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Shields
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Red 331
Lieutenant Commander
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Red 331 wrote:
I think that still leaves things a little open to interpretation if you fail the shields skill roll, in terms of if you still can benefit from the shields in their previous settings, or if the roll failure means that you can no longer utilize the shield benefits in ANY of the arcs until you make a successful roll to raise shields. I think I lean towards the latter, but I think you can argue either way given the opacity of the RAW.

If the last setting remains in effect until realigns them, then it is whatever the current setting in effect when the attacks hits that's is defending your ship, not you roll. The roll is to change the setting, not for any specific attacks. The reaction aspect of it just gives you a chance to change the setting before the attacks hits.


I think your interpretation is definitely one legitimate way to look at it, Whill. But I think there's enough gap in the RAW that you could interpret a failed shields roll as a failure to raise shields at all, resulting in no shields benefit until your next successful shields roll. In other words, by choosing to change the settings, you have to turn the shields "off" from their previous settings before attempting to raise them in their new configuration. That would be my "mean GM" interpretation, vs. your "nice GM" Smile But I reserve the right to change my opinion on that given my previous flip-flops on my interpretation of the rules!

But yes, I agree, once you have shields up, I like the interpretation of RAW that you don't have to bother rolling again to bring shields up unless and until you want to change the settings, and can just leave them in their current configuration, automatically gaining the shields benefit according to that configuration, until a change in settings is declared.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some thought, I think making the Shields skill both an action and a reaction would included simply so there would be a clear path in the RAW for declaring Shield repositioning after the declaration of actions at the beginning of the round.

For instance, if four TIE fighters are attacking a light freighter, they would have to declare their Movement and Attack actions. However, if Shields are a reaction - and are specified by the RAW to be usable as such, the Shield Operator may simply wait until the incoming attacks have been declared before deciding how he wishes to reposition the shields to best defend against the attack.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
After some thought, I think making the Shields skill both an action and a reaction would included simply so there would be a clear path in the RAW for declaring Shield repositioning after the declaration of actions at the beginning of the round.

For instance, if four TIE fighters are attacking a light freighter, they would have to declare their Movement and Attack actions. However, if Shields are a reaction - and are specified by the RAW to be usable as such, the Shield Operator may simply wait until the incoming attacks have been declared before deciding how he wishes to reposition the shields to best defend against the attack.

Exactly.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill, I had a thought based on what you said over on the Power Rerouting topic
Whill wrote:
Take a look at the shield generators in GG6. It says it is nearly impossible to modify them and gives no rules for doing so. That's actually what I based the statement on about modifying aux power generators.

Earlier you mentioned 3D Shields in the same arc being more like three 1D shields layered over each other in an effect similar to spaced armor. This got me thinking about a statement somewhere in one of the X-Wing books where Coruscant's planetary shield was composed of two layers, with the outer layer being projected through micro-openings in the inner layer.

This, IMO, is a possible method of capping shield dice and/or explaining why it's so hard to modify them for greater strength. It's not that more power can't be shunted to the outer layers of stacked 2D or 3D value shields; it's that only so much power can be projected through the micro-openings on the inner layers of the shield, and that it is virtually impossible to increase that power level without impairing the integrity of the shields as a whole (i.e. any modifications almost instantly are counteracted by the law of diminishing returns).

At most, a single D of extra dice can be routed to the systems (Auxiliary Power) without running into overload / burnout / integrity issues. And extant ships with very powerful shield generators (the Gamma Assault Shuttle, the Executor, etc) are equipped with very large, power-hungry shield generation systems.

In fact, I was considering downgrading the Shields on the Executor to 4D, and this would give me a valid reason to do so...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill, I had a thought based on what you said over on the Power Rerouting topic
Whill wrote:
Take a look at the shield generators in GG6. It says it is nearly impossible to modify them and gives no rules for doing so. That's actually what I based the statement on about modifying aux power generators.

Earlier you mentioned 3D Shields in the same arc being more like three 1D shields layered over each other in an effect similar to spaced armor. This got me thinking about a statement somewhere in one of the X-Wing books where Coruscant's planetary shield was composed of two layers, with the outer layer being projected through micro-openings in the inner layer.

This, IMO, is a possible method of capping shield dice and/or explaining why it's so hard to modify them for greater strength. It's not that more power can't be shunted to the outer layers of stacked 2D or 3D value shields; it's that only so much power can be projected through the micro-openings on the inner layers of the shield, and that it is virtually impossible to increase that power level without impairing the integrity of the shields as a whole (i.e. any modifications almost instantly are counteracted by the law of diminishing returns).

At most, a single D of extra dice can be routed to the systems (Auxiliary Power) without running into overload / burnout / integrity issues. And extant ships with very powerful shield generators (the Gamma Assault Shuttle, the Executor, etc) are equipped with very large, power-hungry shield generation systems.

In fact, I was considering downgrading the Shields on the Executor to 4D, and this would give me a valid reason to do so...

That sounds quite reasonable to me.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Shields brainstorm, and since this was the most recent Shields topic, I figured I'd give it a bump, along with a few tweaks. This is mostly in line with the existing Shield rules, so it is still somewhat appropriate for the Official Rules section, but there are a few key differences...
    1). Ships may still use their Shields to cover multiple Fire Arcs, but rather than treating Shields as a Dice Pool, the ship's Shield Dice are penalized when trying to cover more than one arc per round:
      Fire Arcs Covered = Shields Skill Difficulty (Dice Penalty)
      One Arc = Easy (-0D)
      Two Arcs = Moderate (-1D)
      Three Arcs = Difficult (-2D)
      Four Arcs = Very Difficult (-3D)

    2). Shields may be activated normally, or may be used as a reaction skill in order to reposition the shields to cover the Fire Arcs that are under attack.

    3). Ships with Auxiliary Power dice available may transfer a maximum of 1D to Shields, even if the ship has more than 1D of Auxiliary Power available.

    4). In addition, Shield operators may "angle" the shields in order to provide a better defense against incoming attacks, but this can backfire, as a mistake can actually create exploitable openings in the shield coverage. In game terms, using the Base Difficulty (see #1) as a benchmark, the Shield's dice result is increased or decreased by 1 point for every 3 points by which the Shield Operator beat or missed the Difficulty number. In order to receive the Angling Bonus, the Shield Operator must re-roll Shields as a reaction to declared attacks every round.

    4). Shields may be treated normally, with the dice simply stacking with the ship's Hull dice in the appropriate Fire Arc, or as an alternative, Shields may be treated as Cover providing Protection only (not Concealment), which must be overcome separately in order to modify the damage roll (see the Cover and Protection rules in the rulebook).

So, as an example...
    let's assume a YT-1300 has 1D Shields, and the Shield Operator has Starship Shields 6D. In the opening round of an attack, four TIE fighters approach from the Rear Fire Arc and open fire. The Shield Operator declares that he is angling the Shields to defend the Rear Arc, and rolls 6D against Easy Difficulty and gets an 18 (beats the TD by 8 points). Because he successfully angled the Shields, the ship adds 1D+2 to any Hull rolls used to counter hits in the Rear Arc (1D for the Shields, and +2 for beating the Base Difficulty by at least 6 points).

    In the next round, the TIE Fighters have split into two wing-pairs, and are attacking from opposite sides. The Shield Operator declares he is going to split the Shields to cover the Left and Right Fire Arcs, rolling 6D against Moderate Difficulty. He gets lucky with his roll and gets a 19, for a +1 Angling Bonus (beat TD of 15 by 3 or more points), but because he was splitting the shields between two arcs, the Shields are penalized by -1D, so the ship only receives +1 of protection to the Left and Right Arcs.

    In the third round, the TIE Fighters are continuing attacking in pairs from opposite sides, and the YT's pilot has diverted 1D of Auxiliary Power to the ship's shields, giving the Shield Operator 2D of Shields to work with as a base. He declares he is going to split the Shields to cover the Left and Right Fire Arcs again, and rolls his 6D Shields skill against Moderate Difficulty. Unfortunately, he hits a Wild 1 and comes up with an 8, 7 points less than the TD. As such, the Shields provide only 1D-2 of protection in each arc (-2 for every 3 points by which the Shield Operator missed the Target Difficulty).

This is structured so that it's very similar to the RAW, with a few subtle changes to make things a bit more exciting for the Shield Operator, with the added possibility of making things a touch more complicated by treating Shields as Cover, and not just part of the Hull.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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