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Solo (original spoilers thread)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: AT-hauler Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
[The ship also had a hyperdrive, although its navigation computer only contained pre-calculated hyperspace jump destinations to a select group of Imperial outposts—in an effort to discourage thieves.*

*Source: Solo: A Star Wars Story The Official Guide

But again, it's just an inter-atmospheric heavy lifter, fielded by a military that doesn't equip ships with hyperdrives unless the mission specifically requires it. It has long been my position that material produced by the Lucasfilm story group should be viewed with a critical eye, and disregarded if there is a conflict. These are the same people, after all, who tried to say that the MC75 was a converted building.
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WillTasker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw the film again this weekend and its even better than I remembered. Ron Howard really, really stepped up in the 11th hour. (Now if only he'd make a sequel to Willow and ignored those terrible novels...)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
[The ship also had a hyperdrive, although its navigation computer only contained pre-calculated hyperspace jump destinations to a select group of Imperial outposts—in an effort to discourage thieves.*

*Source: Solo: A Star Wars Story The Official Guide

But again... These are the same people, after all, who tried to say that the MC75 was a converted building.

Exactly. Darklighter, the conversation already acknowledged that canon publishing states that the ship has a hyperdrive. That is not in dispute. We are saying the ship having a hyperdrive is dumb. I was saying, based on the film and the novelization, it having hyperdrive is not necessary for the story if it got a lift from the freighter that would have hauled the freight car away had the heist been successful. That makes more sense than Obi-Wan being ordered to capture Jango Fett and bring him to the Jedi Council in a one-man fighter!

WillTasker wrote:
Ron Howard really, really stepped up in the 11th hour. (Now if only he'd make a sequel to Willow and ignored those terrible novels...)

I'm sure it will, but like with canon SW using the EU, the Willow novels could maybe be mined for inspirational ideas. Ron Howard said that there have been talks with Lucasfilm of him directing a sequel to Willow, but I haven't heard anything else.

WillTasker wrote:
Saw the film again this weekend and it's even better than I remembered.

Sweet! After our last viewing, my son said Solo is his second or third fave SW film.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
We are saying the ship having a hyperdrive is dumb.

Well, it's good to have a backup evac, if capital ships are disabled / destroyed. Especially if Empire tends to put generals into first wave assault, like on Hoth. Otherwise, lots of equipment and personnel are stranded until new evac team arrives (if any).
As the designer said "It’s utilitarian. (...)but what I think is cool about it is it’s kind of like a Swiss army knife. It has a couple different functions to it.”

As for the movie: I liked very much the Mimban siege scene: mud, chaos, death, very much WWI.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Well, it's good to have a backup evac, if capital ships are disabled / destroyed. Especially if Empire tends to put generals into first wave assault, like on Hoth. Otherwise, lots of equipment and personnel are stranded until new evac team arrives (if any).

Your argument is flawed on multiple levels. This same argument would apply to TIE fighters stranded in-system by the destruction of their mothership, yet the Empire still didn't give them hyperdrives. Generals and other high-ranking personnel already have high-end hyperdrive equipped platforms (Lambda, Theta, Sentinel, etc) with which to evacuate, should they ever need to. And finally, in the minute chance a legion or corps deployed for planetary assault suddenly finds itself without any capital ship support or hyperspace transport, it has bigger problems than "how to evacuate the generals." Assuming they were ever on the ground in the first place; the ImpSB makes the point that Army Command Staff generally stays in orbit at Regimental Level and up, only deploying to the surface if there are communications issues.

Quote:
As the designer said "It’s utilitarian. (...)but what I think is cool about it is it’s kind of like a Swiss army knife. It has a couple different functions to it.”

I agree, it's a very cool design, and the ability to transport a wide variety of heavy objects between both surface and orbit and surface to surface is a definite asset. But that sort of mission doesn't require a hyperdrive, which the Empire is pretty stingy with in the first place.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
TIE fighters stranded in-system by the destruction of their mothership, yet the Empire still didn't give them hyperdrives.

Generals fly ties?

Quote:
Generals and other high-ranking personnel already have high-end hyperdrive equipped platforms (Lambda, Theta, Sentinel, etc)

So it safe to leave armored walker during evac and run to a shuttle?

What about "came to close to the system" tactics. Wouldn't transport with hyperdrive be justified then?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Generals fly ties?

Don't play dumb. You weren't just talking about generals, you specifically mentioned valuable military equipment left in system and unable to evacuate itself.

Quote:
So it safe to leave armored walker during evac and run to a shuttle?

If the general is at the point where his vehicle is under intense fire from the enemy, to the point where he can't get out of it, his unit has bigger problems than "how does the general safely evacuate?"

Quote:
What about "came to close to the system" tactics. Wouldn't transport with hyperdrive be justified then?

The Empire has other craft available to do that if necessary. Sentinel Landing Craft have hyperdrives and can land a reinforced platoon. There is also fractalsponge's Chi-Class Heavy Landing Craft, which he has recently confirmed is hyperspace-capable, and can land a full battalion or more depending on configuration.

I repeat, the Imperial model for small craft design is to make them cheap and make a lot of them. Hyperdrives cost money, and they aren't going to put the credits into equipping millions of glorified forklifts with hyperdrives on the off-chance that they might need it.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I repeat, the Imperial model for small craft design is to make them cheap and make a lot of them. Hyperdrives cost money, and they aren't going to put the credits into equipping millions of glorified forklifts with hyperdrives on the off-chance that they might need it.


Especially a military grade Hyperdrive. A x1 Hyperdrive costs 15,000 credits, plus installation. Multiply that by ten thousand units and you're looking at 150 million credit cost, just in hyperdrives that now make the ship easier to steal and escape with. The Empire has to think in terms of the thousands of star systems in their known galaxy, and when you start implementing something on such a grand scale, you need to cut corners where you can. No shield generators on fighters, no hyperdrives on "forklifts".

I have to agree that it makes more sense that the ship needs to piggyback on a larger transport. But, hey, if in your games you want it to have a hyperdrive, more power to you!
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:

Especially a military grade Hyperdrive. A x1 Hyperdrive costs 15,000 credits, plus installation. Multiply that by ten thousand units and you're looking at 150 million credit cost, just in hyperdrives that now make the ship easier to steal and escape with. The Empire has to think in terms of the thousands of star systems in their known galaxy, and when you start implementing something on such a grand scale, you need to cut corners where you can. No shield generators on fighters, no hyperdrives on "forklifts".

You are right. I have forgotten about Viper Probe droids. All the resources and bank loans went for this project - single-use-hyperdrive x1 for 22,5k.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
You are right. I have forgotten about Viper Probe droids. All the resources and bank loans went for this project - single-use-hyperdrive x1 for 22,5k.

Well, a few points...

1). "the mission specifically requires it." A Probe Droid does little good if it takes 50-100 years to reach its destination while traveling at sublight. Therefore, a hyperdrive is required so as to provide timely intelligence (as in, within the lifetime of the officers needing said intel).

2). Per GG6 (pages 39-40), backup hyperdrives are intended to be single use, and require an overhaul after each use. So, there is precedent in the RAW for a single-use hyperdrive. In fact, a hyperdrive intended to be used once and thrown away might be even less expensive than a backup hyperdrive, although the price would likely be offset by making a x1 instead of a x5.

3). A probe droid isn't going to go rogue and defect to the Alliance.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

2). Per GG6 (pages 39-40), backup hyperdrives are intended to be single use, and require an overhaul after each use. So, there is precedent in the RAW for a single-use hyperdrive. In fact, a hyperdrive intended to be used once and thrown away might be even less expensive than a backup hyperdrive, although the price would likely be offset by making a x1 instead of a x5.


That's something i am surprised we've not seen stats for.. "Throw-away" single use hyperdrives..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
That's something i am surprised we've not seen stats for.. "Throw-away" single use hyperdrives..

I don't see much use for it beyond something like the Probe Droid pod. It's not like ship hyperdrives in the SWU are rare or expensive, so any ship that can afford a hyperdrive is going to have a multi-use one that just requires regular maintenance.

The only real application I can see would be to put a hyperdrive on an escape pod, so that it can reach the nearest planet if it has to be used in interstellar space.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:

2). Per GG6 (pages 39-40), backup hyperdrives are intended to be single use, and require an overhaul after each use. So, there is precedent in the RAW for a single-use hyperdrive. In fact, a hyperdrive intended to be used once and thrown away might be even less expensive than a backup hyperdrive, although the price would likely be offset by making a x1 instead of a x5.


That's something i am surprised we've not seen stats for.. "Throw-away" single use hyperdrives..


Use them as missiles. Win the war. Done and done.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Use them as missiles. Win the war. Done and done.

And yet, the fact that it hasn't been done so far should be telling. It's likely that guidance is an issue. And the fact the you have to know where to send it (which is the main problem for the Empire when it comes to the Alliance). Add to that the likelihood that patrolling starfighters (which pretty much everybody has) will probably be able to shoot something like this down while it is on approach.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
TauntaunScout wrote:
Use them as missiles. Win the war. Done and done.

And yet, the fact that it hasn't been done so far should be telling. It's likely that guidance is an issue. And the fact the you have to know where to send it (which is the main problem for the Empire when it comes to the Alliance). Add to that the likelihood that patrolling starfighters (which pretty much everybody has) will probably be able to shoot something like this down while it is on approach.


If Holdo can do it, why not a kamikaze droid pilot that jumps out of hyperspace, engages the enemy, and jumps into hyperspace again while pointed at them? Star Wars droids don't appear to mind Asimov's three laws too much. Even without a droid, apparently it would have been really easy for just about any rebel to kill Palpatine in ROTJ by jumping to hyperspace in the battle of Endor.
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