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Solo (original spoilers thread)
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"That’s cause a droid don’t pull people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that."

Finally we see it in all its glory (but no too gory) Cool
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall, I thought it was a great movie. If I had two complaints, they are

1) I didn't like that Lando was a cheat. The only time we see him cheat is when the Falcon is on the line, so it may be that he saved it for that, but I didn't like that one aspect of the movie.

2) I felt it was VISUALLY too dark... not thematically, but simply "You need a bit more light in these shots".

Also, I now find I *really* miss subtitles when they're not there. My ears are old, but I read fast.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always assumed Lando was some form of a cheat or another. Before we even meet him in ESB, Han says (concerning Bespin), "Lando conned somebody out of it."
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I always assumed Lando was some form of a cheat or another. Before we even meet him in ESB, Han says (concerning Bespin), "Lando conned somebody out of it."


I suppose that a "card up the sleeve" seems so... prosaic. Like no one notices that he's got a special bracer that holds a card?
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing left out of the movie is the life debt. This movie changed the circumstances of Han and Chewie's meeting and escape. It used to be that Han chose to free Chewie, for which Chewie pledged a life debt. But their escape in this movie, while fun, changed that dynamic. Han's act is totally self-serving now, rather than selfless. So now there's no clear life-debt event. But for that matter, the movie doesn't mention a life debt anyway.

I guess this isn't the worst thing, though. There's an appeal to having Chewie stick around through thick and thin because he wants to, not because he has to.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Maul Reply with quote

I really liked the movie overall, but this subject seems unavoidable...

Authors of Wookieepedia wrote:
However, through his hate and will to survive, Maul used the Force to grab an air vent as he was tumbling down the reactor shaft. He then managed to make it to a trash container.[13] Maul's shattered body was dumped on the junkyard world of Lotho Minor.[20] He lived in the bowels of the planet and had his legs replaced by a six-legged apparatus that allowed him to walk again.
Whill wrote:
This isn't just cartoons anymore. Somebody please give me a better explanation for how Maul survived being cut in half through the waist. Zabrak special ability? They're near-human, so it seems so fantastic.
cheshire wrote:
I thought the Maul insertion was dumb. On future viewings I shall put my hand in the field of vision, covering my view of that part of the screen while grumbling, "no...no...no...no..."

My guess is that it's a setup for another movie of some sort.
Falconer wrote:
How did Darth Maul survive being cut in half and falling down a chute? What has he been up to all this time? Why doesn’t his continued existence mess with the Sith (always two there are…)? Why did he light up his lightsaber?
nuclearwookiee wrote:
It would be a lot more believable if Obi-Wan had just severed Maul's legs, but it seems pretty clear from TPM that Obi-Wan gave Maul a hemicorporectomy. To be fair, though, there was no blood gushing out of Maul's torso (other than the initial spray), and Maul was clearly conscious, aware, and moving on his way down the shaft.
cheshire wrote:
Yeah, I'm just trying hard to be over it. Several years ago I read about Maul's resurrection on a WotC board. I asked someone how in the world they brought him back. They gave as good an answer as anyone could. My next post was just, "Oh good. For a moment I was deeply afraid they were going to do something that made a modicum of sense."

When Maul appeared on the screen, some guy laughed out loud. My son and his best friend (both 8 years-old) saw the movie with me. I groaned. My son started objecting but I shushed him. As soon as the end credits started to roll, the kids jumped out of their seats, came over to me and almost simultaneously said, "Maul in the movie is stupid!" And they have seen TCW where he survived but was apparently was killed by Palptaine, and Rebels where he was killed by Obi-Wan (again) on Tatooine so they know he was alive during this time period. They both think like I do that it was always dumb to bring Maul back to life even in cartoons. They also got it that it was out of place and pointless for this film. And my son's friend just kept saying, "How many times are they going to kill Maul?" as if also anticipating that Maul was a set-up for a future live action film.

When TPM came out, Lucas was questioned as to why Maul was specifically cut in half. He said the reason was that Episode II was moving forward with a new villain so Maul had to be very clearly dead beyond the shadow of the doubt so the fans wouldn't beg expect him to return, beg to bring him back and be disappointed when he didn't. He seems to have anticipated Maul's popularity as a cool villain, and Maul's bisection did accomplish what he wanted it to. Of course when he was doing TCW, had no more live action films coming, and demand was nil for bringing Maul back, then he brings him back completely defying his certain death. This isn't the worst film-defying thing from the cartoons they could have brought into live action (Anakin getting promoted to Knight and assigned his own padawan a few weeks after his mother died in his arms would have been worse), but resurrecting Maul is still pretty bad.

How can we explain this? Zabrack special ability that puts the body (parts) into some sort of hibernation to survive until he can be put back together, or turns a Killed result into Mortally Wounded and then he used the Force to hibernate until he can be put back together? Maybe Darth Plagueis was still alive at that point, lurking around Naboo and saved Maul with his power to prevent people from dying?

Falconer wrote:
Why is he involved in smuggling? Is he headed for a showdown with Han, and if so, wouldn’t that have an affect on Han’s view of the Force as being a bunch of mumbo jumbo? It seems like they were trying to engineer a fangasm moment, but it’s doubtful if it will pay off.
Mamatried wrote:
No reason to change anything so far. Looking at the scene in the falcon cockpit where Han is shocked at Chewie being 190, in ANH he is 200, in the timeline I think at the latest Maul is killed by Obi Wan no earlier than 1-2 BBY, meaning 8-9 years after the movie.

Plenty time for a crime cartel to fall
Falconer wrote:
nuclearwookiee wrote:
Falconer, most of those questions are answered in the Clone Wars and Rebels cartoons.

Sure, until they’re rebooted out of canon. Wink

nuclearwookiee wrote:
More likely it's a setup for the Obi-Wan movie.

Which will overwrite the cartoons?

Maul supposedly died a final death in 2-1 BBY when he hunted old Obi-Wan down on Tatooine. It was extremely anti-climactic as the battle was over in one second, and then Maul died in Obi-Wan's arms like Qui-Gon. If they did bring Maul back for the Obi-Wan anthology film and handled it well, I could almost accept his survival of TPM. Maybe Maul hunted Obi-Wan down for revenge and infiltrated or took control of a Sand People tribe, maybe even disguising himself as a Sand Person until a dramatic reveal. But they would have to have Maul explain how he survived and make it good. But I would want a big kick-@$$ lightsaber duel and Maul to die an irrevocable final death in the Obi-Wan movie. It seems like they could only do that if they defy Rebels, which I am fine with but I don't think they will. I don't think the Obi-Wan movie is going to be set that close to ANH because Ewan McGregor being Obi-Wan makes more sense if it is no more than about half-way between the prequel and classic trilogies (about when Solo is set). And I would also hate if the film became the live action version of the Rebels episode because we don't need Ezra in a live action Obi-Wan movie (It was stupid that he found Obi-Wan when the only rebel that knew he was there should have been Bail Organa.) So Maul in an Obi-Wan movie could be good or and, but at this point it is still stupid that they ever brought him back to life in the first place.

It would just make more sense if it is a clone of Maul, maybe even a crazy clone who thinks he is Maul.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuclearwookiee wrote:
Lando ran away before completing delivery to Crimson Dawn. Han has a good argument that Lando failed to fully perform his side of the bargain. Besides, Beckett was the one that hired Lando, not Han.

True. When Han showed up to Lando at the end, Lando asked if Han brought his cut, but that doesn't mean that Han actually owed the cut to him.

nuclearwookiee wrote:
Another thing left out of the movie is the life debt. This movie changed the circumstances of Han and Chewie's meeting and escape. It used to be that Han chose to free Chewie, for which Chewie pledged a life debt. But their escape in this movie, while fun, changed that dynamic. Han's act is totally self-serving now, rather than selfless. So now there's no clear life-debt event. But for that matter, the movie doesn't mention a life debt anyway.

I guess this isn't the worst thing, though. There's an appeal to having Chewie stick around through thick and thin because he wants to, not because he has to.

I was going to say that the life-debt to Han was an EU thing to explain why Chewie was away from his family and that Chewie may not have the family in canon, but I read on Wookieepedia that a canon novel did establish that Malla and Lumpawaroo are canon and they were all separated when they were enslaved by the Empire. The life debt does still exist in canon too, so they just didn't discuss it in Solo. I'm ok with them not mentioning it in Solo because they already used the life debt concept for Gungans in TPM.

MrNexx wrote:
Overall, I thought it was a great movie...

I didn't like that Lando was a cheat. The only time we see him cheat is when the Falcon is on the line, so it may be that he saved it for that, but I didn't like that one aspect of the movie.

cheshire wrote:
I always assumed Lando was some form of a cheat or another. Before we even meet him in ESB, Han says (concerning Bespin), "Lando conned somebody out of it."

I suppose that a "card up the sleeve" seems so... prosaic. Like no one notices that he's got a special bracer that holds a card?

The bracer thing was really that obvious for the audience to make out what it was. I can suspend disbelief enough that to imagine that it wasn't really that obvious-looking in-universe. I always envisioned Lando as a skilled gambler who was also not above cheating. Not only did he "con" someone out of Cloud City, but Han described him as a card player, gambler and scoundrel in the same sentence.

Quote:
I felt it was VISUALLY too dark... not thematically, but simply "You need a bit more light in these shots".

But the visual darkness is an intentional style choice to represent the thematic aspect of the underworld.

Quote:
Also, I now find I *really* miss subtitles when they're not there. My ears are old, but I read fast.

I'm totally with you there. At home I watch subtitles/captions for everything (except sitcoms because they ruin the delivery of the punch lines).
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:


Quote:
I felt it was VISUALLY too dark... not thematically, but simply "You need a bit more light in these shots".

But the visual darkness is an intentional style choice to represent the thematic aspect of the underworld.


But it can also obscure the action and the acting. In Kesssel, for example, the lighting was bad enough that I sometimes ran into problems telling the wookies from the enforcers. It can be thematically dark without making it difficult to see.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say the “visual darkness” as you say was my #1 issue with it. I’d love to see a version (a fan version if nothing else) with a lot more color.
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the darker hues fit the movie's tone, so I liked it. I also loved the musical cues, especially the reprise from TESB asteroid chase when the Falcon is moving through the maw.

I liked the movie a lot, but do not love it. Solid B+ effort.
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised how much I enjoyed Solo, since The Last Jedi really made me question putting any more money in Disney's pocket. It's pacing wasn't great, nor the lighting, but the world building was great, and the characters were rather believable. It's kind of a shame the movie, like Rogue One, is largely unnecessary, but I had a good time anyway.

Though not a popular opinion, my wife and I actually enjoyed the reveal of Maul. Unfortunately, if they don't make a sequel to Solo, Maul's appearance is rather bracing considering his death in The Phantom Menace. I like his arcs throughout The Clone Wars and especially Rebels. I also preferred his quick death to another long, drawn out choreographed lightsaber duel. It was a nice throwback to the old samurai films.
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

I was going to say that the life-debt to Han was an EU thing to explain why Chewie was away from his family and that Chewie may not have the family in canon, but I read on Wookieepedia that a canon novel did establish that Malla and Lumpawaroo are canon and they were all separated when they were enslaved by the Empire. The life debt does still exist in canon too, so they just didn't discuss it in Solo. I'm ok with them not mentioning it in Solo because they already used the life debt concept for Gungans in TPM.


Yes, the family and enslavement was dealt with quite a bit in the book "Aftermath: Life Debt". It's part of a 3 book series. Worth a read, in my opinion. Start with Aftermath, then A: Life Debt, and last A: Empire's End. I'm on the last book, and I'm enjoying reading the books.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/05/solo-star-a-wars-story-theatre-projection-problems-bradford-young-1201969989/

An article about how different projection standards might have influenced how folks saw Solo.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
http://www.indiewire.com/2018/05/solo-star-a-wars-story-theatre-projection-problems-bradford-young-1201969989/

An article about how different projection standards might have influenced how folks saw Solo.

Thanks, Nexx. That sucks for the people without access to quality theater projection, but hopefully it means that the film may look better when it comes home.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son and I saw Solo again tonight. I think last week I was just so shocked about Darth Maul it stymied me.

This time, I just have to say that I really loved this movie (except for the one stupid part). It has a good story in a vehicle for lots of great Star Wars universe action scenes and wonderful fan service. There is just so much to love! This movie is inspiring for smuggler campaigns like the two I am planning now.

And this time I was reminded of a solo adventure I ran involving the spice mines of Kessel. I remember the advanced PCs had been frozen in carbonite there but somehow used the Force to get out. He then sparked a huge slave and droid rebellion a lot like in Solo, except in my adventure there was a big repulsor-mine-car scene (obviously influenced by Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom). That was fun.

And on the way home I was thinking and talking with my son. I decided I'm not going to worry about concocting any explanation for Maul surviving being cut in half. I'm removing Zabrak (and Dathomirians/Zabrak-Human hybrids) from being a PC species and probably won't use them as NPCs in my game much, if at all. I'm just not going to deal with it.

I had already thought of Maul having a clone when writing up my SWU's Clone Wars (plural). I wanted one of my Clone Wars to involve the Mandalorians and that war was inspired by Legend's Spar and Canon's Death Watch. For now, in my SWU that wasn't even Maul in Solo. That was a clone named "Mauul." Cool
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