a while...

As it says in the rules, at it’s heart, SWD6 is simple.
The GM assigns a DN and the Player rolls a Skill/Attribute.
In most cases I’m trying to bypass a few game mechanics that (at least in my opinion) get in the way of that flow, even if that's at the expense of 'realism'.

Where I'm considering combining skills, it's in response to their lack of use or usefulness in our groups' meta (especially when you can simply default to the Attribute)
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dph
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: House Rule Play Test Reply with quote

Thanks Bren!

Stun Damage
I like your suggestion of inflicting multiple stuns, I’ll definitely try that out I think!

Prone
Never looked at 1st Ed...
I think those rules are pretty good.
Maybe I’ll go back and have a look for other titbits…

Combining Parry/Combat
I’ve been doing this for a while and I find that it works well.
I agree that Dodge and Blaster are very different skills, but it seems to me (at least in the context of a broad rule set like SWD6) that if you can attack with your sword, you can probably block with it too. You might be better at one than the other, but to me they feel like they go together.
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dph
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Garhkal!

No Advanced Skills
In almost two decades of games with multiple GM’s, Advanced Skills (for my groups at least) have been irrelevant. There’s only a couple of them and the investment of CPs for their limited gain is pretty low. Perhaps your table is different though.
I think that it’s far simpler to set much higher DN for Surgery, or using a Bacta Tank, certainly in the context of most Star Wars adventures...

Beast Riding in Dex
I personally don’t equate riding an animal with driving a car.
D6 Space did the same too.

Athletics
In part this is a rename (mainly because I hate two differnt names as a skill)
But I’m struggling with this one.
Climb, Jump, Swim, Run, Lift… Except for Lift, these could all be considered Dex OR Strength skills.
And I personally think that climbing and Jumping are very different activities.
I was considering Athletics combining Climb/Jump/Swim.
Need to think about this some more…

Brawl
Yes, I’m combining all Combat/Parry skills (and have done with success for years).
Brawl could be under Dex but I like it under a separate Attribute from Melee.
It’s not necessarily realistic, but I think it’s neat.
I also use Advantages/Disadvantages (from D6 Space) and was going to add one (Martial Artist) that allows Brawl as a Dex skill.

Business/Value Combined
Just wanted to consolidate a skill (Value) that gets next to no use in our games.

Navigation/Astrogation
I’m still not sure about this one...
It seems to me that Astrogation has nothing to do with 'operating' a vehicle.
Instead it’s ‘Navigation’ in space and it feels more like a Kno skill to me.
That gives players a few more options with the base skill too I think. They can spec in Astrogation if they want.

Repair Vehicle/Weapon
Of course they are different, but I really just want to trim all those repair skills down, especially vehicle weapon repair which doesn’t get much use (in our games anyway).
Still not sure on this one yet...

Rewording Stun
Fatigue is not bad…

Range Bands
Honouring different Character speeds is a concern for me too.
BUT... I want to move to a more narrative style of combat. In cases where speed is a key factor (like a chase) I could apply the different character speeds.
And yes, not all weapons have the same range bands, I'm just not sure all those micro differences make for a better game. If some weapons lose a few meters off of a range band, I think it might be a small price to pay for simplicity!

Cover/Protection
No, as I said, Cover works RAW, affecting the Attack.
‘Protection’ still reduces the Damage, just in a simpler way, providing a bonus to soak like Armour, rather than soaking the damage in one step and reducing the damage in another.
A lot of D6 rulesets do away with Protection all together!

No Armour Locations
I actually like Locations... but this is one of those rules I think we assume we need because we've always had it.
The idea is to make armour a more general mechanic and remove the need to roll location every hit.
Even without locations, armour could still 'officially’ cover certain body locations that can be bypassed by targeting those locations.
Many systems use a generalized armour value without locations. It would mean revisiting certain armour types, but It will be interesting to see if it skews the fights one way or another.

Prone & Grenades
Naaman is correct, the rules actually say you ‘hit the deck’.
We already house rule this that if you can’t find cover, you go prone.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So if i am wearing a vest, there's no benefit for someone shooting me in a limb/head to bypass my armor?
Maybe it's my background running a lot of Runequest back in the day, but yeah, that's how hit locations work. After all, why would your vest protect your head, forearm, or calf if you were wearing it properly?


Hence why i asked the question..

Bren wrote:
Naaman wrote:
FWIW, being prone is exactly how to "dodge" a grenade if you find yourself out in the open. I might rule that a prone character takes less damage from a grenade if he fails to escape the blast radius.
Though once he is prone its going to be difficult for him to crawl out of the blast radius of the next grenade.


And if he's already prone and one comes in right at him, he's gonna have a much harder time dodging out of it's blast radius..

dph wrote:
Combine climb/jump, and maybe swim??


As someone used to doing obstacle courses, just cause one is good in climbing and swinging, does not make one good at swimming. Hell two of the drill sgts we had for MCMAP were great on climbing nets, but NEITHER could swim to save their life..

And your thinking "armor has such a low impact" on games? What games you been in where no one has been wearing armor?

dph wrote:
In almost two decades of games with multiple GM’s, Advanced Skills (for my groups at least) have been irrelevant. There’s only a couple of them and the investment of CPs for their limited gain is pretty low. Perhaps your table is different though.


Not in my experience. Even NOT including my Sparks group i do Cons with, many groups have had at least someone take either (A) Medicine, or one of the ship engineerings.. Some had a pc with weapon and/or armor (powersuit) engineering..
I'd say the # of times it has come up on a PC's learning, was 35% or so..
That's not irrelevant in my pov..

dph wrote:
I personally don’t equate riding an animal with driving a car.


True, but neither is riding a beast purely dex based..

dph wrote:
Athletics
In part this is a rename (mainly because I hate two differnt names as a skill)
But I’m struggling with this one.
Climb, Jump, Swim, Run, Lift… Except for Lift, these could all be considered Dex OR Strength skills.
And I personally think that climbing and Jumping are very different activities.
I was considering Athletics combining Climb/Jump/Swim.
Need to think about this some more…


But as i said above to Bren, just cause someone may be good in climbing, does NOT mean one's a good jumper or swimmer.. Heck i actually think those 2 skills need to be Separated..

dph wrote:
Brawl
Yes, I’m combining all Combat/Parry skills (and have done with success for years).
Brawl could be under Dex but I like it under a separate Attribute from Melee.
It’s not necessarily realistic, but I think it’s neat.
I also use Advantages/Disadvantages (from D6 Space) and was going to add one (Martial Artist) that allows Brawl as a Dex skill.


So does that mean you also combine bowcaster/blaster/firearms/bows/grenades/missile weapons with dodge? So with one skill someone's outstanding with all ranged combat AND defending against them??
If not, and those are kept separate, why then combine the brawl/melee and their respective parries?

dph wrote:
Navigation/Astrogation
I’m still not sure about this one...
It seems to me that Astrogation has nothing to do with 'operating' a vehicle.
Instead it’s ‘Navigation’ in space and it feels more like a Kno skill to me.
That gives players a few more options with the base skill too I think. They can spec in Astrogation if they want.


Its more the operation of the ship's nav computer. ALL vehicle skills come under mech for operation..

dph wrote:
Repair Vehicle/Weapon
Of course they are different, but I really just want to trim all those repair skills down, especially vehicle weapon repair which doesn’t get much use (in our games anyway).
Still not sure on this one yet...


How 'trimming' do you want it? At this rate you are going to have what, 2-3 skills under each attribute?

dph wrote:
No Armour Locations
I actually like Locations... but this is one of those rules I think we assume we need because we've always had it.
The idea is to make armour a more general mechanic and remove the need to roll location every hit.
Even without locations, armour could still 'officially’ cover certain body locations that can be bypassed by targeting those locations.
Many systems use a generalized armour value without locations. It would mean revisiting certain armour types, but It will be interesting to see if it skews the fights one way or another.


Seems a little "off" imo. Especially when you have armors that ARE full body covering, to then give in essence, the Same protection to just mere vests..
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as far as the whole combining skills like crazy, imo unless you also reduce the # of cp/sp awards, just makes for an Easier time of 'super powering' up pcs, since they now have LESS skills to worry about spending CP's on.. So they can bank up just a dozen or so skills, rather than having to spread them around 20+
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just play 1E?

There's a lot less skills in that version of the game.
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dph
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch out, the Stormtroopers are coming for all your skills!

Don't worry Garhkal, I won't be 'combining skills like crazy', at this stage only a couple that have proven superfluous for our group, including Medicine.

And at this stage I'm not throwing out hit locations just yet...
My observation has been that players either wear full body armour, no armour, or a blast vest and helmet.
In the first and second case, a single armour attribute makes no difference.
In the case of a blast vest, applying that bonus to the whole body is negligible when it comes to blaster damage (given the low bonus) but would I admit be advantageous vs Melee/Brawl. Something I'll consider before implementing it.
I would also have to rethink how damage to armour works.
In the end, I guess I'm just too concerned how those negatives will effect my game, yours is obviously different. I just think it's worth trying out!

Perhaps you misunderstood me about Combat/Parry.
I have already combined Melee Combat & Parry and Brawl and Parry (not Melee & Brawl together) for years and it's had a positive impact on my game as outlined previously.
I don't really see a parallel between that and combining Dodge and ranged Attacks though. I think there's a much finer line between blocking with a sword and hitting with a sword than firing a blaster and dodging out the way.

Thanks for your input all, keep it coming.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Bren wrote:
Naaman wrote:
FWIW, being prone is exactly how to "dodge" a grenade if you find yourself out in the open. I might rule that a prone character takes less damage from a grenade if he fails to escape the blast radius.
Though once he is prone its going to be difficult for him to crawl out of the blast radius of the next grenade.


And if he's already prone and one comes in right at him, he's gonna have a much harder time dodging out of it's blast radius..
Exactly what I was saying.

garhkal wrote:
dph wrote:
Brawl
Yes, I’m combining all Combat/Parry skills (and have done with success for years).
Brawl could be under Dex but I like it under a separate Attribute from Melee.
It’s not necessarily realistic, but I think it’s neat.
I also use Advantages/Disadvantages (from D6 Space) and was going to add one (Martial Artist) that allows Brawl as a Dex skill.


So does that mean you also combine bowcaster/blaster/firearms/bows/grenades/missile weapons with dodge? So with one skill someone's outstanding with all ranged combat AND defending against them??
If not, and those are kept separate, why then combine the brawl/melee and their respective parries?
Because when you learn to use a sword you often learn to both attack and to parry. Whereas when you learn to shoot you don't as often learn to jump around doing the crazy chicken dance dodge routine.

The rationale for combining the brawling attack and parry and melee attack and parry is clear to me. So is the rationale for having them be separate. (I'm a long time Runequest player.) For me, not combining them is a game balance matter. I don't see any reason* to make fighting with archaic weapons like swords or axes easier to learn than fighting in a firefight where you need to shoot and dodge. That just doesn't seem very Star Wars to me.

* One exception is if the lightsaber skill is used for both attacks and parries. In that case it makes sense to treat a sword, vibroaxe, or forcepike the same as a lightsaber. It shouldn't be easier to learn how to swing a lightsaber. (By easier I mean cost fewer character points and yes I am ignoring the ease or the difficulty of finding a trainer.)
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you combine Brawling and Brawling Parry, what attribute does it key off of? Do you have a situation where Dex builds all use Melee Weapons, and Strength Builds all use things designed to key off unarmed (from Brass Knuckles to Power Fists)?
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