The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Star Trekkin'!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Miscellanea -> Star Trekkin'! Goto page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1446
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
The Star Trek Adventures RPG from Modiphius looks amazing.

I wish it weren't so expensive. I wants it!


I know, right?
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 5318
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:23 pm    Post subject: Rank Trek Reply with quote

This is updated from a 2010 thread on D6 Online...


TV Series
1. The Next Generation
2. Enterprise
3. The Original Series
4. The Animated Series

This is overall, the series as a whole. TNG started slow but got better and has the longest list of favorite episodes. Enterprise got better as it went along. TOS is the classic basis of the franchise but has a lot of duds, especially in the 3rd and final season.

I originally had Voyager and DS9 on the bottom, but now that I am slowly working through them I don't think it is fair to really rank them against the series I have seen completely. I haven't seen anything yet to displace the top three, but I am giving them a chance. And I love Discovery one season in, but likewise can't judge it as a series as a whole yet because it is not whole.

Overall Movies
1. Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness - TIE

The Star Trek movie series is really three series, and I can't compare the series against the other series except that I know like the above two films more than all the rest. I really like Star Trek Beyond but can't even compare that one to the other two films series. So an overall film ranking is just not going to happen!

TOS Movies
1. The Voyage Home
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. The Search for Spock
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. The Motion Picture
6. The Final Frontier


TNG Movies
1. Generations
2. First Contact
3. Insurrection
4. Nemesis

The top three TNG movies tend to shuffle around. I know linking Generations is unpopular, but it totally works for me. The icing on the cake is that ugly Enterprise-D gets destroyed. And Kirk gets two dramatic death scenes while functioning as a supporting character for Picard, and part of Kirk survives in an eternal sci-fi "heaven." Insurrection has some lame aspects like Worf’s acne, Data learning to play, and some slow parts, but I dig the new age message. It is a fitting end of the TNG movies. I don’t like Nemesis but I think that TFF is probably the overall worst of the 13 movies so far. TMP, TFF and Nemesis are not part of my personal Trek canon (although some alternate versions of those stories may have occurred in my personal Trek multiverse).

Enterprise Models
1. 1701 (refit) & 1701-A, Constitution-class refit (as featured in TOS movies)
2. 1701 (2250s), Constitution-class (as shown in Discovery)*
3. 1701 (alternate 2250s), Constitution-class (as featured in the last three movies)
4. 1701-B, Excelsior-class refit (as shown in the 23rd Century prologue of Generations)
5. 1701-E, Sovereign-class (as featured in the last three TNG movies)
6. NX-01, NX-class (as featured in Enterprise)
7. 1701-C, Ambassador-class (as shown in TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise")
8. 1701-D, Galaxy-class (as featured in TNG and Generations)
9. 1701 (2260s), Constitution-class (as featured in TOS after the pilots)

Although I saw the entire TOS and became a Trek fan before seeing any movies, to this day nothing beats the 1979 model. That ship is slick-looking!

* We’ve only seen this in the Season 1 cliffhanger ending of Discovery, so there is brief video and screen caps out there. Like with every Enterprise, they started with the original Enterprise as a basis, then they modernized it with added coloration, texture, and other details so it doesn’t look so painfully like 1960s sci-fi. But in this case they stayed truest to the original ship in shape, making it a nearly-idealized TOS Enterprise. (There is a nod to the refit and the alternate Constitution-class, plus a couple Discovery design features.) But the asterisk is to make this ship’s ranking tentative because it was seen so briefly. We will undoubtedly see more of it in Season 2 of Discovery (which starts in January) because Captain Pike and Mr. Spock will appear.


CHARACTERS

The Original Series
* LOVE: Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty
* LIKE: Uhura, Sulu, Checkov

The Next Generation
* LOVE: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf
* LIKE: Yar
* ACCEPT AS OK: LaForge, Troi, Dr. Crusher
* INDIFFERENT: Pulaski, Chief O'Brien
* DISLIKE: Wesley Crusher, Guinan, Barclay

Enterprise
* LIKE: Archer, T'Pol, Trip, Sato, Phlox
* ACCEPT AS OK: Mayweather
* INDIFFERENT: Reed

Deep Space Nine *
* LIKE: Quark, Worf
* ACCEPT AS OK: Jadzia Dax, Bashir, Odo
* INDIFFERENT: Kira, Chief O'Brien, Jake Sisko
* DISLIKE: Benjamin Sisko, Garak

Voyager *
* LIKE: The Doctor, Chakotay
* INDIFFERENT: Paris, Torres, Kim, Kes
* DISLIKE: Tuvok, Janeway, Neelix

I haven’t seen all of these last two series. I’m on Season 3 for DS9 for my straight-through but I have seen a few various later episodes with Worf. Some DS9 characters have actually moved up to a higher level, and I am open to liking DS9 and VOY characters and the series more as time goes on.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KageRyu
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 995
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Enterprise Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
KageRyu wrote:
I did not care for Enterprise at first, but after setting aside a few issues with timeline a watching a few of the more conflict oriented episodes it did grow on me.

I'm curious what your timeline issues were. Did you notice that in the Seasons 4 opener where they completely resolved the Temporal Cold War, part of the resolution was that the temporal war never even happened in the first place? The resolution to the temporal war that kicked off ENT season 4 completely erased certain episodes from the timeline and may have altered others. What exactly the new timeline was wasn't specified because they completely moved on from it after that, never referring to it again. It is not even clear what the Enterprise characters remember from the temporal war. But it allows for a lot of discrepancies to be easily resolved, paving the way for the series to mend itself back with the rest of the franchise in Season 4...

Sadly my timeline issues had almost nothing to do with the Temporal Cold War arc, and were not resolved by season 4 - they go much deeper. I am somewhat reluctant to go into extreme detail, but I will say it was based on direct contradictions to a history of the Federation and This part of the galaxy as directly detailed over a number of years by Roddenberry himself when he was still alive, but not shown on screen. This was through multiple background books that were created, edited, and/or produced by Gene Roddenberry , often in conjuction with other authors, and numerous interviews and behind the scenes articles in the infamous Starlog, Fangoria, and several other magazines. Given I no longer have many of my magazines (destroyed in flooding in my dad's basement) I can no longer show proof - and I recall the negativity when I brought up such material pertaining to Star Wars some time ago. Still, for me, having grown up with and been aware of said material (as with the Star Wars material) it is fact and affects how I perceive new material for the franchise. Some of it was contradicted right in episode 1 of Enterprise - actually, what I considered a major point, and so I did not watch the series much past the moment it did so until years later in reruns. Of course, I was already upset by the fact the series named the main Ship Enterprise and directly contradicted the established fact from both TOS and ST movies that Kirk's Enterprise was the first starship to bear the name.

What finally got me to give it a chance was one of the episodes from the
Expanse. One of my friends at the time was watching it, and he was a fan, so even though we had plans, I had to wait for it to end. During the battle, several phaser hits penetrated the saucer, and in the debris I could see human shapes floating out into space, and I thought, nice they finally took off the gloves (I hated how muted the action in Voyager was...often times when Voyager should have returned fire they fled or negotiated or surrendered, really bothered me). So I watched another episode, the next week, and it was the one with the Trellium mine, and I loved how the crews response to kidnapped officers wasn't to barter but to send in the marines. So then I decided the series had some teeth that might overshadow it's shortcomings and gave it a chance.
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 5318
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu, thanks for a detailed answer to my curiosity. Yeah the first two seasons of Enterprise were pretty generic exploration Trek, then the third season was unprecedented in Trek - The entire season is actually a single military mission. The ship even had MACOs. The first season of Discovery involves a war with a faction of Klingons.

When I was a kid in the mid-80s, I read up on Trek and all the lore I could get my hands on. I ate it up. I do understand that if the Enterprise series contradicted your head-canon based on non-canon elements from Roddenberry then the show could be seen as contradictory. It's your prerogative, but that is extremely selective because Roddenberry contradicted himself and Trek made with Roddenberry's involvement also contradicted earlier lore. In early TOS episodes, there was no Federation or Starfleet. There was "United Earth Space Probe Agency" and later "Star Fleet". But fans say that they were still getting their footing then so it is forgivable. And the first season of TNG made official changes (approved by Roddenberry) to then-accepted Trek lore, but TNG is so beloved by fans it gets a pass. I know a lot of fans didn't like ENT, but holding non-canon against it is an unnecessary restriction to enjoyment of Trek. I'm glad to see you were able to get past it somewhat for ENT Season 3.

Regarding the one specific thing you mentioned, the history of ships named Enterprise, there isn't a contradiction. Kirk's Enterprise was never the first starship bearing its name. The TOS Enterprise was the first Federation starship named Enterprise. In the lore and ship chronologies appearing in the background of Roddenberry productions, there were Earth ships named Enterprise before the Federation existed (For example, see the XCV-330). The ENT show takes place before the Federation existed, so it's Enterprise is an Earth ship and Kirk's ship is still the first Federation starship named Enterprise. The Federation formed after the Earth-Romulan War, and ENT takes place before that war. The lore was honored.

So the only retcon is this particular Enterprise model wasn't shown in those prior background chronologies made before the production of ENT. To each his own, but I find I don't mind. ENT Season 3 was pretty good overall, but the producers of Season 4 making a conscientious effort for ENT to conform with TOS and the rest of the franchise turned out what in my opinion is one of the best single seasons of any Star Trek series.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pel
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Enterprise versions, am I the only one who was disappointed by the 1701-E? For a dedicated battleship, it never really did much.

First Contact: Taken over by the Borg. Ok, I'll give them that one.
Insurrection: Slapped around by the Sona. Yeah, Riker's manly piloting triumphed, but the ship mostly ran away.
Nemesis: Shields collapsing, weapons offline, crew perishing...Ramming Speed! Even that didn't stop the evil Romulan dreadnought.

So, for what was supposed to be the last word in rump-kickery, I found it very underwhelming.
_________________
Aha!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 5318
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
Speaking of Enterprise versions, am I the only one who was disappointed by the 1701-E? For a dedicated battleship, it never really did much.

First Contact: Taken over by the Borg. Ok, I'll give them that one.
Insurrection: Slapped around by the Sona. Yeah, Riker's manly piloting triumphed, but the ship mostly ran away.
Nemesis: Shields collapsing, weapons offline, crew perishing...Ramming Speed! Even that didn't stop the evil Romulan dreadnought.

So, for what was supposed to be the last word in rump-kickery, I found it very underwhelming.

That's like saying that Batman should just go get Superman to take care of all the non-powered villains in Gotham. If the Enterprise-E (or any other Enterprise) easily outmatched any enemies, there would be no drama and that doesn't make for very good fiction. Also, E was only seen three times total, once every couple years of her mission. I think we can presume that lots of boring things happened where the ship easily bested her opponents - Those things happened "offscreen" and aren't important enough to be made into movies.

And in Nemesis, where the human clone that took control of the Romulan Empire had that ultra-powerful deadly green stuff, the dune buggy scene was less disappointing than the Enterprise (or the entire rest of the film).

When I ranked Enterprise models above, I was only basing that on aesthetics. E is definitely my least favorite design that first appeared in films, but it is still cooler looking than all the TV Enterprises (except for the new Discovery model, probably).
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
thedemonapostle
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 233
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
Speaking of Enterprise versions, am I the only one who was disappointed by the 1701-E? For a dedicated battleship, it never really did much.

First Contact: Taken over by the Borg. Ok, I'll give them that one.
Insurrection: Slapped around by the Sona. Yeah, Riker's manly piloting triumphed, but the ship mostly ran away.
Nemesis: Shields collapsing, weapons offline, crew perishing...Ramming Speed! Even that didn't stop the evil Romulan dreadnought.

So, for what was supposed to be the last word in rump-kickery, I found it very underwhelming.


while it was a technologically advanced ship, it was not a warship. it was primarily designed as an exploratory heavy cruiser but as the borg threat became more problematic, the design was augmented with borg defense in mind.

and in each movie you listed, the 1701-E is seriously outgunned.
_________________
Aim low, shoot high
I'm a pirate, need I say more?

d6holocron.com: Thedemonapostle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pel
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite Engineers:

  1. Montgomery Scott: the original and the miracle worker
  2. Miles O'Brien: one of the few who could fuse Federation and Cardassian tech into a working station. He's also the Chekov of DS9, in that whenever someone is kidnapped or tortured, it's usually him.
  3. Geordi LaForge: a good engineer, but too by-the-book until much later in his career.
  4. Trip Tucker: very likable character but overshadowed by other characters.
  5. B'Leanna Torres: it took a while for her character to settle into the series and she was constantly overshadowed by Janeway and Seven of Nine.

_________________
Aha!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Miscellanea All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0