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garhkal
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 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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That's partially why each aspect, has their own dept heads..
Want the gunners tto do something, order the gunnery officer.
Need the ship to move, order the helmsman officer.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | That's partially why each aspect, has their own dept heads..
Want the gunners tto do something, order the gunnery officer.
Need the ship to move, order the helmsman officer. |
True, but if the only PC on the ship is the captain, they're having to balance multiple factors insofar as giving helm orders, weapons orders, shield orders, and so on and so forth. IMO, applying MAPs at this level makes sense.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bissler wrote: | | I'm thinking perhaps a -1D penalty for every 2 actions a Commander wants to carry out? |
How about a 1D penalty for every Skill being used, with an additional 1D for every additional ship being engaged with the ship's guns? g's right about how the group gestalt is going to be relatively resistant to MAPs as each individual will be concentrating on their own tasks.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bissler wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Alternately, you could apply MAPs to the Captain's Command skill for every action he's ordering the ship to take. So long as the ship is just traveling in a relatively straight line and shooting at the ISD, it would only count as a single action, but if he's also trying to evade incoming fire, or travel at All-Out, then he would have a lot more on his mental plate than he would under other circumstances. MAPs would make sense there. |
Yes, I think this works. I'm inclined to be a little lenient about MAPs here because actions could pile up quickly, for example:
Capital Ship Piloting (for movement)
Capital Ship Piloting (as reaction)
Capital Ship Gunnery x 6 (3 arcs with 2 weapons each)
...and that's assuming that the crew are dealing with Shields, Sensors, Astrogation without his command (which I would assume, but others may disagree.)
I'm thinking perhaps a -1D penalty for every 2 actions a Commander wants to carry out? |
You'd have to house-rule the command skill in such a case (or, as GM, you'd have to come up with a reasonable solution on the fly). Capital ship crews number far more than the command skill of any individual officer.
Rather, lower ranking officers may have their command skills boosted by the ship's commander (say, he has a command skill of 10D, and has 10 officers underneath him each with 8D). They would then make a "combined actions roll" (all giving orders to different groups to accomplish the same mission), so that a single command skill of 10D+2 (8D + 10 pips) is rolled, allowing, effectively, the one officer to "boost" the command of the 10, which effectively results in combined action bonuses applying to 100 crew members (for example).
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The Bissler
Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | You'd have to house-rule the command skill in such a case (or, as GM, you'd have to come up with a reasonable solution on the fly). Capital ship crews number far more than the command skill of any individual officer.
Rather, lower ranking officers may have their command skills boosted by the ship's commander (say, he has a command skill of 10D, and has 10 officers underneath him each with 8D). They would then make a "combined actions roll" (all giving orders to different groups to accomplish the same mission), so that a single command skill of 10D+2 (8D + 10 pips) is rolled, allowing, effectively, the one officer to "boost" the command of the 10, which effectively results in combined action bonuses applying to 100 crew members (for example). |
Naaman, house rules are our speciality...  
Seriously though, I'm trying to figure all of this out and put them down as a coherent set of house rules for when one of my players takes control of a capital ship.
I appreciate that your suggestion is probably more realistic, but I'm trying to cut out as much dice rolling as possible so I'm reluctant to do anything that would have me worrying about seeing what lower levels of staff are doing and making the associated rolls. Interesting idea though! |
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The Bissler
Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The Bissler wrote: | | I'm thinking perhaps a -1D penalty for every 2 actions a Commander wants to carry out? |
How about a 1D penalty for every Skill being used, with an additional 1D for every additional ship being engaged with the ship's guns? g's right about how the group gestalt is going to be relatively resistant to MAPs as each individual will be concentrating on their own tasks. |
I think I'm going to keep it simple by having the Commander just do one Command roll per turn. It does mean a slight tweaking of your Tactics charts (removing reference to MAPs) and having a win by 1-20 just receiving a 1D bonus and 21+ giving the same bonus but adding the ability to redeclare actions after the enemy declares theirs.
The fact is that the player running the Commander has plenty of other things on his plate, namely moving the ship and rolling dice for all of the weapons attacks, plus piloting rolls (mostly for reaction dodges).
I'll try to finish drawing up the first set of Capital Ship rules tomorrow and will then post up here in its entirety for further discussion. I do understand why other GMs might want more crunch to the rules, but I genuinely think this will be still be very involved even when we have boiled down everything as much as we are planning.
Note that these are CR McNeill's rules which I will be cherry-picking and putting together, I don't want this to come across as me trying to pass these off as my own! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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My only reservation there is that, if the rules become too simplified, it doesn't give the captain much to do apart from saying "I fire the starboard turbolaser batteries at the SD" once per round. A greater degree of crunch gives the captain more things to do....
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bissler wrote: | | I think I'm going to keep it simple by having the Commander just do one Command roll per turn. It does mean a slight tweaking of your Tactics charts (removing reference to MAPs) and having a win by 1-20 just receiving a 1D bonus and 21+ giving the same bonus but adding the ability to redeclare actions after the enemy declares theirs. |
A couple options:1) Instead of "ignore 1D of MAP", have it be "+1D to any pertinent skill (Gunnery, Piloting, Shields, etc).
2). Move the "Redeclare" option down one step, so that it occurs on the 11+ result.
Another option I've considered is an open-ended result, where for every +10 above the Base Difficulty, the winner receives an additional +1D that can be applied to either Initiative or any pertinent Skill. This will particularly reward characters with insanely high Tactics skill levels (cough*Thrawn*cough).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | That's partially why each aspect, has their own dept heads..
Want the gunners tto do something, order the gunnery officer.
Need the ship to move, order the helmsman officer. |
True, but if the only PC on the ship is the captain, they're having to balance multiple factors insofar as giving helm orders, weapons orders, shield orders, and so on and so forth. IMO, applying MAPs at this level makes sense. |
True.. If he's the only one barking orders, he should get MAP'ed..
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The Bissler
Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2016
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | My only reservation there is that, if the rules become too simplified, it doesn't give the captain much to do apart from saying "I fire the starboard turbolaser batteries at the SD" once per round. A greater degree of crunch gives the captain more things to do.... |
That's true - but it is the player who is the Captain/Commander who will be making all of the rolls for the ship so he won't feel short of things to do and rolls to make. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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A thought on this based on a private discussion...
I've already factored in Tactics allowing a character to anticipate their opponent's actions, as represented by allowing the winning Tactician to redeclare their actions once the opponent has declared theirs, but an additional possibility occurred to me: Surprise.
In effect, on a Tactics roll that succeeds by a large enough margin, the loser of the Tactics roll is Surprised (as per the official rules for Surprise on pg. 96 of the 2R&E Rulebook). In such a circumstance, the winner may make their first action before the loser can react, and the loser may not make any reaction skill rolls to counter it.
So, as far as the chart on the OP, the new version would read:1-10 = Winner receives +1D to Initiative.
11-20 = Anticipate (Winner may re-declare their actions after the loser has declared theirs)
21+ = Surprise (Loser is Surprised, as described above)
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Any reason you went on a 21+ scale?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Any reason you went on a 21+ scale? |
Mostly because it’s a pretty big advantage for you opponent to be unable to react, so I wanted to make sure it was only available to a really good Tactics roll.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Mostly because it’s a pretty big advantage for you opponent to be unable to react, so I wanted to make sure it was only available to a really good Tactics roll. |
I don't disagree, I typically use a 16+ modifier, call it: "tactical combat wounds".
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose if you wanted to make it happen more often, you could with a 5-point spread:1-5 = Initiative Bonus
6-10 = Anticipate
11-15 = Surprise
16+ = +1D bonus to one appropriate skill*
* +1D for every additional 5 points
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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