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Pel
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Joined: 10 May 2006
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Location: Texas
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: |
Still, in the movie they made attack max speed cause the time was short and no chance for second approach, which is logical. |
They did make multiple runs, just with different fighters between the two squadrons. Don't forget they were moving at "full speed" to evade turbolaser fire and to stave off the TIEs. I'd fly as fast as I could too.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Pel wrote: | | Don't forget they were moving at "full speed" to evade turbolaser fire and to stave off the TIEs. I'd fly as fast as I could too. |
That logical. However, as per RAW, moving at full speed prevents ship from making dodge attempts.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Or he slowed down one level just round before making the shot? Nah, that just unlikely. |
Where is the evidence he did so?
| Quote: | Meanwhile in TPM:
| Quote: | | "Artoo, get us off this autopilot! It's gonna get us both killed!" |
and TESB:
| Quote: | | "That's all right. I'd like to keep it on manual control for a while." |
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Ah, yes, the oh so memorable dialogue of TPM. I had quite forgotten. As to the ESB quote, "manual control" could be distinct from allowing Artoo to pilot the ship, which isn't quite the same as an auto-pilot.
But this actually disproves your point; if starfighters do have auto-pilots, then use of an auto-pilot was never mentioned by Luke during the trench run. Ergo, there is no indication of him actually using it.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Pel wrote: | | Don't forget they were moving at "full speed" to evade turbolaser fire and to stave off the TIEs. I'd fly as fast as I could too. |
That logical. However, as per RAW, moving at full speed prevents ship from making dodge attempts. |
Moving at full (double) speed does allow for dodges, all out is where you get no other action.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
But this actually disproves your point; if starfighters do have auto-pilots, then use of an auto-pilot was never mentioned by Luke during the trench run. Ergo, there is no indication of him actually using it. |
The main point is that rule "you cannot do anything else just because throttle is set up to max" seems to be wrong. Trigger do not get magically blocked there.
| garhkal wrote: |
Moving at full (double) speed does allow for dodges, all out is where you get no other action. |
To avoid any misunderstanding I recommend calling "double speed" an "attack speed" (mentioned in movies) and "full speed/throttle" (from movies) "all out/max speed" as it should be.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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But this is a universe where multiple terms are used for the same thing: "lightspeed" and "hyperspace", for example.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I see that d6 Space got the all-out speed + actions right, effectively fixing it.
As for the Concentration:
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The RAW already penalizes taking multiple actions via MAPs. Far simpler to just remove that restriction in the Concentration power and allow players to take penalties as normal, with the +4D modifier to one skill taken into account. |
This is optimal solution in my opinion too.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Kytross wrote: |
Do you guys allow players to roll a reactive dodge if they've used Concentration in the round? |
As per the power, they can't do anything else in the round, Including dodging.. |
But, also per WEG's rules, Luke couldn't've made his Piloting roll for flying at Full Speed while simultaneously firing his Proton Torpedoes. The point of this conversation is that, while WEG has stated that this was the power Luke used to fire his pro-torps, the power as written does not allow him to do so. |
Well, travelling in a straight line, is that an action in space?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | I see that d6 Space got the all-out speed + actions right, effectively fixing it. |
I don't really think they got it right, but I do think it points in the proper direction.
If you look at the math, the amount of speed gained vs. Difficulty required just scales up too quickly. If you get to double your speed every +5 in Difficulty, a character with even a few dice in Running can very quickly achieve superhuman speeds. For a character with a base Move of 10, 80 meters in one round (5 seconds) is only Moderate Difficulty. Basically, anyone with 4D or more in Running has a better-than-even chance of blowing Usain Bolt's world record 100 meter sprint speed out of the water.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Well, travelling in a straight line, is that an action in space? |
They weren't traveling in a straight line in the trench runs though. The Death Star is curved. It's just so big that the curvature isn't that obvious to the naked eye. But moving at the speeds Star Wars starfighters move, if they had really travelled in a straight line they would have flown up out of the trench after not so long.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Darklighter79 wrote: | | I see that d6 Space got the all-out speed + actions right, effectively fixing it. |
I don't really think they got it right, but I do think it points in the proper direction. |
Actually, I take it back. They got the human movement wrong by making it way too easy to achieve incredibly high speeds, but they kept vehicle movement the same, and just took away the "no other action per round" from All-Out. Personally, I think that's a bit too far; I'm not a fan of absolute prohibitions of actions in the SWU, as I think characters should be able to at least attempt to do something extremely difficult.
Maybe a middle ground between 2R&E and D6 Space, where things like All-Out Moves and Full Reactions count double for MAP purposes...
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | but they kept vehicle movement the same, and just took away the "no other action per round" from All-Out. |
This is the change I had in mind. It seems illogical that according to RAW at all-out speed pilot can make "dodges" in dense asteroid field to avoid collision by testing his piloting skill and at the same time cannot make regular dodge against laser fire in open space. Visually, in movie, it would be the same rapid maneuvers:
1) Roll one
2) Roll two
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | They got the human movement wrong by making it way too easy to achieve incredibly high speeds, |
You mean roll 5 to run fast (x2) as base difficulty? I have not got into this yet...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | but they kept vehicle movement the same, and just took away the "no other action per round" from All-Out. |
This is the change I had in mind. It seems illogical that according to RAW at all-out speed pilot can make "dodges" in dense asteroid field to avoid collision by testing his piloting skill and at the same time cannot make regular dodge against laser fire in open space. Visually, in movie, it would be the same rapid maneuvers: |
They're not really 'rolling a dodge' though they are just maneuvering Through the debris fields.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
They're not really 'rolling a dodge' though they are just maneuvering Through the debris fields. |
That's why I used put dodge in "".
But that was not the point.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to agree. I'm okay with putting hard limits on technology (rates of fire, maximum velocities for starships and vehicles, etc), but I prefer an open-ended Difficulty system for characters. This can still make things effectively impossible by putting the Difficulty far outside the reach of even PCs (sans FP use), but still be theoretically possible. This makes it somewhat easier to describe the seeming script immunity of film characters.
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