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Cover & Random Fire
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Also, philosophically speaking; if a Stormtrooper fires down a corridor and there is no rebel there to hit does he still miss?

Deep; I know.
Obviously he hits something. But to know whether the shot was "a hit" in a rules sense you'd first have to ask, "What was his aim?" It all sounds very Aristotelian to me. Laughing
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
It's kind of a philosophical discussion on par with 'If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound.'

In this respect, are the attackers shooting at characters they can't see, or are the characters moving through a zone filled with indiscriminate weapon fire.

I think that how you approach that set up will influence how you resolve the situation.

I think this overcomplicates the question. The point is, if a shooter strongly suspects there are enemies moving behind cover of smoke, and he shoots into the smoke at random (even though he can't actually see something to shoot at), what are the chances that he will hit an enemy who just happened to cross through his line of fire?

There is at least one instance in the films where this would be applicable. During the Cloud City escape, R2 used his internal fire extinguisher to block line-of-sight between the heroes and the stormtroopers. The stormtroopers still fired through the cloud, but were ostensibly firing blind (although, given the mean level of accuracy for stormtroopers when shooting at heroes, the point is less pointed than I'd like).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to the MFTAS and other optical equipment with similar capabilities, it's possible that advanced technology societies could have a "smoke grenade" that blocks either all or a large portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. the smoke from White Phosphorus not only blocks the visible spectrum, but the infrared spectrum, as the phosphorus particulate matter saturates the smoke cloud with heat. I picture a white phosphorus that also flakes off bits of chaff or charged particles that throw off ionization effects and blocks everything, including sensors and comm signals.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
With regard to the MFTAS and other optical equipment with similar capabilities, it's possible that advanced technology societies could have a "smoke grenade" that blocks either all or a large portion of the electromagnetic spectrum...
Sure. But you still want some reason that MFTAS exists. Now I'd imagine that in a real battle there would sometimes be a lot of unintentional smoke from burning vehicles, buildings, fuel dumps, and the like. So MFTAS would be great in those situations. But personally I seldom remember to include smoke from those sources in my Star Wars, though I probably should. So if you make super-duper smoke grenades you should include other forms of smoke and such where having MFTAS is better than not having MFTAS.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:

In this respect, are the attackers shooting at characters they can't see, or are the characters moving through a zone filled with indiscriminate weapon fire.

I think that how you approach that set up will influence how you resolve the situation.


I am leaning to the latter approach.

Their base shooting score sets a higher diff for moving through.

CRMcNeill wrote:

There is at least one instance in the films where this would be applicable. During the Cloud City escape, R2 used his internal fire extinguisher to block line-of-sight between the heroes and the stormtroopers. The stormtroopers still fired through the cloud, but were ostensibly firing blind (although, given the mean level of accuracy for stormtroopers when shooting at heroes, the point is less pointed than I'd like).


But with the exception of Leia in RoTJ, we ONLY ever saw storm troopers actually HITTING no-named mooks. So if one was going off film evidence, If you have a "Name" you are not going to get hit.

Bren wrote:
Sure. But you still want some reason that MFTAS exists. Now I'd imagine that in a real battle there would sometimes be a lot of unintentional smoke from burning vehicles, buildings, fuel dumps, and the like. So MFTAS would be great in those situations. But personally I seldom remember to include smoke from those sources in my Star Wars, though I probably should. So if you make super-duper smoke grenades you should include other forms of smoke and such where having MFTAS is better than not having MFTAS.


There's been a few sessions i have HAD the enemy troopers pop off smoke grenades. Just so THEIR MFTAS equipped helmets, would make it so the smoke wouldn't hinder them as much as the pcs they were after..
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

I think this overcomplicates the question. The point is, if a shooter strongly suspects there are enemies moving behind cover of smoke, and he shoots into the smoke at random (even though he can't actually see something to shoot at), what are the chances that he will hit an enemy who just happened to cross through his line of fire?.


Yep. I get that in your proposed scenario.

Shooters 'strongly suspect' the targets; therefore it tips the example into the 'Shooting at characters they can't see.'

As opposed to the act of shooting into the area in order to deny the safe use of that area. (covering or supressing fire.)

I am wondering how much the shooter's skill is actually involved.
Assuming the shooters skill is distilled down to holding the weapon properly, getting a proper sight picture on the target, accounting for the movement of the observed target as well as controlling the shooter's own movement. All of which is designed to make the projectile (or energy blast) collide with the target. The difficulty is based on the range and the target's ability to be a hard target (dodge)

Of course, the next question would be, what other roll would you use besides the weapon skill? Tactics? base Perception?

That's why I think I'd approach it from the terrain difficulty side of things.

Even a shooter with crappy skill at hitting a known and visible target can try to fill a space with blaster fire;

The difficulty for moving through that area without getting hit I think should be based on the AMOUNT of fire, rather than the quality of the shooter's skill roll. Something like +3 to the difficulty per shot being fired into the area. (Like a squad firing down the corridor vs a single repeating blaster).

However, if the shooter CAN see the target, even just vaguely because of the smoke, I think I would go with the blaster fire skill roll with the shooter penalties based on the smoke.

But that's just me musing on the subject.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if one was going off film evidence, If you have a "Name" you are not going to get hit.

And PCs exist somewhere in the grey area between "Name" and "mook", so while they have a better chance of surviving random blaster fire, they should not be completely immune.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So if one was going off film evidence, If you have a "Name" you are not going to get hit.

And PCs exist somewhere in the grey area between "Name" and "mook", so while they have a better chance of surviving random blaster fire, they should not be completely immune.


Which is why i prefer my stormies to be at least 1-2d better than the base book, so the pcs ARE not immune to getting hit!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
But with the exception of Leia in RoTJ, we ONLY ever saw storm troopers actually HITTING no-named mooks. So if one was going off film evidence, If you have a "Name" you are not going to get hit.

Leia also got hit by a stormtrooper in ANH. Stormtroopers hit both Threepio and Artoo, and they are not no-name mooks. And some of the Rogue One name characters got hit by stormtroopers. Just sayin'.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Leia also got hit by a stormtrooper in ANH. Stormtroopers hit both Threepio and Artoo, and they are not no-name mooks. And some of the Rogue One name characters got hit by stormtroopers. Just sayin'.

Indeed. Ultimately, nobody's immune to the dice.

Whill, I found myself thinking that folding Dodge and Running into Agility would be very helpful in simplifying this here. Maybe the character could make a single roll at -1D to both make the required Move and act as a normal Dodge?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
Leia also got hit by a stormtrooper in ANH. Stormtroopers hit both Threepio and Artoo, and they are not no-name mooks. And some of the Rogue One name characters got hit by stormtroopers. Just sayin'.

Indeed. Ultimately, nobody's immune to the dice.

Whill, I found myself thinking that folding Dodge and Running into Agility would be very helpful in simplifying this here. Maybe the character could make a single roll at -1D to both make the required Move and act as a normal Dodge?

I'm adopting a slightly altered version of your Agility, and I really like the simplicity of one roll here, -1D as a map-like penalty since you are trying to navigate your terrain without crashing and also dodge fire.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly altered? How?
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Slightly altered? How?

The same rules, just with mild to moderate drinking.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Slightly altered? How?

The same rules, just with mild to moderate drinking.

HA!
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, something I was thinking about yesterday... chances are, Stormtroopers are probably hella specialized. They don't practice Blaster... they practice Blaster:Stormtrooper Rifle.
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