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Reworked Dark Side Rules: Pips and Dice
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reworked Dark Side Rules: Pips and Dice Reply with quote

Moved over from me hijacking CRM's thread:

Dark Side Pips and Dark Side Dice.

So, Force Points are gained by Heroic actions. Real Force Points cannot be gained any other way. This includes the option of getting a Force Point for heroic actions, even if you didn't spend any Force Points in the action (qv "Doing the Right Thing" on p. 85).

As you start to fall to the Dark Side, you accumulate Dark Side Pips (DSp), which themselves accumulate into Dark Side Dice (DSD). Dark Side Pips and Dice are added to all Force skills, unless suppressed by conscious will (per the rules of "Lure of the Dark Side" on p. 141). More extreme acts of evil might result in multiple pips... killing someone in anger (rather than defense) might get you one pip... blowing up Alderaan is probably worth at least 1D. I wouldn't go too much higher than 1D per evil action... that aligns with the RAW. DSDs max out at 4D.

There are no "Dark Side Points". Sometimes, the Dark Side will offer you a "free" Force Point, or you can Call Upon the Dark Side to gain a Force Point. This is the usual rules in R&E; must be used immediately, etc. Taking a FP from the Dark Side increases your DSD by 1D.

Now, reducing your DSp is pretty simple... spend a Force Point to reduce your DSp by 1. You might require this to spend some time in meditation or good works (things which reinforce the Light), which is part of why the Jedi have a model of service... even if you accumulate a few DSp here and there, you have plenty of opportunity to remove it. You might also allow a mass buy-off at a dramatically appropriate moment (for example, if you throw the Emperor down a reactor shaft to save your son and help win the Battle of Endor for the Rebel Alliance).

For existing templates, I would turn any Dark Side points into 1D Dark Side. Note that, in this system, no one really "Falls to the Dark Side" irrevocably... they just get deep in the Dark Side and can't get out. Even if they pick up Force Points and spend them to reduce their DSD, if they keep doing evil, their DSD will climb back up. Non-force sensitives don't really need to worry about "falling to the Dark Side"... they have 4D to use on Force skills, but they can't do any Force skills, so being extremely Dark Side can be sensed, but it doesn't mean anything for them.

If you take an example like Anakin Skywalker, he has a TON of Force points, because he spent the Clone Wars doing heroic things at Dramatically Appropriate Moments (partially because Anakin Skywalker is a drama queen and extra af). He might have even picked up a few FP during the Empire years by unexpected heroics. However, his corruption by Palpatine and his years with the Empire put him high in the DSDs. With all those DSDs, he didn't really NEED to spend Force Points; with 4D added to all Force actions, he's incredibly powerful. Plus, the Dark Side sometimes gives him free Force Points when it serves its purposes... long-range Force Chokes take some big rolls. When he reaches a dramatically appropriate moment to be a hero, he can spend all those FP to reduce his DSp. He might not have enough to completely eliminate all 12 DSp at once (I think it's safe to say he was at 4D, and 4D = 12 pips), but he brings himself significantly back to the Light, enough that he's able to become One with the Force.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting option.

'Dark Side Pips' was brought up in an Official Rules thread back in 2017, but it should have been its own House Rule thread like this. Thanks.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=172961#172961
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel we should clarify exactly what Force Points are/aren't for the sake of the rules. Are they intended to be the Light Side counterpart to Dark Side Points, or are they an indicator of the "favor" of the Force in general? I can see how the concept of a character burning all their FP at once to "zero the balance" on their DSPs would fit with the end of Return of the Jedi, but I'd suggest making it only happen during appropriately heroic circumstances. Otherwise, I think taking the time to atone is crucial, and appropriately realistic, as well.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I feel we should clarify exactly what Force Points are/aren't for the sake of the rules. Are they intended to be the Light Side counterpart to Dark Side Points, or are they an indicator of the "favor" of the Force in general?

As designed in the official rules, FPs and DSPs are not light/dark counterparts of each other. FPs are in general and can be used for light or dark. Making them counterparts would be the realm of house rules.

CRMcNeill wrote:
I can see how the concept of a character burning all their FP at once to "zero the balance" on their DSPs would fit with the end of Return of the Jedi, but I'd suggest making it only happen during appropriately heroic circumstances.

I concur.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I feel we should clarify exactly what Force Points are/aren't for the sake of the rules. Are they intended to be the Light Side counterpart to Dark Side Points, or are they an indicator of the "favor" of the Force in general? I can see how the concept of a character burning all their FP at once to "zero the balance" on their DSPs would fit with the end of Return of the Jedi, but I'd suggest making it only happen during appropriately heroic circumstances. Otherwise, I think taking the time to atone is crucial, and appropriately realistic, as well.


RAW, Force Points are drawing upon the Force, consciously or unconsciously, light or dark, to do something. DSPs accumulate, but they are not Force Points, just an indicator of level of corruption. Those who have fallen to the Dark Side get Force Points for being villains.

In my conception, Force Points only accumulate naturally from things the Force approves of... i.e. acting heroically. "Dark Side Force Points" are only granted by the Dark Side if you specifically ask for them, or if you're being courted for corruption. DSFP must be used immediately... they don't accumulate.

I haven't worked out timing and everything, but, outside of dramatically appropriate moments, I'd go with "Weeks of service equal to the number of dice (minimum 1) to spend 1 Force point to get rid of 1 DSp". I'd also probably allow 1 FP to be spent to remove 1 DSp when you get your FP spent heroically back at the end of a session.

So, let's say I'm Fallen Jedi Whoop Daerifarmr. I have an unreasonably large store of Force Points, but I also have 4D in DSD... I've been a bad boy.

If I work hard for 4 weeks, helping people and meditating on the Force, I can spend 1 FP to go down to 3D+2 DSD. 3 weeks after that, I can spend another FP to go down to 3D+1. Going this route, I will be able to completely cleanse in 24 weeks... provided I have 12 FP to pay all of those costs.

Now, if I'm out there being heroic, spending my FP on heroism, I can speed this up a bit... heroism means I can spend a FP on heroism, then immediately use it to clear a DSp when it comes back. I've lost the FP, but I've also gotten rid of a DSp. If I don't have any FP (because I've been a right b@st@rd* for a long time), the free FP I get for heroic actions can also be used immediately to clear a DSp, or it can be saved to use for future heroics.

If I get to be dramatically appropriately heroic, I can burn a ton of FP to eliminate DSps... up to 12, which eliminates all DSp.
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