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Pit Remodel
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 5018
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We appreciate everyone's concern for this site. There aren't any plans to significantly change Pit from what it has always been. These are tweaks.

For years "The Rancor Pit" forum at the top of the index has been misused as a "general" topics category (I'm guilty too). It is not being eliminated, but It has been renamed to a more proper "General Star Wars" and moved down the page below the SW D6 RPG section because the WEG SW RPG is what this site is about, and always will be as long as I have anything to say about it. If you aren't interested in general Star Wars discussions about the films, etc., you don't have scroll down that far.

The View New Post feature allows you to see a list of threads that have new posts since your last visit. It lists the forum for each thread. Between that and the thread title, you should normally be able to determine if it you are interested in the thread or not. If not, you don't have to click on it. We have no reason to think there will be a rise in general Star Wars threads making a lot of new threads for you to pass over.

There are no plans to have advertising here. The Pit is paid for privately as a community service. There are no traffic reqirements here, and there are no initiatives planned to increase traffic. We do not need General forums to get more people here, because they should only be here for the RPG like all of us. The General Star Wars forum is for the SW D6 RPG fans already here (who are interested), because all of us are Star Wars fans.

I'm ok with posts regarding WEG SW books for sale, but I will NOT tolerate commercially oriented posts for anything else, not even other SW stuff. So if someone thinks they will register here to sell action figures, that's NOT happening. Again, this site is here for GMs and players of the SW D6 RPG who sometimes talk about other stuff along the way.

I've tried to address the major concerns about the Pit, but this is not where we are going to give a detailed description of what is and isn't allowed to be posted and where. All will be revealed eventually, but this process will take time. We appreciate your patience. In the mean time, read the updated forum descriptions but otherwise proceed how you have been.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visit this forum almost every day, but it really does seem like most topics have to do with esoterica, mainly stats. One argument in favor of improving traffic all around is that newbie questions and topics about adventures and campaigns might get a better response. I honestly almost have better luck on RPGnet or Dragonsfoot in getting some useful (to me) Star Wars WEG discussion, simply because more people see the post. This post is offered with gratitude to Whill and WaterBob and all others who are helpful and whose posts I have enjoyed and all who have kept the lights on over the years. I could just use more!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
I visit this forum almost every day, but it really does seem like most topics have to do with esoterica, mainly stats. One argument in favor of improving traffic all around is that newbie questions and topics about adventures and campaigns might get a better response. I honestly almost have better luck on RPGnet or Dragonsfoot in getting some useful (to me) Star Wars WEG discussion, simply because more people see the post. This post is offered with gratitude to Whill and WaterBob and all others who are helpful and whose posts I have enjoyed and all who have kept the lights on over the years. I could just use more!

You're welcome. New traffic of Star Wars D6 RPGamers would be welcome, but there seems to be a fear that non-SW D6 RPG discussion would overwhelm the primary purpose of this site, which would just turn into a bulletin board for people to sell Star Wars stuff. I don't expect that to happen, and I don't want that to happen either. So improving traffic is great if the traffic is discussing the game, which seems to be what you want too.

An avalanche of replies to your questions might help you personally if you need an answer to a question or a solution to a problem you post, but it becomes a problem for a moderator to follow all threads and keep up with every reply. I remember years ago there being a new RPG.net thread I was interested in (and maybe posted in) in the morning, and then I went back in that same evening to check on it and it was already up to 10 pages of posts! That's nuts! I don't think I've been back to RPG.net forums since.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You're welcome. New traffic of Star Wars D6 RPGamers would be welcome, but there seems to be a fear that non-SW D6 RPG discussion would overwhelm the primary purpose of this site, which would just turn into a bulletin board for people to sell Star Wars stuff.


With the forums I follow, selling stuff is either banned or has its own forum.

I doubt a General forum to shoot the bantha pudu among posters would hurt the forum in any way.

And, if it did, you could always close it down.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
An avalanche of replies to your questions might help you personally if you need an answer to a question or a solution to a problem you post, but it becomes a problem for a moderator to follow all threads and keep up with every reply. I remember years ago there being a new RPG.net thread I was interested in (and maybe posted in) in the morning, and then I went back in that same evening to check on it and it was already up to 10 pages of posts! That's nuts! I don't think I've been back to RPG.net forums since.

The flipside is that you can't expect others to be equally as interested in a subject as you are. All you can do is put your idea out there and see who responds.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit late to the party but here's my 2 credits.

MrNexx wrote:
And I would drop the word "Droid" into either "Characters and Species" or "Ships, Vehicles, and Equipment"'s descriptions... otherwise, they'll get put half in one, half in the other, and you don't have a good metric for deciding which.
The vast majority of droids in my campaigns are equipment so that category makes the most sense to me, but that being said picking any one place for the info is better than no place or several places. I'm not talking about conversation drift, I'm talking about someone posting droid stats, pictures, or asking questions about droids or their stats. Drift happens in all threads.

Whill wrote:
This reordering doesn't really impact my personal usage of the site because I normally use the "View posts since last visit" feature so I see all activity in the order it happened, regardless of how far down the forum section is on the page. For those of you that don't use that feature, I'm sorry about the inconvenience of having to scroll down lower to check on non-RPG threads.
I always use the “View posts since last visit feature.” (Why would anyone not do that?)

I only wish it was a “View new posts” feature so that new posts that are unviewed would remain that way when I exit the forum. Sometimes I take a quick look at the forum and then have to exit out. When that happens I lose track of whether there are any new posts and if so where they are located.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
We need a "General" forum. It will increase traffic a lot. People who are interested in D6 Star Wars sometimes want to BS about a different game, or a movie they saw, or a non-SW book they read. Just a place to hang out and shoot the bantha-poo-doo.

Then let them go elsewhere to do so. I'm not interested in wading through a hundred messages about Star Wars action figures for sale just to find a few articles on D6.
I concur.

Other forums* already exist that cover other RPGs and other topics in general. Those forums that I have frequented have a, let us say, very different tone than the forum here. I'd hate to see the tone become more like that of any of those other forums and I'm afraid more general conversation would make a tonal change much more likely.


* Yes I know that the classical plural of forum is fora, but we are in the Star Wars D6 forum not the Roman forum.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thanks very much to Loc Tal, Whill, and everybody else who does the work that keeps this place running. Your efforts are appreciated. Greatly.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
And thanks very much to Loc Tal, Whill, and everybody else who does the work that keeps this place running. Your efforts are appreciated. Greatly.

Thank you and you're welcome. It would be remiss to not also recognize active moderators Chesire and Jmanski. They are both top shelf guys, and we are lucky to have them.

Bren wrote:
Yes I know that the classical plural of forum is fora, but we are in the Star Wars D6 forum not the Roman forum.

Latin class was 30 years ago so I appreciate this fun fact. To be technical, in modern English "forums" is also a valid plural of forum.

Bren wrote:
A bit late to the party but here's my 2 credits.

The vast majority of droids in my campaigns are equipment so that category makes the most sense to me, but that being said picking any one place for the info is better than no place or several places. I'm not talking about conversation drift, I'm talking about someone posting droid stats, pictures, or asking questions about droids or their stats. Drift happens in all threads.

A while back we had an epic philosophical discussion here about the nature of droids, something along the lines of whether they are (1) mere computerized equipment and any delusions of identity or individual wants and desires are errors that have crept into the code requiring a memory wipe to fix, or (2) sentient beings with actual feeling that deserve human rights, etc. The discussion got a bit heated and no consensus was achieved. No matter where you fall in that spectrum, it is an undeniable fact that in the game, droids function both as equipment and characters.

Historically, the "Characters" forum was one of the original forums on this site so that would have been the most appropriate place to post about droids. The Equipment forum was a more recent addition, but that created overlap because it is not an inappropriate place for droids. This new discussion in this thread about mandating droids to be discussed in one or the other is starting to remind me of that previous inconclusive droid discussion. As I already stated in this thread, I do not see any need to force droids into one forum or the other. The site's View New Post and Search functions will pull threads up from either forum, so this shouldn't impact anyone's usage of this site. If it's still a real big problem for people, then I'm sure we could create a Droids Thread Index to sticky to the top of both forums that has direct links to all the Droid threads on the site, but I'm pretty sure that if we did, the list wouldn't be too terribly long.

Bren wrote:
I always use the “View posts since last visit feature.” (Why would anyone not do that?)

I only wish it was a “View new posts” feature so that new posts that are unviewed would remain that way when I exit the forum. Sometimes I take a quick look at the forum and then have to exit out. When that happens I lose track of whether there are any new posts and if so where they are located.

This is a valid complaint I have had about this site for 9 years. I am hoping that a future update will fix this. Unfortunately there is currently no ETA on this.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Then let them go elsewhere to do so. I'm not interested in wading through a hundred messages about Star Wars action figures for sale just to find a few articles on D6.
Bren wrote:
I concur... I'd hate to see the tone become more like that of any of those other forums and I'm afraid more general conversation would make a tonal change much more likely.
Whill wrote:
I'm ok with posts regarding WEG SW books for sale, but I will NOT tolerate commercially oriented posts for anything else, not even other SW stuff. So if someone thinks they will register here to sell action figures, that's NOT happening...
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
With the forums I follow, selling stuff is either banned or has its own forum.

We occasionally get, "FYI guys, did you see this WEG SW RPG lot for sale on eBay?" or "I have an extra copy of R&E for sale or barter." I don't see any reason to disallow these posts by SW D6 gamers on this site, but these are too infrequent to make a dedicated forum. If someone registers and their only posts here are about selling stuff, they will be banned. If someone gets spammy, they will be banned. If someone tries to sell non-WEG Star Wars stuff here, yes they can go somewhere else and do that.

Whill wrote:
...Again, this site is here for GMs and players of the SW D6 RPG who sometimes talk about other stuff along the way.
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I doubt a General forum to shoot the bantha pudu among posters would hurt the forum in any way.

And, if it did, you could always close it down.

Let me go into a little detail about what is happening here. The "General" section underneath DW D6 RPG is not a new section. It is just the "Miniature" section renamed.

There were two forums there, one for the old WEG mini game and one for a modern FFG game. They both only had a handful of threads and don't warrant their own forum section or even their own forum. I renamed the original WEG mini thread "Other Star Wars Games" and moved our big FFG SW RPG thread there. I moved the FFG mini forum's threads to Other SW Games and deleted the FFG mini games forum. There are other non-SW-D6-RPG game threads on this site to search for and eventually move there. Other Star Wars Games warrants its own single forum, but mini games alone don't.

The Star Wars Fan Fiction forum also was a handful of threads, and half of them were not even fan fiction related (links to Star Wars related videos, etc.). I moved the Fan Fiction threads to General Star Wars and deleted the Fan Fiction Forum. "Fan fiction" was included in the section description. (As mentioned above in the thread, General Star Wars was was just the old "The Rancor Pit" forum renamed and moved down since most of the threads there were general Star Wars topics.)

As the Rancor Pit goes through this remodel, it is extremely important to me that nothing of its long history is lost. There are some threads that aren't SW D6 RPG, Other Star Wars Games or General Star Wars topics, such as the D&D Toy Hall of Fame thread. There will be a Miscellaneous forum (at the bottom of General) to move these 'odds and ends' to, removing them from forums they are out of place in but not losing them completely from our history. So yes, it will also be a place for new non-Star Wars "off topic" discussions. And yes, if it becomes detrimental to this site in any way, the forum can easily be locked with the flick of a switch - In that case new posts couldn't be submitted but the existing threads will still be preserved for viewing.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
We occasionally get, "FYI guys, did you see this WEG SW RPG lot for sale on eBay?" or "I have an extra copy of R&E for sale or barter." I don't see any reason to disallow these posts by SW D6 gamers on this site, but these are too infrequent to make a dedicated forum. If someone registers and their only posts here are about selling stuff, they will be banned. If someone gets spammy, they will be banned. If someone tries to sell non-WEG Star Wars stuff here, yes they can go somewhere else and do that.

I'm fine with this sort of sale; obviously, letting people know about SWD6 used books for sale is directly connected to SWD6. My main source of concern is topics that had no easily discernable connection to SWD6 right from the beginning.

Admittedly, some of it may be tied to my experience being a Moderator for the G+ Community. We have filters in place to help keep the group on topic, but it's amazing the amount of off-topic crap that tries to get in the door simply on account of being a Star Wars page. I've had to delete, for example, multiple ads for how to design the same outfit John Boyega wore in the castle battle in TFA, or one guy who liked to post entire episodes of the Clone Wars to every Star Wars website he could think of.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I'm fine with this sort of sale; obviously, letting people know about SWD6 used books for sale is directly connected to SWD6. My main source of concern is topics that had no easily discernable connection to SWD6 right from the beginning.

Admittedly, some of it may be tied to my experience being a Moderator for the G+ Community. We have filters in place to help keep the group on topic, but it's amazing the amount of off-topic crap that tries to get in the door simply on account of being a Star Wars page. I've had to delete, for example, multiple ads for how to design the same outfit John Boyega wore in the castle battle in TFA, or one guy who liked to post entire episodes of the Clone Wars to every Star Wars website he could think of.

The Rancor Pit being on a dim corner of internet and not a major social media platform like Google+, we've thankfully never had that problem here.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

And if there was a way to filter out the "General Forum" topics so that they didn't show up on my "Posts Since Last Visit" page, I might agree. Apparently I wasn't clear enough earlier; I come to the Rancor Pit to discuss Star Wars D6. If I want Star Wars general discussion, there are other pages I can go visit that are filled with any number of Star Wars subject. The Rancor Pit caters to a specific subset of interest in Star Wars, and should stay on-topic..


In a way i agree with this. There are some sites i visit, i click on "posts since my last visit" and even only being say 12 hrs since i was last on, i've got 4-5 pages worth of stuff to scroll through to just get to the 5 or so threads i commented on. BUT i generally just open up threads i know i've posted to, and occasionally check out newer ones.

So in that regard, i can agree with CRM that it would be a possible hassle to go through all the rest..

MrNexx wrote:

And if the site weren't being reorganized, you might have a point. But, as they're reorganizing and open to suggestions, I don't see why we shouldn't make suggestions as to how it would best fit in with our use of it.


That said, i also agree with Mr Nexx that since this is a thread on suggestions and what got done to re-organize the site, people CAN make all the suggestions they wish, and yes not everyone will agree with them. BUT that shouldn't stop someone making a suggestion.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:

And, that's it. Sure, there are a few more that return every so often, but the bulk of this forum is made up of the input from just eight people.

Let's call it ten...ten people on the forum in case I missed one or two.


Maybe that's something we need to get addressed then. Maybe Whill or another moderator who has access to all the accounts created, can send a 'mass email' to all users with NO Activity in say 2 years, and say "We will b doing a purge of all accounts without activity, in 1 month or "at the start of the new year", if you do not wish to see your account deactivated, pay us a visit again and say something.."

Whill wrote:

An avalanche of replies to your questions might help you personally if you need an answer to a question or a solution to a problem you post, but it becomes a problem for a moderator to follow all threads and keep up with every reply. I remember years ago there being a new RPG.net thread I was interested in (and maybe posted in) in the morning, and then I went back in that same evening to check on it and it was already up to 10 pages of posts! That's nuts! I don't think I've been back to RPG.net forums since.


I know that feeling. BitD over on the holonet before it became almost a ghost town, i had some posts which i could have linger for 2-3 weeks before even getting half a dozen replies, while others would garner 20 posts in 12 hrs.. Then other sites i could come back to a new thread i started at noon, and by midnight i would have 4 pages worth of posts to go through..
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I always use the “View posts since last visit feature.” (Why would anyone not do that?)

I only wish it was a “View new posts” feature so that new posts that are unviewed would remain that way when I exit the forum. Sometimes I take a quick look at the forum and then have to exit out. When that happens I lose track of whether there are any new posts and if so where they are located.


You answer your own question right in the next paragraph... I check a subforum at a time, and if I come back, anything I haven't read is still marked new. Add in that I frequent a number of forums where the signal to noise in such as method would get pretty huge (I just checked with one forum I frequent; there are 500 threads I haven't checked, most of which I never will), and "View posts since your last visit" is simply not a habit I ever acquired.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

We occasionally get, "FYI guys, did you see this WEG SW RPG lot for sale on eBay?" or "I have an extra copy of R&E for sale or barter." I don't see any reason to disallow these posts by SW D6 gamers on this site, but these are too infrequent to make a dedicated forum. If someone registers and their only posts here are about selling stuff, they will be banned. If someone gets spammy, they will be banned. If someone tries to sell non-WEG Star Wars stuff here, yes they can go somewhere else and do that.

Yeah, I think I've made two such posts here over the years. Good thing to come of it was that my copy of Pirates and Privateers went to a user on the Pit. Though he's not been around for a good 10 years or so. I don't think we've ever had a problem of too much "for sale" issues here. I don't really anticipate that changing.

But, heck, if it gets to be a problem, I'm sure it's nothing we can't deal with prudently when it comes to it.

Whill wrote:

As the Rancor Pit goes through this remodel, it is extremely important to me that nothing of its long history is lost. There are some threads that aren't SW D6 RPG, Other Star Wars Games or General Star Wars topics, such as the D&D Toy Hall of Fame thread. There will be a Miscellaneous forum (at the bottom of General) to move these 'odds and ends' to, removing them from forums they are out of place in but not losing them completely from our history. So yes, it will also be a place for new non-Star Wars "off topic" discussions. And yes, if it becomes detrimental to this site in any way, the forum can easily be locked with the flick of a switch - In that case new posts couldn't be submitted but the existing threads will still be preserved for viewing.


Thanks for the update. It's good to hear where we're headed. And it's not like the Pit couldn't do with a little housecleaning.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I don't think we've ever had a problem of too much "for sale" issues here. I don't really anticipate that changing.

But, heck, if it gets to be a problem, I'm sure it's nothing we can't deal with prudently when it comes to it.

Exactly. I also do not anticipate that changing, but if it did we would certainly deal with it.

garhkal wrote:
BitD over on the holonet before it became almost a ghost town, i had some posts which i could have linger for 2-3 weeks before even getting half a dozen replies, while others would garner 20 posts in 12 hrs.. Then other sites i could come back to a new thread i started at noon, and by midnight i would have 4 pages worth of posts to go through.
...
So in that regard, i can agree with CRM that it would be a possible hassle to go through all the rest.

I also do not anticipate that changing, but if it did we would certainly deal with it.

garhkal wrote:
Maybe that's something we need to get addressed then. Maybe Whill or another moderator who has access to all the accounts created, can send a 'mass email' to all users with NO Activity in say 2 years, and say "We will b doing a purge of all accounts without activity, in 1 month or "at the start of the new year", if you do not wish to see your account deactivated, pay us a visit again and say something.."

What is the point of this? What problem is being caused by there being inactive accounts here not being used? They just sit there doing nothing. Why would we need to get rid of them? What could be accomplished by that? Just forcing them to check in? If they're not at a place in their life for participation here, that would be artificial. They could check in and then just leave again. And people sometimes leave for years and come back. I've seen it happen several times. A lot of people may have changed email addresses so wouldn't get the message. For the users who had their account deleted and then try to come back later, they would create new accounts. I would rather everyone's account be there waiting for them when they come back on their own.

You seem to simultaneously fear this site getting too busy and too slow! I feel both fears are misplaced. I do not expect any drastic changes.
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