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Shields
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a side note, what got me thinking of the above idea was a small side plot from Hull 721 part 2. The author suggested that the shields on the Executor had been deliberately optimized for use in single-ship gunnery duels, but that a design oversight had led to the ship being vulnerable in a running fleet brawl, due to the shield systems being poorly designed for allocating shield energy to multiple projectors. This, in turn, got me thinking about ways in which this could be expressed in D6 game rules. The most obvious way is to give ships a “Fire Control” rating, expressing how flexible and reactive the ship’s shield system is in general. A ship as described above might have a high Shield Strength rating, but a Shield Control value of 0D or 1D, which would make it much less capable of reacting to the sorts of shifting, multi-directional threats found in a more drawn out battle.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of the Point Defense System from Macross/Robotech, where the shield crew operators were using roller controllers (like my awesome old ColecoVision) to maneuver circular shields to block incoming weapon fire.

I'm guessing for your case the shield operator would be manipulating fire arcs to block weapon fire, or should it be more focused as in my example above?

I do like the idea of a shield operator manipulating shields as for example a gunner stacks fire control to operate a weapon, especially for freighters and capital ships which could have a dedicated shield operator.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12654
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanDarkstar wrote:
This reminds me of the Point Defense System from Macross/Robotech, where the shield crew operators were using roller controllers (like my awesome old ColecoVision) to maneuver circular shields to block incoming weapon fire.

I'm guessing for your case the shield operator would be manipulating fire arcs to block weapon fire, or should it be more focused as in my example above?

I remember that one, but that’s way more focused than I’m picturing it. The version being discussed here is more like fine-tuning the settings and “angling” of a shield covering a full fire arc in order to provide improved protection, not depending on physical reaction times to block incoming shots. While Jedi could certainly pull off that trick (and the idea of a Point Defense Shield on a Jedi-crewed ship is an interesting one), there aren’t nearly enough Jedi around to make this a practicable system for mass production.

Quote:
I do like the idea of a shield operator manipulating shields as for example a gunner stacks fire control to operate a weapon, especially for freighters and capital ships which could have a dedicated shield operator.

Exactly. Not a huge modifier, to be sure - maybe a maximum of 3D on a really good ship, like an MC80 - but enough to allow shield operators to provide better all-around coverage on some ships than others. This would also carry over into the shield operator bonus, in that some shield control systems would be more “agile” when it comes to angling the shields.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine came up with a very simple solution, it makes shields much better though, but this can be adapted to fit.


What he used was the shiled dice of the vessel as a passive shiled in all arches, being passive this is the default shields needed to be pierced before vessel suffer hull damage.

He then uses a simple 4 part "cake slice" meaning 90 degree arches, where he can use shileds skill to Boost any of the 4 archs, no matter success he can only boost the arch at a total of the vessel dice, however all other arcs still have the default value.

Vessel shiled Dice 2D+2

All arches 2D+2

Boost any ONE arch with 2D+2

Total in ONE (active) arch 2D+2 +2D+2 = 4D+4

he uses basic shiled skill as an attack I think, that I am not sure of, but yes he can use ithe boost as a reflex action though at a higher penalty....
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Potroclo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a similar system, shields are base code in all arcs (except I use 6 arcs, for three dimensional combat) and boosting them adds to it, although I limit it to +1D per boost up to +2D per arc. Base code for shields also acts as a reserve that's depleted every time the shields block damage and recharges when not.
I tweaked the damage system too to keep balance.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possible wrinkle, which also applies an existing component of the RAW to Shields:

Stabilize
The Shield Operator redirects all shield energy to a single arc, then locks specific settings and segmenting field overlaps into place to bolster the deflector shield. This takes 1 additional round to perform, but adds +1D to the Shield Dice (Preparation rule). However, disengaging from Stabilized mode also requires one round, during which the shields can not be repositioned or angled. As such, this mode is generally used only in situations where the shielded ship expects to come under sustained attack from a single fire arc, such as extened pursuits or when a fighter or transport is operating in an area that provides natural cover to the other arcs.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the mechanics of how shields work it was my "understanding" that :

Ray (particle) shielding arranged air particles into lines creating a solid object out of whatever was available.

Ray shielding could be penetrated along with your hull but would ultimately just reform on the outside of your ship to cover all of the holes. Which is why you do not see them dealing with decompression ALL of the time.

Ray shielding was part of the hull code for simplicity and was considered "up" so long as your ship had power.

Deflector shielding was strong magnetic fields that dispersed energy at random or hard angles making it hard for blasters and lasers to penetrate but not solid objects. Making deflector shield something projected in front of your hull. It also made communication on that arc very hard if not impossible as the incoming transmission would easily be scattered unless its intensity was that of a laser or blaster cannon which would in essence damage the ship that received such a transmission.

I think this was from reading the novels in the 90's I believe it is all covered in the first 100 pages or so of Heir to the Empire. I think it would depend on your personal opinion of what you consider cannon or "truth" as to how it works. I guess it would have to ... depend on .... your "perspective" Razz
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting concepts there, but it doesn't really line up with the way ray vs. particle shields are presented in the game. In fact, I don't recall the WEG rules ever specifically using the word "deflectors" when describing how shields operate.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, there is also a lot of contradicting information out there even in the original novels. I got it from the books in the late 80's to late 90's. The guys who wrote the WEG books wrote quite a few novels as well so it is at best an extrapolated understanding.

I am re-reading all of my "real" Star Wars novels just before my son reads them now for the first time so I will get a refresher on all of my remembered knowledge in the coming weeks and months.

In my opinion the novels are a better source of information than the movies because lucas is a narcissist and spent a lot of time just making things look cool, then changing everything to fit his most recent beliefs, while the writers tried to make it make sense. But what you consider fact is up to you.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, and that's a big part of what we do in this group. However, in the Official Rules section (despite the fact that any discussions here invariably veer off the rails into personal opinion / house rule territory), it is possible to state exactly what the official rules actually say.

Welcome to the Pit, BTW.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Some interesting concepts there, but it doesn't really line up with the way ray vs. particle shields are presented in the game. In fact, I don't recall the WEG rules ever specifically using the word "deflectors" when describing how shields operate.


Guide to the Star Wars Universe 1994 : Bill Slavicsek page 396
"Shield generators produce power needed to create and maintain deflector shields, then focus those shields around a given object be it a ship, building, or even parts of a planet. (source return of the jedi)"

Not exactly "THE" rule book but that guy wrote the rule book and owned the company.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not WEG SW-RPG published source? = Not Official Rules. That's the rules.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the forward Bill admits to writing this for the people he worked with at WEG while playing Star Wars the roleplaying game but it appears it is not published under WEG officially so by your definition it is not official. Although in the epilogue it says it is an official sourcebook for the roleplaying game. I guess your mileage may vary.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ClaytonH wrote:
In the forward Bill admits to writing this for the people he worked with at WEG while playing Star Wars the roleplaying game but it appears it is not published under WEG officially so by your definition it is not official. Although in the epilogue it says it is an official sourcebook for the roleplaying game. I guess your mileage may vary.

First I've heard of this, but the official rules for Shields in the core rulebook refer only to Particle and Ray Shields.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has definitely peaked my interest. I can delve more if you are interested. It is written as a dictionary and is a pretty good read and source for information that might have slipped your mind in the last 30 years or so Smile

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe

Is what the googlemachine popped out.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

That is the one I own admittedly worse for wear. And not 2 weeks ago my kids took some surgical scissors to the back cover and last 8 to 10 pages. I am wondering what the 3rd edition might have different. It appears to be a whole 4 bucks so I might buy just to keep on top of a bookcase out of kid reach. The timeline and canon ends here for me. I do not wish to debate the canon and timeline but the basic "rules" of physics and equipment should be rather universal.

It appears that the entire book is transposed on the wookieepedia word for word so no need to buy it (or me to delve.) It does not include the preface, epilogue, or any text from the margins (which is mainly acknowledgments and sources.) I will be buying another copy of 2nd I think for posterity. I just cannot read text off of computer screens or kindles without developing acute narcolepsy so I require hard copies. Smile
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