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Simulating Saving Throws discussion
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Kahn265
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Simulating Saving Throws discussion Reply with quote

As I mentioned in my welcome post, I'm going to be running Starfinder, specifically Dead Suns, in the D6 system. As I look at converting the aliens and monsters over I'm dealing with concepts that d6 doesn't directly support.

First up, Saving Throws. Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Let's discuss how to handle these in a way that is natural to d6.

My first idea is having them roll a relevant attribute...

Strength for Fortitude
Dexterity for Reflex
Perception for Will

without adding too much overhead, what are some other ideas?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Simulating Saving Throws discussion Reply with quote

Kahn265 wrote:
As I mentioned in my welcome post, I'm going to be running Starfinder, specifically Dead Suns, in the D6 system. As I look at converting the aliens and monsters over I'm dealing with concepts that d6 doesn't directly support.

First up, Saving Throws. Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Let's discuss how to handle these in a way that is natural to d6.

My first idea is having them roll a relevant attribute...

Strength for Fortitude
Dexterity for Reflex
Perception for Will

without adding too much overhead, what are some other ideas?



I use strength or Stamina for most things covered by a "fortitude" save from d20.

Poison, damage from cold heat, etc etc all is used with str or stamina, the highest of the two

Most things "reflex" are covered under dex or dodge, taking reduced effect from aoe etc etc

Knoledge (and Perception) and willpower both and each really cover most things "will based" with perception being more related to the chrisma type efects, and the Knowledge more on the int/will based effects.

Willpower skill can here be used.


so the rules do have these , but they are spesifically saving throws, and more situational where the GM requires a roll and a roll seems appropriate.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Simulating Saving Throws discussion Reply with quote

Kahn265 wrote:
Perception for Will

without adding too much overhead, what are some other ideas?
Mamatried wrote:
Willpower skill can here be used.

Kahn, are you playing 1e or 2e? If playing 1e, Perception can be used for 'Will save' types of rolls since there is no willpower skill and Perception is used to resist the Force. But if playing 2e, I agree with Mama that the willpower skill can be used, at least for non-Force related willpower situations.

But there really is no need to 'simulate' saving throws in D6. The D6 system already has the concepts baked into the cake of the main system - No special rules needed.
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Kahn265
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll be doing 2e, I think. Movement is a bit more sensible in my mind.

I thought about the Stamina/Willpower skills, but after reading those skills, for some reason I am not quite 100% sold as they feel a tad diff to me.

Then again, group will need to improve them over time.
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Kahn265
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, i love "Whill" as a forum handle - nice deep cut in Canon
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Kahn265
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, just did a walk to the coffee shop and back and thought about it. Since there has to be an increase in ability of "Saves" over time, we'll go with the skills.

Dodge = Reflex
Willpower = Will
Stamina = Fortitude

Updated the character sheet I'll be handing out. Comments and Criticism are welcome.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VVj93x9gSAs35cfXtSjyGLexP2FKPnCA
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as how D6 already has a Willpower skill under Knowledge, I'd suggest using Knowledge for the Will save instead of Perception.

In fact, the WEG systems effectively uses Saving Throws for everything by not using a hit point system. Regular combat damage could be interpreted as a Saving Throw against Damage
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kahn265 wrote:
OK, just did a walk to the coffee shop and back and thought about it. Since there has to be an increase in ability of "Saves" over time, we'll go with the skills.

Dodge = Reflex
Willpower = Will
Stamina = Fortitude

Updated the character sheet I'll be handing out. Comments and Criticism are welcome.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VVj93x9gSAs35cfXtSjyGLexP2FKPnCA

I like the skill set and character sheet. I'm really interested in how you would have the Sense Motive skill work in D6. Can you elucidate?

Kahn265 wrote:
We'll be doing 2e, I think. Movement is a bit more sensible in my mind.
CRMcNeill wrote:
Seeing as how D6 already has a Willpower skill under Knowledge, I'd suggest using Knowledge for the Will save instead of Perception.

He does have Willpower under Knowledge, as in 2e.

CRMcNeill wrote:
In fact, the WEG systems effectively uses Saving Throws for everything by not using a hit point system. Regular combat damage could be interpreted as a Saving Throw against Damage

I agree.

Kahn265 wrote:
Btw, i love "Whill" as a forum handle - nice deep cut in Canon

Thanks. I was inspired by the prologue to the original Star Wars novelization and the Annotated Screenplays book that talked about the Whills in earlier drafts of the script. Oh, that and the fact that my name is Will.
Cool
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Kahn265
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

I like the skill set and character sheet. I'm really interested in how you would have the Sense Motive skill work in D6. Can you elucidate?


I was thinking of treating is as an opposed roll (I like opposed rolls).

If the target of sense motive was hiding something, it's be Bluff vs. Sense Motive.

If the target was NOT hiding something, I'd probably just do an easy or moderate check. If the wild die rolls a one, the person sensing thinks they are hiding SOMETHING, not what they are actually hiding.

Example.
I roll at 19 on Sense motive but have a 1 on the wild die against someone telling the truth. I believe that 1. They are telling the truth, but 2. They are hiding that they are actually a lizard person.


The mechanic is essentially the same as the "To-Hit" mechanic - if they don't dodge it's a 10. If they do, it's their dodge roll.

Quote:
. I was inspired by the prologue to the original Star Wars novelization and the Annotated Screenplays


*Steals "Whill's" journal*
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the Ubese (Yrak pootzck) sub species then this is a very good way to show how "saving throws" are integrated and work in 2e rules.

The species have a +1D to stamina (used among other things to reist environmental damage etc)

This is conditional, to a type 1 atmosphere but in relity this is a +X to fortitude save.

Tht being said resisting is a saving throw, and if we look to AOE, like a fireball or a grenade, then I can not see the diference in making a skill/attribute check to negateor reduce damage or effect as any really different than a saving throw.

I was shot in the chest, I didn't take enough damage to instantly die, so no need for a save vs death.
If I did take enough damage to maybe be killed by sheer force, then rolling a stamina check IS the saving throw, I made the stamina check with X reducing the effect by Y.


I took enough damage to die, but my stamina roll (when applicable) made me survive long enough for my mates to get me to a bacta tank etc.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Seeing as how D6 already has a Willpower skill under Knowledge, I'd suggest using Knowledge for the Will save instead of Perception.

He does have Willpower under Knowledge, as in 2e.

I wrote out my reply then had to go run an errand, so it didn't get posted until I got back. By that time, he'd already replied.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortitude: Stamina
Reflex: Dodge
Will: Willpower
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For whatever it's worth, d20 Saga edition merged the notion of "defense" (that is, armor class) with the concept of saving throws, such that all characters had a "fortitude defense," a "reflex defense" and a "will defense." Any given attack would make it's roll against the target's appropriate defense stat.

This is basically the d20 version of how D6 handles it. Whereas Starfinder (if I'm not mistaken) is based on d20 3.5 (while Saga might be considered d20 5.0).
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
For whatever it's worth, d20 Saga edition merged the notion of "defense" (that is, armor class) with the concept of saving throws, such that all characters had a "fortitude defense," a "reflex defense" and a "will defense." Any given attack would make it's roll against the target's appropriate defense stat.


Also hit points can be considered as a part of this "defense group".
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