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Pel
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe he just spent a Force Point?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Pel wrote: | | Maybe he just spent a Force Point? |
If he did, then per the RAW, any player character could've done it, Force Sensitive or not.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Which is something i've brought up a # of times before to show that he couldn't have been using concentration.. |
Or (as suggested by the title of this topic) that Concentration should be rewritten so that it could be used as described. |
I could see it being re-wrote to where you can use it while doing multiple things in the round, but the bonus still only going to one skill roll.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Which is something i've brought up a # of times before to show that he couldn't have been using concentration.. |
It's more likely that the game designers poorly conveyed their intent with wording that was not precise enough. Given that they used the death star kill shot as the example, it's plainly obvious that the intent of the power was to be used in situations exactly like the climactic scene in ANH.
Also, I may be wrong, but I'm not certain that flying in a straight line requires a piloting check per RAW no matter how fast you're going. If I'm not mistaken, a piloting check is only triggered when a maneuver is required that has a penalty for failure (such as crashing) or when opposed by another pilot. Is that correct? (Yes, I realize an argument can be made that the narrow confines of the trench constitute a kind of risk that requires unusually steady flying, but it's possible that the game designers did not think so when they wrote up the example for concentration).
Last edited by Naaman on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Pel wrote: | | Maybe he just spent a Force Point? |
Per the example given for concentration, he used BOTH the concentration power AND spent a force point. |
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Pel
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I finally dug up the Concentration description. For some reason I thought it appeared in the Rules Companion. Seems straightforward enough. Without repeating the excellent prior comments, this power is a good limited duration boost to give Jedi a bit of extra oomph without burning a Force Point every time they need to perform a minor miracle.
The specific mention that it's compatible with Force Points is reserved for major miracles and other galaxy altering events. All well and good. I'm leaving the power alone in my games.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I could see it being re-wrote to where you can use it while doing multiple things in the round, but the bonus still only going to one skill roll. |
This works. The RAW already penalizes taking multiple actions via MAPs. Far simpler to just remove that restriction in the Concentration power and allow players to take penalties as normal, with the +4D modifier to one skill taken into account.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: |
Also, I may be wrong, but I'm not certain that flying in a straight line requires a piloting check per RAW no matter how fast you're going. If I'm not mistaken, a piloting check is only triggered when a maneuver is required that has a penalty for failure (such as crashing) or when opposed by another pilot. Is that correct? . |
As ive shown before, the trench run is one of the books listed examples of flying through moderate terrain, ergo it IS a rolled action at reg speed, with the diff going up for double or all out speeds..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I could see it being re-wrote to where you can use it while doing multiple things in the round, but the bonus still only going to one skill roll. |
This works. The RAW already penalizes taking multiple actions via MAPs. Far simpler to just remove that restriction in the Concentration power and allow players to take penalties as normal, with the +4D modifier to one skill taken into account. |
So how's about this as a re-write.
CONCENTRATION
Control, Easy or moderate diff (if stressed, its moderate, if at calm, its easy).
When using this power, a jedi can perform multiple actions in the round as normal, taking the normal MAPS, but when he activates this power, he gains a +4d bonus to ONE action he does in said round.
IE Tim is wishing to run through a burning building, while searching for the exit, and is carrying his fallen comrade.
His running skill is 4d+2, his lifting is 6d+2 and his search is 7d+1. So with the -2d MAPS he only has a 2d+2/4d+2/6d+1 left. His comrade's weight is not that high, so only needs a 10 for his lifting, which would easily be hit by 4d+2. However the terrain is very trecherous, so he needs at least a 20.
So Tim's character decides to activate Concentration (a 4th skill use in the round, making all others be at -3d now), but adds +4d to his running skill, boosting it to 5d+2 after MAPS are taken into account. He still has 4d+1 for his search (ave of 15, more than enough to spot the exit), and lifting of 3d+2 (should be adequate to still hit the 10 score he needs).
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: |
It's more likely that the game designers poorly conveyed their intent with wording that was not precise enough. Given that they used the death star kill shot as the example, it's plainly obvious that the intent of the power was to be used in situations exactly like the climactic scene in ANH. |
Maybe they assumed that R2 was of some assistance there...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Considering Artoo was effectively Incapacitated when Luke made the torpedo shot, I doubt it.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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True. Though he does have 6d piloting, 4d gunnery.
(PS how do you like my new signature).
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Considering Artoo was effectively Incapacitated when Luke made the torpedo shot, I doubt it. |
| garhkal wrote: | | True. Though he does have 6d piloting, 4d gunnery. |
Artoo was shot by Vader and burnt toast at that point. Luke said, "I've lost Artoo." Artoo's skills were definitely no help. Turning off the targeting computer, losing the droid assistant - It's all part of the message that also included Vader's line to Admiral Motti. Don't overly depend on technology. Technology does not provide salvation. Lucas and Joseph Campbell have both said stated this meaning.
Speaking of which, we've talked about not getting the fire control bonus when using an FP. Should that apply to Concentration?
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Considering Artoo was effectively Incapacitated when Luke made the torpedo shot, I doubt it. |
Right. Then Obi-Wan is the only option, then. 8)
But seriously, since all this "computer lock", and watching the first Y-Wing run where one of the pilots is all the time focused on targeting computer, effectively preventing him from seeing anything via cockpit, could they go on some autopilot that is locked on the target? I mean, no maneuvering at all, straight line flight, except few scenes.
As for Concentration, per RAW you can use it to boost First Aid, which:
| SWREUP wrote: | | (...)reflects a character’s ability to perform emergency life saving procedures in the field. |
all in one round (quick diagnosis, stopping bleeding, administer painkillers ect).
but
performing Force Push (here Projected Fighting) is not possible in one round as this power requires two skill checks.
By the way, from RAW:
| Quote: | Characters piloting a ship at “all-out” speed may not do
anything else in the round, including starship dodges or
firing the ship’s weapons. |
Meanwhile, above the DS
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Right. Then Obi-Wan is the only option, then. |
Or, here's a crazy thought; maybe Luke did it, because to pull it off required someone of prodigious Force sensitivity. Not that the WEG rules were particularly clear on that.
| Quote: | | But seriously, since all this "computer lock", and watching the first Y-Wing run where one of the pilots is all the time focused on targeting computer, effectively preventing him from seeing anything via cockpit, could they go on some autopilot that is locked on the target? I mean, no maneuvering at all, straight line flight, except few scenes. |
No evidence exists in the films for any sort of auto-pilot for starfighters in real space.
| Quote: | By the way, from RAW:
| Quote: | Characters piloting a ship at “all-out” speed may not do
anything else in the round, including starship dodges or
firing the ship’s weapons. |
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The generally accepted premise is that Luke was flying at Full Speed (x2 base Move) and not All-Out. "Going in Full Throttle," "Increase Speed to Full Throttle" and all that...
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Not that the WEG rules were particularly clear on that. |
Or he slowed down one level just round before making the shot? Nah, that just unlikely.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | No evidence exists in the films for any sort of auto-pilot for starfighters in real space. |
Meanwhile in TPM:
| Quote: | | "Artoo, get us off this autopilot! It's gonna get us both killed!" |
and TESB:
| Quote: | | "That's all right. I'd like to keep it on manual control for a while." |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The generally accepted premise is that Luke was flying at Full Speed (x2 base Move) and not All-Out. "Going in Full Throttle," "Increase Speed to Full Throttle" and all that... |
So, someone came up with terminology "Full Throttle" and then...."Fuller Throttle"? Just as if this control could be pushed 180 degrees more?
Still, in the movie they made attack max speed cause the time was short and no chance for second approach, which is logical.
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