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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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 Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Power Routing (for freighters) |
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Power Routing for Space Transports
| Quote: | ...If a system suffers a second Power Surge in the same scene, the system is immediately Overloaded (Lightly Damaged) which cancels a successful transfer to that system. Overloaded systems are subsequently limited to receiving a maximum of 1D (or +2 Space) in transferred power until repaired, and they suffer an additional effect from the chart below based on which system was overloaded.
Overload Damage Effects For Each System
Shields -1D (If the ship's shield code has already been reduced to 0D, the ship suffers a controls ionized result - See R&E p.128)
Weapon emplacement rendered inoperative
Sublight engines suffer a Lost Move speed level (See R&E p.129)
Maneuverability -1D (If the ship has no dice remaining in Maneuverability, it suffers a Lost Move speed level - See R&E p.129) At GM discretion, a system receiving over 1D in transferred power for too long may suffer an Overload. |
Before today, I last posted in this thread last December, which was before I had finished my Damage website which includes tweaked and expanded starship damage where I separated shields blown from controls ionized (I adopted something similar to CRM's shields being drained before controls being ionized).
But now that I think about it, the shields had to have had power in them to experience a second power surge and overload, so there isn't ever going to be a situation where overloaded shields were already at 0D when the overload occurs. I can just remove that if-then controls ionized completely.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | Interesting concept. I like that it only gives a temporary +1 bonus to your weapon's damage for each hit it absorbs.
But the premise of the auxiliary generator is that it is standard on all ships. I do not see anything like this specialized shields/weapon system as standard. Drawing power from enemy firepower absorbed by the shields and channeling it into the ship's own weapons for a boost in weapon damage seems to me like a rare and specialized add-on, not a standard ability that all ships have. It is statted out that way, with a built-in steep trade-off that after absorbing only three hits, the shields overload and shut down for 10 rounds. |
I wasn't thinking of it being standard for all ships, but rather a system upgrade option, something like my Stealth Shields. And while this was statted out in the absence of our house rules for aux power, the parallels and similarities are pretty clear.
I'm picturing this as an extension of my earlier statement that, while no ship system can take more than 1D of power, some larger ships may have more than 1D in their "auxiliary power pool", and can thus divert 1D of power to multiple systems at once. This system would take hits on the shield and, instead of sending the absorbed energy straight to the guns, divert it into a capacitor linked to the auxiliary network, where the extra pips of power can be used by any system (including back into the shields).
Frankly, the existing system on the Pathfinder sounds like an experimental gimmick that never should have made it into standard production in the first place. What I'm picturing is a system where the manufacturer took the time to iron out the kinks and install appropriate safety cut-out systems, like having the capacitor designed with a safety cut-out that shuts it down in case it absorbs too much power.
I haven't really hammered out the details yet, but it's at least worth considering.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | What I'm picturing is a system where the manufacturer took the time to iron out the kinks and install appropriate safety cut-out systems, like having the capacitor designed with a safety cut-out that shuts it down in case it absorbs too much power.
I haven't really hammered out the details yet, but it's at least worth considering. |
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up for this optional add-on with your aux power rules.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Whill, a related thought based on what I posted here...
An additional dimension for power transfer could potentially be Power Control Dice, where the ship's power transfer control unit provides a "Fire Control" bonus when transferring power. Might be a fun piece of tech for ships to get ahold of something that allows their ship to transfer power more quickly and easily, or to be more capable of making complicated transfer settings. Of course, the high-end version of this are most likely military, with R or F Availability...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Whill, a related thought based on what I posted here...
An additional dimension for power transfer could potentially be Power Control Dice, where the ship's power transfer control unit provides a "Fire Control" bonus when transferring power. Might be a fun piece of tech for ships to get ahold of something that allows their ship to transfer power more quickly and easily, or to be more capable of making complicated transfer settings. Of course, the high-end version of this are most likely military, with R or F Availability... |
I think I understand. You are thinking of an add-on device that can be installed into a ship, and when it does it provides bonus dice to the power control rolls to transfer power, like fire control dice are for starship gunnery rolls. Do I have that right?
I can see something like that existing. But I would think that would probably military only and not something designed to be installed into freighters. So I would probably make that an X, and not be entirely stable in freighters, so that it fails with a 1 on the wild die and might even damage the aux power generator.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | You are thinking of an add-on device that can be installed into a ship, and when it does it provides bonus dice to the power control rolls to transfer power, like fire control dice are for starship gunnery rolls. Do I have that right? |
Correct. This is less the power transfer itself than it is the central control unit that performs the power transfer, and some of them will be more capable than others.
| Quote: | | I can see something like that existing. But I would think that would probably military only and not something designed to be installed into freighters. So I would probably make that an X, and not be entirely stable in freighters, so that it fails with a 1 on the wild die and might even damage the aux power generator. |
My take was more that most commercial ships would have a Control rating in the 0D-1D range, and military craft would have superior versions in the 1D-3D range, with high-end experimental versions at ~4D (with Availability of X).
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, you are saying that it is something that does the transfer itself and the power control dice is the skill roll? Wouldn't that mean it was run on AI and AI is choosing where to transfer the power? I can see a lot of freighter captains not wanting to to trust a program to determine where the power is routed. And I wouldn't like that because it being automated defeats the purpose of power routing giving another character something to do in space.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Oh, you are saying that it is something that does the transfer itself and the power control dice is the skill roll? Wouldn't that mean it was run on AI and AI is choosing where to transfer the power? I can see a lot of freighter captains not wanting to to trust a program to determine where the power is routed. And I wouldn't like that because it being automated defeats the purpose of power routing giving another character something to do in space. |
No, I'm saying that, in the same way that Fire Control stacks with the gunner's Gunnery skill (thus representing the sophistication and capability of the gun's Fire Control system), this would similarly stack with the Pilot / Engineer's Operation skill to perform Power Transfer functions. So, when rolling against the Difficulty on this chart from your rule, the ship's Power Control dice would stack with the Operations skill to get higher rolls when transferring power, and the power transfer would happen more quickly due to greater degree of success.
For example, using your rules, a character with 5D in their Operations skill trying to roll a Single Source -> Single Recipient transfer has to beat Moderate (15) Difficulty. He rolls bad and gets an 11; power doesn't transfer. Next round, he tries again, and gets a 16: Success, but just barely, so the power transfer doesn't occur for 2 rounds.
However, using the same example, but on a ship that has 2D Power Control dice to stack with his Operation skill. This time, rolling 7D instead of just 5D, he gets a 22, and succeeds by 7 points. Not only does the power transfer succeed, but it only takes one round to take effect, not the normal two.
So, to sum up, the idea is the Power Control dice refer to the ability of the ship's systems to manage and coordinate the power transfer in the way the character operating the systems wants them to. It's a representation of capability and user-friendliness.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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OK. That was my initial understanding.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | You are thinking of an add-on device that can be installed into a ship, and when it does it provides bonus dice to the power control rolls to transfer power, like fire control dice are for starship gunnery rolls. Do I have that right? |
Correct. This is less the power transfer itself than it is the central control unit that performs the power transfer, and some of them will be more capable than others. |
This is what made me doubt that understanding, but I get what you are saying now.
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Dr. Bidlo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I am coming late to this party, but this is another example of rules I have been developing that closely resemble the work if the collective minds in the Pit. I suppose it is not a major surprise, as I too was inspired by the movies and developed auxiliary power as well, and even created a new skill called Power Control under Tech (I bounced back and forth between Mech and Tech).
The one thing I would like to add to the discussion is the concern about limits. I drew inspiration from Tramp Freighters fir my rule, which goes as folliws:
You may use auxiliary power to restore lost capacity (dice) to a damaged system, adding the auxiliary power up to the system's original value. I was only translating 1D as 1 Space, but I see the precedent for 1D to equal 2 Space based on discussions elsewhere and the 1E to 2E move conversion table.
When auxiliary power is used to boost a system, rather than imposing a 1D maximum, I used the Tramp Freighters mod rules as a guide, with an absolute nax of +1D+2; HOWEVER, I also used the mishap modifiers as well for any increase above the normal operational parameters.
I love the option for mishaps as a GM... my Carrack Captain was trying to reach a freighter being attacked by pirates by pushing his cruiser beyond it's capabilities, and he ended up blowing out his sublight and main hyperdrive completely! It ended up being a major plot line comication to get the drives replaced and he was without his ship for a few game sessions. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | I am coming late to this party, but this is another example of rules I have been developing that closely resemble the work if the collective minds in the Pit. I suppose it is not a major surprise, as I too was inspired by the movies and developed auxiliary power as well, and even created a new skill called Power Control under Tech (I bounced back and forth between Mech and Tech).
The one thing I would like to add to the discussion is the concern about limits. I drew inspiration from Tramp Freighters fir my rule, which goes as folliws:
You may use auxiliary power to restore lost capacity (dice) to a damaged system, adding the auxiliary power up to the system's original value. I was only translating 1D as 1 Space, but I see the precedent for 1D to equal 2 Space based on discussions elsewhere and the 1E to 2E move conversion table.
When auxiliary power is used to boost a system, rather than imposing a 1D maximum, I used the Tramp Freighters mod rules as a guide, with an absolute nax of +1D+2; HOWEVER, I also used the mishap modifiers as well for any increase above the normal operational parameters.
I love the option for mishaps as a GM... my Carrack Captain was trying to reach a freighter being attacked by pirates by pushing his cruiser beyond it's capabilities, and he ended up blowing out his sublight and main hyperdrive completely! It ended up being a major plot line comication to get the drives replaced and he was without his ship for a few game sessions. |
How did you determine how much "aux power" each ship type has? can they increase that, by adding in more generators?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | and even created a new skill called Power Control under Tech (I bounced back and forth between Mech and Tech). |
Sounds a bit too specific to be made into a specific skill. I mean,. if a PC wanted to specialize in it under Piloting or the appropriate Repair skill. Something we discussed elsewhere was renaming skills to better encompass all the various things they can do, and replacing Piloting with Operations is a better fit for a lot of things, particularly when you get into larger, multi-crew ships.
| Quote: | | You may use auxiliary power to restore lost capacity (dice) to a damaged system, adding the auxiliary power up to the system's original value. I was only translating 1D as 1 Space, but I see the precedent for 1D to equal 2 Space based on discussions elsewhere and the 1E to 2E move conversion table. |
And a max of 1D+2 would result in a ship bumping its Space by 3, which can really throw things off at the lower end. A stock YT-1300 suddenly having a Space of 7 gets a little wonky. I don't recall the specifics, but I do recall that it threw the game off less to have Auxiliary Power to engines be essential to being able to go All-Out. Also worth noting that putting Aux Power to Maneuverability allows the ship to travel faster, too, since it adds 1D to the ship's ability to make Maneuvers at higher Move Levels.
| Quote: | | When auxiliary power is used to boost a system, rather than imposing a 1D maximum, I used the Tramp Freighters mod rules as a guide, with an absolute max of +1D+2; HOWEVER, I also used the mishap modifiers as well for any increase above the normal operational parameters. |
Interesting. I can't speak for everyone, but I use the X2=+1D measuring stick for my stats and house rules. A 1D+2 bonus equates to about a 150-160% increase in power. Earlier on, we did discuss allowing ships to have excess available power (as in, having 2D or 3D of Auxiliary), but that trying to shunt more than 1D at a time into a single system had the potential to cause a blowout. As such, ships were equipped with safety cut-outs that prevented more than 1D of power from being applied to any one system. Some ships, however, had the option of "Locking In" Auxiliary Power, overriding the safety cut-outs and putting more than 1D of Aux Power, which in turn risked a blow-out based on how many dice you went above 1D.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How did you determine how much "aux power" each ship type has? can they increase that, by adding in more generators? |
That generally parallels my line of thought. A ship can get a reactor upgrade which provides more than the default 1D of Auxiliary Power (ships like the Falcon likely have this option), but can't use more than 1D into one system at any one time without risking a blow-out of some kind.
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Dr. Bidlo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You may use auxiliary power to restore lost capacity (dice) to a damaged system, adding the auxiliary power up to the system's original value. I was only translating 1D as 1 Space, but I see the precedent for 1D to equal 2 Space based on discussions elsewhere and the 1E to 2E move conversion table. |
In theory perhaps it sounds like too much, but the increase in the mishap roll (taken from Tramp Freighters), makes going all the way up to the 1D+2 max pretty risky and unappealing. An extra +2 would hardly be a game changer, but again, it is insanely risky to even try.
I have yet to have a player go beyond the +1D and sometimes even that can go awry. |
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