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Question about controls ionized in space combat
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kreldin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

Controls ionized means the ship loses -1D from maneuverability, shields and weapon fire control and damage for the rest of that round and the next round. If the ship has as many controls ionized as maneuverability dice, its controls are frozen for two rounds.

But does the controls frozen take into account -1D from maneuverability from controls being ionized? For instance, a ship has 3D maneuverability. It gets a control ionized from being hit, meaning its manevuerability is now 2D for this and next round. So now if the ship is hit again, either this round or next round, and the ship goes up to 2 controls ionized, will the ship's control be frozen since the maneuverability is technically 2D?

Thanks!
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Tinman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

kreldin wrote:
Controls ionized means the ship loses -1D from maneuverability, shields and weapon fire control and damage for the rest of that round and the next round. If the ship has as many controls ionized as maneuverability dice, its controls are frozen for two rounds.

But does the controls frozen take into account -1D from maneuverability from controls being ionized? For instance, a ship has 3D maneuverability. It gets a control ionized from being hit, meaning its manevuerability is now 2D for this and next round. So now if the ship is hit again, either this round or next round, and the ship goes up to 2 controls ionized, will the ship's control be frozen since the maneuverability is technically 2D?

Thanks!


What the rules are basically saying, though in a slightly confusing way, is that if a ship's maneuverability is reduced to zero due to ionization damage, it means the controls are frozen. In your example, the answer to your question is yes, the ship has been reduced to 0D Maneuverability by ion damage and the controls are frozen for two rounds due to that.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Just like a PC hit for as many stun results as his D in str is ko'ed.
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kreldin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

Tinman wrote:

What the rules are basically saying, though in a slightly confusing way, is that if a ship's maneuverability is reduced to zero due to ionization damage, it means the controls are frozen. In your example, the answer to your question is yes, the ship has been reduced to 0D Maneuverability by ion damage and the controls are frozen for two rounds due to that.


Thanks! I guess seeing it that way makes more sense to me. But as a follow-up, the -1D to Maneuverability from a controls ionized only lasts for the rest of that round and the next one. So two rounds later the -1D will wear off, but the ship will still technically have that controls ionized effect, no? The book doesn't mention anything about the actual # of controls ionized being removed, or are they just taken off along with the -1D modifier?
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ionized results completely vanish after the two rounds.


Some of us have used a houserule where a shift that takes more ionized results than it's Hull Code in a batter starts taking permanent damage, but that is just a houserule.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

kreldin wrote:
Thanks! I guess seeing it that way makes more sense to me. But as a follow-up, the -1D to Maneuverability from a controls ionized only lasts for the rest of that round and the next one. So two rounds later the -1D will wear off, but the ship will still technically have that controls ionized effect, no? The book doesn't mention anything about the actual # of controls ionized being removed, or are they just taken off along with the -1D modifier?


Unless I'm completely missing something (someone please correct me if I am) the ionizing effect those sorts of weapons have on ships lasts for the remainder of the round in which they occur, and the next full round of space combat. The die code penalties are simply the result of the ionizing effect, not an independent effect. This DOES mean it's not particularly easy to fully disable ships with higher Hull codes using a single ion turret, as in that case the effect of a hit can wear off too quickly for enough cumulative ion "damage" to be applied to result in a ship being completely disabled.. unless you have a VERY good gunner operating them.

Experience in privateering quickly taught us that using a second ship with more than one ion turret as a "tackler" was the only really good way to disable a ship via ionization and keep it disabled while boarding took place. Our preferred method was actually timed hyper/ion drive sabotage (set up in the prize's previous port) and ion disabling was mostly used as a means of controlling or salvaging a situation if it started to go sideways.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that ion cannons ignore shields as well, but your right a high hull vs a single ion cannon will take forever to disable a ship. But then again its a single cannon. Even if you were trying to destroy the ship it would still take a bit of time. Here is a link to the rules I have used in my games. It does need additional tweaking, but it works, makes sense and does not add over complicated mechanics to the game.
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Tinman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Keep in mind that ion cannons ignore shields as well, but your right a high hull vs a single ion cannon will take forever to disable a ship. But then again its a single cannon. Even if you were trying to destroy the ship it would still take a bit of time. Here is a link to the rules I have used in my games. It does need additional tweaking, but it works, makes sense and does not add over complicated mechanics to the game.


It's also worth noting that an ion disabled ship doesn't suddenly stop dead in space either. It's going to keep heading along its original trajectory for those two rounds.

If you're intending to board, this can make things rather tricky (not to mention exciting) at times. The ideal situation is that your (hopefully good) pilot will be able to match the course of the other ship, your tractor beam operator will be able to coordinate with him or her to get them into a boarding position, and you manage a soft dock and grapple with the other craft before they're in a position to become uncooperative about it. If there are obstacles involved things get much more interesting. At that point it's up to the boarding crew, whose first target should be either the bridge or engine room to make the situation more stable (once you're docked and grappled, continuing to fire ionizing shots at the other ship obviously isn't an option anymore.) Called shot rules for targeting engines (Pirates and Privateers) are helpful if you're not intending to steal the ship or unless you don't want to leave them adrift for whatever reason.

All in all, timed sabotage is MUCH less hassle.. but sometimes it's not a viable option either. One of our favorite tactics was to slip a powerful euphoric sedative into the prize's protein stores during restocking, and introduce a timed cutout circuit into the ship's drive systems (we had a guy who was VERY good at impersonating dock techs.) They were the happiest crew in space when we met up with them later.. the two wookiee prisoners we liberated from that same ship were also very entertaining until it wore off. "What do you do with a drunken wookiee..?" Smile
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the ship shuts down from all controls ionized though, does not gravity/lights etc also go?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

Tinman wrote:


Unless I'm completely missing something (someone please correct me if I am) the ionizing effect those sorts of weapons have on ships lasts for the remainder of the round in which they occur, and the next full round of space combat. The die code penalties are simply the result of the ionizing effect, not an independent effect. This DOES mean it's not particularly easy to fully disable ships with higher Hull codes using a single ion turret, as in that case the effect of a hit can wear off too quickly for enough cumulative ion "damage" to be applied to result in a ship being completely disabled.. unless you have a VERY good gunner operating them.


Yes, you are missing something. Specifically that ion guns tend to have good fire control die codes and range stats. So even a fair gunner has a good change of getting multiple hits.

While it is possible for target to recover too quickly to get cumulative results, it is also possible for a ship to get "perpetually ionized". Once maneuverability zeros out, the target is virtually helpless.

In our group we discovered that Y-Wings were very nasty in dogfights due to the ion guns. Even when a ship isn't disables, the ionization penalties tended to causes big problems for fighters. An ion peanlty or two can often throw off a pilots shots, mess up his dodge, or even cause him to loose control of his fighter.

And that heavy ion gun (4D fire control, 4D damage) is brutal in the hands of a good gunner. We got one installed on a freighter with upgraded damage (5D), manned by a 6D gunner and it's a TIE pilot's worst nightmare.
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Tinman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
If the ship shuts down from all controls ionized though, does not gravity/lights etc also go?


I haven't seen anything to suggest one way or the other whether such systems are affected. My personal interpretation of this is that things like emergency lighting, power to gravity disks and life support feed off the ship's power plant on hardened/protected circuits, but if the amount of ionized results starts exceeding the ship's hull code substantially it's eventually going to start frying circuits most techs consider unfryable.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinman wrote:
It's also worth noting that an ion disabled ship doesn't suddenly stop dead in space either. It's going to keep heading along its original trajectory for those two rounds.


Completely agree.

Tinman wrote:
(once you're docked and grappled, continuing to fire ionizing shots at the other ship obviously isn't an option anymore.)


Why not? Because the ships are connected (and the ion charges might also affect the attacking ship)?

Tinman wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If the ship shuts down from all controls ionized though, does not gravity/lights etc also go?


I haven't seen anything to suggest one way or the other whether such systems are affected. My personal interpretation of this is that things like emergency lighting, power to gravity disks and life support feed off the ship's power plant on hardened/protected circuits, but if the amount of ionized results starts exceeding the ship's hull code substantially it's eventually going to start frying circuits most techs consider unfryable.


This is how I see it as well.
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Last edited by DougRed4 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tinman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Yes, you are missing something. Specifically that ion guns tend to have good fire control die codes and range stats. So even a fair gunner has a good change of getting multiple hits.

While it is possible for target to recover too quickly to get cumulative results, it is also possible for a ship to get "perpetually ionized". Once maneuverability zeros out, the target is virtually helpless.

In our group we discovered that Y-Wings were very nasty in dogfights due to the ion guns. Even when a ship isn't disables, the ionization penalties tended to causes big problems for fighters. An ion peanlty or two can often throw off a pilots shots, mess up his dodge, or even cause him to loose control of his fighter.

And that heavy ion gun (4D fire control, 4D damage) is brutal in the hands of a good gunner. We got one installed on a freighter with upgraded damage (5D), manned by a 6D gunner and it's a TIE pilot's worst nightmare.


Your information is accurate, but I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting I've missed in answering the above question. Are you arguing that ships with larger hull codes don't take more than minimal ion armament to stand a good chance of disabling via ionization? I'm confused.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinman wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If the ship shuts down from all controls ionized though, does not gravity/lights etc also go?


I haven't seen anything to suggest one way or the other whether such systems are affected. My personal interpretation of this is that things like emergency lighting, power to gravity disks and life support feed off the ship's power plant on hardened/protected circuits, but if the amount of ionized results starts exceeding the ship's hull code substantially it's eventually going to start frying circuits most techs consider unfryable.


Makes sense to me. It's also possible that some systems have mechanical or battery backups., or even high tech ones that are inactive.In the real world, EMP can fry working electronics (like the computers that control the engines in modern cars ), but won't affect those that are too low tech,(ike a simple all mechanical engine from the 1960s).
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about controls ionized in space combat Reply with quote

Tinman wrote:


Your information is accurate, but I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting I've missed in answering the above question. Are you arguing that ships with larger hull codes don't take more than minimal ion armament to stand a good chance of disabling via ionization? I'm confused.


To some extent yes. In part because with multiple shots the likelihood of beating the hull code goes up.

Maneuverability Code is probably more important than Hull Code as far as ion weapons go. Since most ships with high Hull Codes tend to have low Maneuverability Codes, one lucky shot can end up completely disabling a ship for a couple of rounds.

And that means the ionized ship can't dodge, so a single gunner can just hose the ship down with ion fire and let the laws of probability work for him.


That can be catastrophic for groups that fly around in light freighters - like most PCs. One lucky ion shot and the PCs ship is helpless for at least two rounds.


Our group has been considering ditching the completely ionized rule and just stacking up the dice penalties to give those in ionized ships an chance to do something.
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