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The Last Jedi (original spoilers thread)
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread...about references to WWII.

The bombers are a clear analogy to the WWII bombing runs...where the flying fortresses would be required to be clustered so close together that one being destroyed sometimes took out others nearby.

They were clustered because they all needed to drop their bombs on the same target at relatively the same time frame.


In WWII they had to cluster because the best technology they had was the Norden Mk. XV bombsight, and the best gunsight was the Mark I Eyeball.

The formation they flew in was called the "Combat box" consisting of the:

Lead Element
High Element
Low Element
Low Low Element

And when making bomb runs they flew in a column front to back at different altitudes, not wingtip to wingtip at the same altitude

The B-17's had anti-fighter weapons in 8 positions (2 in the Bendix chin turret, 2 on nose cheeks, 2 staggered waist guns, 2 in upper Sperry turret, 2 in Sperry ball turret in belly, 2 in the tail and one firing upwards from radio compartment behind bomb bay)

Flying in close formation in WWII allowed the bombers to support each other when fighters attacked.

Oh and seriously the Rebel bombers are dropping free fall bombs...

In space...

Where there's no gravity to cause the bombs to fall onto the target...

Quote:
And the speeds showed in the movie are pretty much analagous to fighters trying to protect flying bombers on a run.


Never criticized speed, so I've no idea why your bringing that up.

Quote:
I'm not sure why you didn't like Poe taking out all of the anti-fighter cannons on the ship...after seeing what he could do in the cockpit in his scenes in TFA.


First I don't believe for a second that an 8 kilometer long dreadnought built to fight off capital ships is only armed with 2 dozen anti-starfighter weapons and only a pair of cannons used for planetary bombardments and capital ships.

Second, a single X-Wing doesn't have weapons powerful enough to get thru a capital ships shields by itself. Even an outdated ship like the Mandator IV-class Dreadnaught.

Quote:
We play Star Wars D6 for pete's sake! That's what it would look like if a pilot had a dozen dice in his skills! There woulnd't be many like him in the entire galaxy...but he's there!

Very Happy


Yeah Star Wars not The Last Starfighter against Xur and the Kodan Armada. Smile
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really a plot hole, but more of a quandary. The Force Projection of Luke walks into the base from the "secret" rear opening, and that's what leads Poe and the rest to go searching for that other way out, unseen by the First Order.

The escaping Rebels didn't know that Luke was a Force Projection--they were escaping, and none of them saw him disappear.

So....if he was a Force Projection, he really didn't need an opening to walk through. He could have just appeared, walking up from the darkness of the cave. Yet, it is a coincidence that there is a secret rear opening--that all the Rebels assume Luke used (at least until they find it closed by the rock slide)--when the Force Projection really had nothing to do with the rear entrance.

Of course, there's the crystal coyotes, too.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, how about Phasma's armor taking a full on blaster bolt like that, and the bolt just ricocheting off?

I wonder what that would look like under D6.

She didn't even flinch.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Hey, how about Phasma's armor taking a full on blaster bolt like that, and the bolt just ricocheting off?

I wonder what that would look like under D6.

She didn't even flinch.



If it gets explained I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the reason it can do that has to do with the fact that it's made/coated with the same type of chromium that went on the emperor's yacht.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how Yoda's point about learning from failure and not letting the past define you is also a way of the character talking to the audience, saying, "This is not your father's Star Wars anymore." The story grows, changes, expands.

I honestly didn't know which way Ben was going to go, either. For a moment, I was thinking that Episode IX would be about Rey and Ben, fighting side by side against Snoke's legions.

That is something that Rian was able to pull off that kind of doubt in this film.

Heck, I thought, for a moment, that Rian was going to kill off Finn, too. Let him go down in flames as a hero--his character arc complete.



As much as I love to read a Star Wars novel or comic, too many of the stories were the same. No matter what era. The old Tales of the Jedi era stories could easily be set in the future. When publishers tried to do something a little different with the universe with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, it seemed to turn as many people off as it turned on.

I like the new direction of Star Wars. Yes, it's sad because we've just viewed the end of an era. Luke, Han, and Leia are a thing of the past--the past stories.

It is time for growth, time for something a little different.

I can't wait to see where this all ends up in Episode IX.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Hey, how about Phasma's armor taking a full on blaster bolt like that, and the bolt just ricocheting off?

I wonder what that would look like under D6.

She didn't even flinch.



If it gets explained I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the reason it can do that has to do with the fact that it's made/coated with the same type of chromium that went on the emperor's yacht.


I was thinking about that in terms of D6. First off, it didn't look like a heavy blaster, so I'm guessing, what? 3D damage max?

I guess the damage roll was really low while Phasma's STR + Armor roll was really high. Thus, the bolt just reflected off the armor, just like a miss.

I can see that.

Plus, they must be using Second Edition rules, because in First Edition, any hit is enough to stun. Very Happy
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Flying in close formation in WWII allowed the bombers to support each other when fighters attacked.

My working theory is that a tight formation not only allowed them to overlap their shields for stronger defense, but it was also a necessity when combining fire for damage.

Quote:
Oh and seriously the Rebel bombers are dropping free fall bombs...

In space...

Where there's no gravity to cause the bombs to fall onto the target...

Technically, there was gravity inside the ship, which caused them to free-fall out of the bay. How far down that extends, I don't know, but this is Star Wars, so it'll probably just get handwaved that there was some sort of accelerator tractor field or something.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
3D damage max?

A regular Blaster Pistol does 4D.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Technically, there was gravity inside the ship, which caused them to free-fall out of the bay.


Nice.

Very Happy
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
3D damage max?

A regular Blaster Pistol does 4D.


So, for grins, let's say that one did 3D+1 damage. Very Happy It looked to be a smaller blaster.

He rolls 2, 3, 1, for a total of 7.

Phasma has STR 3D+2, and armor provides +2D (special chromy stuff).

Phama rolls 3, 4, 6, 5, 4, for a total of 24, which is more than three times the damage roll.

Ping! Blaster bolt glides off like butter touching a hot pan.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is likely a military-grade, standard issue blaster pistol, which does 4D damage. There is no reason a stormtrooper would be carrying a sporting or hold-out blaster, which are the only blaster pistols with damage that low.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
It is likely a military-grade, standard issue blaster pistol, which does 4D damage. There is no reason a stormtrooper would be carrying a sporting or hold-out blaster, which are the only blaster pistols with damage that low.


Similar example would still apply, though, even at 4D damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
It is likely a military-grade, standard issue blaster pistol, which does 4D damage. There is no reason a stormtrooper would be carrying a sporting or hold-out blaster, which are the only blaster pistols with damage that low.


Similar example would still apply, though, even at 4D damage.

True.

Simplest solution would just be to say that the chromium armor finish provides an additional +2D against Energy weapons, which (assuming it is otherwise standard stormtrooper armor) gives it a rating of +2D Physical, +3D Energy, -1D Dex.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke's use of Doppelganger facts:
- lot's of concentration
- no DSP
- LONG range
- makes you look younger
- can touch others
- can take massive amounts of damage
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense
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