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Ship Location Targetting
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Realistically, once a small ship gets close enough to a larger ship, it will limit the number of weapons that can be brought to bear, regardless of what the WEG coordination rules say.


My point was actually that braving the full battery is the risk a pilot takes in order to get close: big risk, big pay-off if successful. If failed... *poof*!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
Now, an A-Wing flying in at it's all-out speed of 48 spaces will be able to clear that distance in two rounds, but at all-out it can't fire or do anything else but fly, including dodge, negating its +6D scale bonus to dodge. Page 96 of 2E R&E is very clear that the bonus is applied to the dodge skill. Without that scale bonus the A-Wing will likely be shot out of the sky in the first round.

There is also the issue that, under the RAW, an A-Wing lacks weapons heavy enough to do any real damage to a Capital Ship. 5D Dual Laser Cannon will require a lot of combining fire to have a real effect, and there is nothing in the Ship Location Targeting rules to establish increased damage or reduced scale (although they should; the rules in Pirates and Privateers are specifically for ships on the same scale).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Realistically, once a small ship gets close enough to a larger ship, it will limit the number of weapons that can be brought to bear, regardless of what the WEG coordination rules say.


My point was actually that braving the full battery is the risk a pilot takes in order to get close: big risk, big pay-off if successful. If failed... *poof*!

Under the RAW, the counter there is to attack en masse in a dispersed formation, forcing the target to divide its fire (and thus reduce the coordination bonus). Of course, there's no RAW for treating multiple ships in formation as a single target...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started a House Rule concept here.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose my earlier post implies my personal solution: just "rule" that point targets are smaller scale than the ship itself, which does take us out of the "official" rules territory.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I suppose my earlier post implies my personal solution: just "rule" that point targets are smaller scale than the ship itself, which does take us out of the "official" rules territory.

While i can understand that, i don't think a cap scale gun should drop all the way to SF scale.. Maybe half the difference??
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind you, now: Im talking about point defense weapons, not (calitol) ship-to-(capitol) weapons. As I understand it, a capitol ship is/can be equipped with both.

I absolutely condone starfighters having an easy time out-maneuvering capitol-scale weapons on a frequent and habitual basis.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Mind you, now: Im talking about point defense weapons, not (calitol) ship-to-(capitol) weapons. As I understand it, a capitol ship is/can be equipped with both.


Not that many btb seem to have both though..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in that case, I'd say that if the fighter or wing or squadron males it past the defensive enemy fighters and past the capitol ship's weapons, then his/their reward is easy pickins on specific target locations... or else you canr really have a PC ace pilot taking down capitol ships because there is just no way to overcome the scale difference. The films suggest otherwise, of course. Heck, a starfighter scale ship took down both death stars, and an A-wing took out a star destroyer (I'm going to reason that a missle or torpedo through the bridge/cock pit would have had similar effect).
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like it's implied in the rules that you should ignore scale for starfighters targeting specific systems on larger craft. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to emulate the Threat of Starfighter attacks on Capital Ships shown in movies. If an ISD was essentially immune to damage from snub fighters, why bother sending out your own fighters to deal with them? It makes no sense. Same thing with the attack on the Deathstars.

I feel like Fighters should be a credible threat, and not just en mass using combined fire rules.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But "credible threat" shouldn't make it easy (which is what ignoring scale modifiers would make it).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retaining scale modifiers makes it impossible for all practical purposes. Remember: we are talking about PCs here: characters on the same plane as Luke, Obi-Wan, Han, Padme, etc.

The challenge needs to be the approach (and possibly the attack roll) not the damage roll. By ignoring scale modifiers, you transfer the challenge to the attack roll (a measure of the character's ability as expressed by his allocation of character points), rather than to the damage roll (which a character has no way of increasing to match the proportion of his objective).

On the other hand, if the scale modifiers are retained, hitting becomes basically automatic.

Remember, we are talking about striking a critical component on a ship, not blasting it's armored hull indiscriminately.

Without scale modifiers, a starfighter could just say, "I shoot the star destroyer" and have a good chance of blowing it out of the sky. The scale modifiers are what force the fighters to make precision attacks, rather than brute force attacks.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really.

X-Wing Lasers: 6D
ISD Hull Rating - Scale: 7D

Meaning an ISD still has a better chance of soaking damage to a single turbolaser emplacement.

Will this make fighters a bigger threat to smaller capital ships? Sure. But, maybe it should.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR, are responding to my post or CRM's post? Seems like CRM's.
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