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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: '1' on the Wild Die |
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Per the rules, when a '1' comes up on the Wild Die the GM can do three things, choosing from these as best fits the current game situation, story, character actions, etc.
1. Nothing, add the dice pool normally.
2. Take away the Wild Die and the highest die in the dice pool.
Third option is one that, per the rules, most people get incorrect.
3. If the roll is successful, the GM may assess a 'complication'.
I know a lot of GMs who automatically assess a 'complication' whenever a '1' is rolled on the Wild Die. Typically this really gripes the players off. So how do take the sting out of a '1' coming up on the Wild Die?
| Quote: | Option 1:
If you assess a 'complication' award the character a Character Point. |
| Quote: | Option 2:
Do not tell the players what is going to happen with the '1' on the Wild Die. They know they have it, the GM knows they have it. Ask them, "You have a '1' Wild Die, do you want to spend a Character Point to cancel it out?" If yes, add the dice pool normally. If no, then choose from the appropriate three options. If you assess a 'complication' award the character a Character Point. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Note that Complications should only be used once or twice in an entire adventure.
| Quote: | Page 74, SWR&E
You should use complications to help tell a more interesting and exciting story. Complications should only happen a couple of times in an adventure — most often during its dramatic conclusion — and should get the players excited and more involved in the game. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: '1' on the Wild Die |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | So how do take the sting out of a '1' coming up on the Wild Die? |
I think I've met those very same players! 
I had the same problem. The example in the book is the moment on Endor when Han stepped on a twig, made it snap, and blew his Sneak attempt to stealth up on the Scout Trooper. I know players that would really gripe at that if I just laid it on them. They want their Sneak to succeed.*
So, what I needed to do was take the me vs. them feeling out of the Complication. What I used to do was roll a D6 when a "1" appeared on the Wild Die. I found that players were OK with it if the result was random rather than the thought of me picking on them with a complication.
D6
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1-3 = Add up normally.
4-5 = Subtract the "1" and the highest die from the total.
6 = Complication
Under the rules, this allows Complications to happen to often, so if I were using the Wild Die (I like 1E with no Wild Die), I might alter the above like this...
If total roll is even, then add up normally.
If total roll is odd, then Subtract the "1" and the highest die from the total.
As for Complicatons, I think I'd look at the adventure and pick some areas--one or two or so--and try to pre-think possible Complications. I'd have "Complication enabled" encounters or zones on the adventure (though I wouldn't tell the players that).
If I saw a good place for Complication to add to the narrative or fit into the game, I might make those possible--and sometimes tell the Players ahead of time so that they know what they are risking.
For example, if the PCs are on Dagobah, climing up natural tree vines to get to the top of a cliff, I might say, "The vines here are slick and wet. Some are rotted. A Wild Die 1 will indicate that your vine broke, and you'll have a chance to catch yourself before falling to your death.
Other times, I won't tell the players that a Complication is possible.
*There is the school of thought that Complications should go with the success/failure of the task. If a Complication is indicated by the dice, but the task is a success, try to think of a Complication that allows the task to be successful and the Complication to occur.
| Quote: | | You shoot the Stormtrooper, and the impact of your blaster bolt makes the trooper involuntarily squeeze of a shot from his own blaster. It goes wide and hits a tank on the corridor wall, which blows, collapsing the entire corridor. You have no where to go but to backtrack. |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: '1' on the Wild Die |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | I had the same problem. The example in the book is the moment on Endor when Han stepped on a twig, made it snap, and blew his Sneak attempt to stealth up on the Scout Trooper. I know players that would really gripe at that if I just laid it on them. They want their Sneak to succeed. |
Yes I always disliked that example, because its a "success" with a '1' on the Wild Die, GM assesses a 'complication', which means the roll fails and something bad happens. Which makes no sense to me.
I think that maybe a complication should be split into two outcomes:
1. Failed with with 'complication': Skill rolls fails and something negative happens to the PC/Group or makes the scene more dramatic/difficult as a direct result of the failed skill roll.
2. Success with 'complication': Skill roll is successful but something negative happens to the PC/Group or makes the scene more dramatic/difficult as directly related to the skill used.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | 1-3 = Add up normally.
4-5 = Subtract the "1" and the highest die from the total.
6 = Complication |
That is amazing, that is the exact same formula I came up with for use on Roll20 for when I wanted to lazy or more arbitrary with assessing what a '1' means on the Wild Die.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Under the rules, this allows Complications to happen to often... |
I don't follow. Do you mean 1. Anytime a '1' comes up on the Wild Die the GM can assess a 'complication", or 2. Anytime a '1' comes up on the Wild Die and the GM rolls 1D and it comes up a '6' the GM can assess a 'complication"?
I would point out that in no.1, per RAW a complication only takes place if the player makes the skill roll and has some pretty detailed explanations of how to use it and frequency:
| Quote: | REUP pg.73-74
"You should use complications to help tell a more interesting and exciting story. Complications should only happen a couple of times in an adventure — most often during its dramatic conclusion — and should get the players excited and more involved in the game. When you use a complication, the players should be asking themselves, “What do we do now?”
"Complications should be fair and balanced: they may put characters in danger, but they shouldn’t be “death traps” with
no possibility of escape. They should challenge the characters, forcing them to be clever and courageous in dealing with the situation.
"Complications can also be used to balance powerful characters. If one character has become nearly invincible — perhaps due to a fantastic set of bounty hunter armor — the armor may short out if a complication is rolled.
"Complications should be directly related to what the character was doing — if a character gets a complication while repairing a droid, perhaps the droid’s components short out and start a fire, or a malfunction makes the droid harder to fix." |
Or are you saying that no.2 still has a possible 'complication' too often? If so, I would point out that using version no.2 the chance of a complication is 1:36. Which is a far cry from 1:6.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | As for Complicatons, I think I'd look at the adventure and pick some areas--one or two or so--and try to pre-think possible Complications. I'd have "Complication enabled" encounters or zones on the adventure (though I wouldn't tell the players that). |
Yup I completely agree, the best ones would be the ones you are able to give some time and thought to before it happens in a given situation, but that is not always possible. Just so we are clear, I am agreeing with you, its a good habit to get into if you have the time to do so. I am sure you know players will often go 'off script' though. So you need to be prepared to improvise.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | If I saw a good place for Complication to add to the narrative or fit into the game, I might make those possible--and sometimes tell the Players ahead of time so that they know what they are risking.
For example, if the PCs are on Dagobah, climing up natural tree vines to get to the top of a cliff, I might say, "The vines here are slick and wet. Some are rotted. A Wild Die 1 will indicate that your vine broke, and you'll have a chance to catch yourself before falling to your death. |
As per above.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | There is the school of thought that Complications should go with the success/failure of the task. If a Complication is indicated by the dice, but the task is a success, try to think of a Complication that allows the task to be successful and the Complication to occur.
| Quote: | | You shoot the Stormtrooper, and the impact of your blaster bolt makes the trooper involuntarily squeeze of a shot from his own blaster. It goes wide and hits a tank on the corridor wall, which blows, collapsing the entire corridor. You have no where to go but to backtrack. |
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LOL, I somehow missed this when I suggested the two applications of a 'complication' earlier. We said the same thing.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a stipulation that suggests the roll has to be successful? I don't have access to my books at the moment, so I could be wrong, but I don't think that the "if successful" is part of the verbiage.
I did an article a LONG way back for the D6 Magazine on how the 1 works across the various rules iterations. And really, there are a lot of times that WEG just took it as a devastating critical failure regardless of circumstance -- a far too harsh rendering, IMO.
When possible, I tend to render the 1 as a complication. If you succeed, you succeed with a complication. If you fail, you fail with a complication. How do I take the sting out of it?
First, I make sure that the complication is interesting, rather than punishing. Usually the 1's are what my players have found to be the memorable parts of the adventures, sometimes even more so than the successes. For example, one time a player decided he was going to drop out of a speeder on to a rooftop, surprising a handful of stormtroopers. He rolled a 1. So the complication was that two of the stormtroopers were Royal Guards, dropped into the regular mix to keep their battle reflexes up (based on something mentioned in the Royal Guard flavor text). Rather than the quick tussle he assumed it would be (since he was a reasonably advanced character), it wound up being an incredible fight requiring a creative use of environment. He always talked about that afterward.
Also, I don't force it. If there's nothing that seems to fit that would make an interesting complication, I just take out the highest and lowest and see what happens. Trying to force a complication when something doesn't fit the setting or tone of the current flow of the adventure just makes the complication lame, rather than more interesting, then you're best off skipping it.
I'd say I also try to keep it creative. I try not to overuse the same devices over and over again. There's nothing more lame than "the power pack falls out of your blaster... again" for the third adventure in a row. It's got to keep the 1's fresh, or players will begin to dread them rather than rolling with it.
And if you have players that think that the complication on the 1 is no fun, then use one of the other rules options.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Is there a stipulation that suggests the roll has to be successful? I don't have access to my books at the moment, so I could be wrong, but I don't think that the "if successful" is part of the verbiage. |
| Quote: | REUP pg.73
"Total up the skill dice normally to see if the skill roll succeeded, but a “complication” occurs. (See “Complications” below.)"
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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For us, the wild die only explodes or is a regular die. We don't subtract the highest or assess a complication or whatever.
In fact, we call it the "lucky die." |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Is there a stipulation that suggests the roll has to be successful? |
The idea is that a Complication can happen if the task succeeds or not.
If the task succeeds, as pointed out above, then a Complication should occur with the task succeeding, as with my example above where the stormtrooper is shot, but him being shot cause him to flinch, fire his blaster, hit a container on the wall that blows up like a grenade and takes down the entire corridor. The PC blaster shot still succeeded, and a Complication occurred.
If the PC blaster shot failed, then you could say that his missed shot hit the same canister instead of the trooper, blowing the corridor up. |
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | For us, the wild die only explodes or is a regular die. We don't subtract the highest or assess a complication or whatever.
In fact, we call it the "lucky die." |
Same here |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: '1' on the Wild Die |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I don't follow. Do you mean 1. Anytime a '1' comes up on the Wild Die the GM can assess a 'complication", or 2. Anytime a '1' comes up on the Wild Die and the GM rolls 1D and it comes up a '6' the GM can assess a 'complication"? |
The second definition is what I meant. PC rolls a Wild Die "1" and that triggers rolling on the chart. Only a "6" on the chart indicates a complication.
I was saying that this does cut down on the number of complications, but it still presents too many complications over the course of a standard adventure. There are so many dice rolls in a game. A lot. If we're shooting for one or three complications during the span of a normal adventure--which is several game sessions--then that D6 rolling scheme reports too many Complications.
Which is why I suggested the latter: If the task is odd, and a Wild Die "1" appears, then subtract the "1" and the highest die from the task to lower the total.
If the task is even, and the Wild Die "1" appears, then just add up normally.
For Complications, have an idea where in the adventure the Complications are possible before you begin the adventure. If possible without meta-gaming, tell the players when they are in Complication danger.
I think this will cut down on the adversarial nature that some players feel when the GM imposes a Complication. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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If Complications are pre-thought by the GM before the adventure starts, then it is easier to have the Complication play into the plot.
The example in the book is that since Han got a Complication on his Sneak roll while sneaking up on the Scout Trooper on Endor, that triggered the events where Luke and Leia end up chasing escaping troopers--Leia falls off her speederbike and meets the Ewok. The Ewok meeting doesn't happen otherwise.
So, if the GM goes through the adventure and picks out, say, five* or so spots where a complication could change the narrative, he'll be much better prepared to have that complication feed into the overall story, with the GM looking like a genius Game Master to boot.
*I said five or so because we're shooting for 1 to 3 or so Complications over the entire adventure. Pre-thinking five or six Complication events covers the GM because the PCs aren't going to end up rolling a Complication every time. And, if a couple of Complications have already occurred in the adventure, then the GM can just ignore any other complication events that he has planned. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | cheshire wrote: | | Is there a stipulation that suggests the roll has to be successful? I don't have access to my books at the moment, so I could be wrong, but I don't think that the "if successful" is part of the verbiage. |
| Quote: | REUP pg.73
"Total up the skill dice normally to see if the skill roll succeeded, but a “complication” occurs. (See “Complications” below.)"
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Very cool. This is a step up, IMO in terms of how the REUP team phrased the rule. Though I think you and I are reading the rule differently in terms of the success conditions.
| shootingwomprats wrote: |
3. If the roll is successful, the GM may assess a 'complication'.
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If I follow your meaning, you seem to say, "if and only if the roll is successful, then add the complication." The way I read the statement by the REUP team, is "See if the roll is successful, add the complication if it is either successful or unsuccessful." The phrasing does leave it a little ambiguous. I'd be interested to hear from a member of the REUP team to see which interpretation they intended, though I'm not sure any self-identifying REUP members are on our board anymore.
Still, a step up from the R&E pg. 74
| Quote: |
For the first roll only, if the wild die comes up as a 1, the player must tell the gamemaster. The gamemaster can choose one of three options:
• Add up the dice normally.
• Total up the skill dice normally to see if the skill roll succeeded, but a "complication" occurs. (See "Complications" below.)
• Subtract the one and also subtract the highest
other die. |
Though a lot of GMs take this 1 as an opportunity to critical fail. (And in fact the D6 System book gives an example that reinforces that. But looking closely at the examples the R&E provides on pages 74 and 75 seem to describe complications on both success and failures.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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cheshire, the wording is the same in R&E as it is in REUP.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: '1' on the Wild Die |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | Per the rules, when a '1' comes up on the Wild Die the GM can do three things, choosing from these as best fits the current game situation, story, character actions, etc.
1. Nothing, add the dice pool normally.
2. Take away the Wild Die and the highest die in the dice pool.
Third option is one that, per the rules, most people get incorrect.
3. If the roll is successful, the GM may assess a 'complication'. |
I'd say 96% of the time i am a #2 guy, but when it makes sense (or is comical) i go for #3...
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Note that Complications should only be used once or twice in an entire adventure.
| Quote: | Page 74, SWR&E
You should use complications to help tell a more interesting and exciting story. Complications should only happen a couple of times in an adventure — most often during its dramatic conclusion — and should get the players excited and more involved in the game. |
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I always laughed at that, cause what one GM might consider an adventure (being an entire session), another GM could have it spread out over 3-4 game sessions..
| Shootingwamprats wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | I think I've met those very same players! Shocked
I had the same problem. The example in the book is the moment on Endor when Han stepped on a twig, made it snap, and blew his Sneak attempt to stealth up on the Scout Trooper. I know players that would really gripe at that if I just laid it on them. They want their Sneak to succeed.* |
Yes I always disliked that example, because its a "success" with a '1' on the Wild Die, GM assesses a 'complication', which means the roll fails and something bad happens. Which makes no sense to me. |
Actually if you look at the write up from page 75, it says "han THINKS he is successful
| Code: | • Han Solo is trying to sneak up on an Imperial scout trooper
in the forests of Endor. Han gets right up close to the trooper,
and thinks his sneak is successful, when CRACK!, he steps on
a twig, alerting the trooper. The snapping twig distracted
Han, giving the scout trooper the chance to make an attack. |
| Cheshire wrote: | | I'd say I also try to keep it creative. I try not to overuse the same devices over and over again. There's nothing more lame than "the power pack falls out of your blaster... again" for the third adventure in a row. It's got to keep the 1's fresh, or players will begin to dread them rather than rolling with it. |
Now i do have a bad habit of doing that.. reusing the same sort of complication (such as the you shoot the baddie, but as you shoot, your gun gives you the whine signal saying its out of energy)..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: |
If the task succeeds, as pointed out above, then a Complication should occur with the task succeeding, as with my example above where the stormtrooper is shot, but him being shot cause him to flinch, fire his blaster, hit a container on the wall that blows up like a grenade and takes down the entire corridor. The PC blaster shot still succeeded, and a Complication occurred.
If the PC blaster shot failed, then you could say that his missed shot hit the same canister instead of the trooper, blowing the corridor up. |
Or like i did, PC shot at enemy using missile launcher. Rolled a hit, but still got a complication. So had his shot, blow UP the launcher, which not only killed that trooper, but killed 4 others around him, and blew up the speeder they were in (which the party were wanting to steal)..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: |
So, if the GM goes through the adventure and picks out, say, five* or so spots where a complication could change the narrative, he'll be much better prepared to have that complication feed into the overall story, with the GM looking like a genius Game Master to boot.
*I said five or so because we're shooting for 1 to 3 or so Complications over the entire adventure. Pre-thinking five or six Complication events covers the GM because the PCs aren't going to end up rolling a Complication every time. And, if a couple of Complications have already occurred in the adventure, then the GM can just ignore any other complication events that he has planned. |
That's a good point Wajeb. The GM can prepare some spots to have a complication to occur, but the dice of the players may not cooperate.
| Shootingwomprats wrote: | | Though a lot of GMs take this 1 as an opportunity to critical fail. (And in fact the D6 System book gives an example that reinforces that. But looking closely at the examples the R&E provides on pages 74 and 75 seem to describe complications on both success and failures. |
I only call it a critical failure if ALL dice are a 1 (or close to it. IE if you roll 8d and 6 are ones, inc the wild die)..
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Argentsaber
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:08 am Post subject: Re: '1' on the Wild Die |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | I found that players were OK with it if the result was random rather than the thought of me picking on them with a complication. |
I like to involve the entire group in determining what the complication is rather than rolling, but it seems to work well. Typically, I let things go with a fairly minor complication unless the action was a bit outrageous anyway.
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