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TauntaunScout
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 Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Considering what a hash those two made out of Game of Thrones once they ran out of original material to cheat off of, I can't say I'm sad to see them go. As far as Johnson? I despise the man for his part in the current trainwreck, but he did okay with Looper. His "subverting expectations" schtick was utterly wrong for the trilogy, but would probably fit better with something like an anthology, separate from the core story line. |
Which is interesting, cause Martin can't end GoT because there's no ending to history to cheat off of.
Johnson has made the 4th best SW film in the 9 part arc to date, in my opinion. So I trust this film will be better than TRoS. But I can't really say until I see both.
Edit: Also. I guess for me a person's past success and failure is meaningless for predicting Star Wars movies for me, because the same person was behind both my most and least favorite of the 8 movies released thus far. For there is much that is left to time and chance.
Last edited by TauntaunScout on Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| TauntaunScout wrote: | | Johnson has made the 4th best SW film in the 9 part arc to date, so I trust this film will be better than TRoS. |
| Silent Disapproval Robot wrote: | | ... |
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TauntaunScout
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | TauntaunScout wrote: | | Johnson has made the 4th best SW film in the 9 part arc to date, so I trust this film will be better than TRoS. |
| Silent Disapproval Robot wrote: | | ... |
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I'll never understand the fan reaction to TLJ in comparison to TFA. Han seeing those laser beams in the sky, then seeing several planets explode at once, was way worse than "faster" meaning "equal speed". The props and stuff in TFA also looked kinda plasticy and fake, compared to the established "lived in" aesthetic of Star Wars.
I don't much like how TLJ handled Luke but I also don't like how anyone new handled Leia, Han or Chewie (or for that matter, Kylo and Snope in general). So that's a wash, when comparing the two films.
The plot of TLJ was unnecessarily complex. The plot of TFA was derivative. Both films ended in unnecessary cliffhangers, showing the influence of TV writers. Another wash.
They would both get some kind of a "C" if I was grading them, but those laser beams in the sky brought TFA down to an "F". The whole project was inherently a misstep when they decided not to make Luke and/or Leia the main protagonists again, frankly. So maybe I am just splitting hairs. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not saying TFA is better by any stretch of the imagination - the "I can see Hosnian Prime from my house" bit was my breaking point where I truly started to hate that film - but so much was left hanging at the end of that film that it was, IMO, at least the possibility that a coherent trilogy was somewhat salvageable. TLJ took that possibility, shot it in the back of the head and left the corpse in a ditch somewhere. I don't blame Johnson for the entire mess (that's what Kathleen Kennedy is for), but I do blame him for the part of it he contributed to.
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TauntaunScout
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| It's on an upward trajectory from the prequels though, with the use of actual costumes instead of CGI, and better acting. Story-wise it's probably no better or worse but at least it doesn't hurt my eyes to look at the screen. Cohesive storytelling seems to be dying off, in general. TV goes on tangents for no reason just to fill time. Now movies do too. |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | His "subverting expectations" schtick was utterly wrong for the trilogy, but would probably fit better with something like an anthology, separate from the core story line. |
I concur. But I'm trying to keep an open mind that maybe a more original trilogy under Johnson might be better than how he dealt with the legacies of Luke, Leia, and Ackbar. There sure as hell better not be anything like the word "faster" meaning the same speed again. |
Yeah, the whole "subverting expectations" thing in TLJ struck me as entirely as a result/reaction of TFA seeming like a rehash of ANH. They went too far in one direction with TFA and went too far in the other direction with TLJ and wound up overcompensating.
Whill, refresh my memory, please. Where exactly was this "'faster' meaning the same speed" thing? I'm guessing it's from somewhere in TLJ, but I'm drawing a blank. Could you remind me where this is from and what's its significance is? (I'm too busy at the moment to rewatch TLJ, what with work being what it is.)
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm not saying TFA is better by any stretch of the imagination - the "I can see Hosnian Prime from my house" bit was my breaking point where I truly started to hate that film - but so much was left hanging at the end of that film that it was, IMO, at least the possibility that a coherent trilogy was somewhat salvageable. TLJ took that possibility, shot it in the back of the head and left the corpse in a ditch somewhere. I don't blame Johnson for the entire mess (that's what Kathleen Kennedy is for), but I do blame him for the part of it he contributed to. |
Ugh, I'm still pissed at Abrams for that Hosnian Prime Laserz In The Sky crap because he did it before in Star Trek (2009) (with Spock seeing Vulcan being destroyed from another star system just by looking into the sky) and showed us that he still didn't learn from that amateurish mistake. Any sci fi fan with even the barest modicum of how light works would WTF after watching either scene because they'd know that light doesn't have an infinite speed so you can't see across light-years of space in real time. It's for this reason above others that J.J. Abrams' work hasn't impressed me overmuch.
As for CRM's comment that TLJ destroyed any possibility of a coherent sequel trilogy, I want to disagree, but the knowledge that this trilogy was designed like a chain letter between two or three separate directors rather than a single coherent vision upsets me. Yes, they all collaborated with each other, but this trilogy's narrative flow still feels choppy and disjointed. Maybe TRoS will tie it all together in a way that makes sense, but I can understand why people don't feel optimistic about that. When you're 2/3rds of the way through the story and it looks like a jumbled mess, you don't have alot of time or room for error to make the story compelling again. (I was kinda tempted to use a sports metaphor here, but I would have mixed up football and baseball details so I just decided to say what I meant instead.)
I just don't want to walk out of the theater after TRoS feeling as disappointed as I did when I walked out after TFA or as angry as I did when I walked out after TLJ. Time will tell in less than 7 weeks, I guess.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:40 am Post subject: |
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A "chain letter" is exactly what I was thinking of, but the term slipped my mind while writing my earlier post. It's not that it can't work - see the MCU - but it needs a strong hand providing guidance from above for the letter writers to make it work. In short, as I've said before, Star Wars needed a Kevin Feige, but got a Kathleen Kennedy.
For all of her past work in Hollywood, Kennedy seemed more interested in using Star Wars to establish her feminist cred ("The Force is Female") than in producing a quality sequel trilogy, which is a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse. I don't say that as a stab at feminism, but as an empirical observation of Star Wars as it currently stands. Whatever one's feelings on the matter, Kennedy's social views would've been far more acceptable (or at least unobjectionable) to the Star Wars fan base had she delivered a quality product.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:48 pm Post subject: Politics |
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| On Sat Jan 05, 2019, the SITE ADMIN wrote: | | Quote: | | Avoid politics and religion. Please avoid real-world sociopolitical and religious references (including antireligion) except as they directly relate to Star Wars in-universe, and even then, please use caution. As the majority of users here are American, the political avoidance emphasis is on modern USA politics, but we expect everyone to self-moderate political content about their own and other countries. Please: No Obama, Hillary, or Trump. Do not discuss real-world political values inherent in Star Wars. Do not state or refer to any aspect of Star Wars having a political agenda. Do not share links to pages with political content. |
...
1. Do not discuss politics or share any political views on the Rancor Pit. Period.
2. Do not state or allude to Star Wars having a political agenda, with or without stating what that particular agenda is.
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Now that the expectations for this guideline have been this clearly communicated, we can all start fresh. Violating these things can lead to warnings and temporary bans at the discretion of the staff, and permanent bans at my discretion for repeat offenders.
Please self-moderate and just don't go there. Let's please keep the Rancor Pit a politics-free zone! Thank you. |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | For all of her past work in Hollywood, Kennedy seemed more interested in using Star Wars to establish her feminist cred ("The Force is Female") than in producing a quality sequel trilogy |
Stating that the woman in charge of Lucasfilm is using a Star Wars trilogy to establish femist cred is the same exact d@mn thing as stating Star Wars has a political agenda, which is forbidden here.
| Quote: | | , which is a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse. I don't say that as a stab at feminism, but... |
...but stating this clause doesn't make discussing feminism permissible here.
| Quote: | | as an empirical observation of Star Wars as it currently stands. |
The facts and truth of the statements are irrelevant. Discussing it violates the forum guidelines.
This is everyone's recent warning. Do not reply to this post in this thread or any other, do not start another thread about it, and do not PM me to argue about it, or you will get a one week ban, for starters. Please just let it go and follow the forum guidelines. Thank you.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Whill, refresh my memory, please. Where exactly was this "'faster' meaning the same speed" thing? I'm guessing it's from somewhere in TLJ, but I'm drawing a blank. Could you remind me where this is from and what's its significance is? (I'm too busy at the moment to rewatch TLJ, what with work being what it is.) |
At the beginning of the slow chase, one of the FO officers says the Resistance fleet is "faster" as an explanation for why the FO can only stay a constant speed and distance behind them, and only pick them off as they run out of fuel. I could swear that you participated in the discussions of TLJ about this but I don't have time to reread the TLJ threads.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whatever one's feelings on the matter, Kennedy's views would've been far more acceptable (or at least unobjectionable) to the Star Wars fan base had she delivered a quality product. |
Let's not let this thread turn into a bash-fest against Kennedy and the ST (even without politics). Let's please steer this thread back on course, discussing future Star Wars films beyond TRoS.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | Whill, refresh my memory, please. Where exactly was this "'faster' meaning the same speed" thing? I'm guessing it's from somewhere in TLJ, but I'm drawing a blank. Could you remind me where this is from and what's its significance is? (I'm too busy at the moment to rewatch TLJ, what with work being what it is.) |
At the beginning of the slow chase, one of the FO officers says the Resistance fleet is "faster" as an explanation for why the FO can only stay a constant speed and distance behind them, and only pick them off as they run out of fuel. I could swear that you participated in the discussions of TLJ about this but I don't have time to reread the TLJ threads. |
It's entirely possible that I did participate in that conversation and don't remember it. It wouldn't be the first time that I forgot the exact details of something I might have said or posted weeks or months ago.
One wonders if I'm suffering from early senility. 
But now I'll have to rewatch TLJ just to catch that "faster = equal speed" and facepalm at it for myself. 
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | Whill, refresh my memory, please. Where exactly was this "'faster' meaning the same speed" thing? I'm guessing it's from somewhere in TLJ, but I'm drawing a blank. Could you remind me where this is from and what's its significance is? (I'm too busy at the moment to rewatch TLJ, what with work being what it is.) |
At the beginning of the slow chase, one of the FO officers says the Resistance fleet is "faster" as an explanation for why the FO can only stay a constant speed and distance behind them, and only pick them off as they run out of fuel. I could swear that you participated in the discussions of TLJ about this but I don't have time to reread the TLJ threads. |
It's entirely possible that I did participate in that conversation and don't remember it. It wouldn't be the first time that I forgot the exact details of something I might have said or posted weeks or months ago.
One wonders if I'm suffering from early senility.
But now I'll have to rewatch TLJ just to catch that "faster = equal speed" and facepalm at it for myself. |
Ok, I think I just found this scene. Here's what the FO officer actually said:
| Quote: | | They're faster and lighter, sir. They can't lose us, but they can keep us at a range where our cannons are ineffective against their shields. |
There's nothing here about a "constant speed" or an "equal speed." Whill, I think you must have remembered this scene differently.
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | Ok, I think I just found this scene. Here's what the FO officer actually said:
| Quote: | | They're faster and lighter, sir. They can't lose us, but they can keep us at a range where our cannons are ineffective against their shields. |
There's nothing here about a "constant speed" or an "equal speed." Whill, I think you must have remembered this scene differently. |
This conversation is so early 2018. And I am also quite disturbed to read this coming from an editor that improves diction of others!
No, I'm not misremembering it. That's it. The officer said the word "faster". I trust you know what the word "faster" means. In the very next sentence, he says "They can't lose us." Does not compute. If something is indeed "faster" than you then it will eventually "lose" you. "They can't lose us" is a statement describing equal speed. And the next clause in the sentence is "they can keep us at a range" which is yet another statement describing equal speed by referring to an constant distance apart.
But another key thing here is, you don't have to only go by the contradictory dialogue in that one scene. You must also watch the rest of the movie past that scene. You will see that the two fleets are indeed traveling at the same speed. The Resistance fleet is not faster. The FO only destroys Resistance ships as they fall behind due to running out of fuel. If the Resistance fleet was actually faster, they would have "lost" the FO fleet long before they ran out of fuel. The explanation I was referring to was from a real world perspective of the plot. Character dialogue is often used to explains plot points to the viewers. There is no way that officer would be that inept with the human language in-universe. Rian Johnson is using that dialogue to explain something that he could have just used more accurate dialogue for.
And you seem to be directing this at me as if I am the only one who noticed this. There is an entire army of Star Wars fans who noticed this, including many others here. I probably could easily find a YouTube video that talks about this for you, but it would probably include too much bashing language and deal with other issues of the film that I couldn't share it here. Please, go read the TLJ threads. And I'm not really the person you need to defend TLJ to. It is my least favorite SW film, but I do not agree with most of the criticisms the haters bash the film with. I do certainly agree with a good handful of them, including this one, but not most.
This is way off topic so if you wish to discuss this further, please do so in a TLJ thread. Thank you.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: High Republic |
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| Savar wrote: | | What is the high republic era? |
This is from a (presently unsubstantiated) rumor going around that the next Star Wars film will be set in this "era" which is supposedly being defined as about 400 years before TPM. So, during the lifetime of Yoda. If it includes Yoda, Lucasfilm would seem to be going back on their statements about the new Star Wars films being unrelated to existing films. But so far, Disney Star Wars has only really expanded the film continuity successfully with the two prequel films it has made, so hopefully it would be better than the ST. But there is nothing official now.
| Stan Shinn wrote: | From MakingStarWars.net comes this news:
| Quote: | Sources are saying the next Star Wars Saga is going to take place during an era called “The High Republic” era. It sounds like the setting is 400 years before The Skywalker Saga. This new saga is set during a time that the Sith’s “Rule of Two” has been established by Darth Bane, and Yoda is a Jedi, but isn’t the old Jedi we know from the Skywalker era.
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Source: https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/the-next-star-wars-film-saga-to-be-set-during-the-high-republic-era |
Yes. I think Yoda being alive in this era is the most significant thing about this rumored movie setting. Other than that, it seems that if this rumor is true, they might be intentionally trying to have a relatively new setting with little continuity baggage and thus a low amount of fan expectations. But that is only pure speculation about an unsubstantiated rumor at this point.
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TauntaunScout
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: High Republic |
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| Whill wrote: | | Other than that, it seems that if this rumor is true, they might be intentionally trying to have a relatively new setting with little continuity baggage and thus a low amount of fan expectations. |
If it conflicts with West End Games, it's wrong!  |
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:05 am Post subject: |
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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/taika-waititi-courted-star-wars-movie-1269996
Lucasfilm obviously couldn't get anyone to guide the entire "sequel trilogy" so we got a one-at-a-time-chain story. The GoT guys bailed out on their SW series for a better deal with Netflix. The Rian Johnson SW trilogy is up in the air because now they seem to not want to commit to three movies. Then there was talk of a single film with Kevin Feige, and now this. I think this is a bad sign. Don't get me wrong - Taika Waititi is awesome. But Lucasfilm is coming across as desperate to get anyone of caliber to work on single SW movies because a SW series may no longer that viable. They are already taking a three year break between film releases and then going to having films every other year. They just seem determined to the fly this snowspeeder straight into the ground.
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