The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Energy Shotguns
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech -> Energy Shotguns Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Energy Shotguns Reply with quote

I've been thinking off and on about how to make a blaster-based shotgun. The Decksweeper is an interesting idea, but if it was written up as a shotgun equivalent, then the person who wrote it probably didn't have much experience with shotguns.

The hard part is how to handle the simultaneous firing of multiple blasts of energy out of a single blaster barrel. Having the beam come out in a cone, ala the Decksweeper, isn't really the same thing.

I recently read a fan fiction where a Starfighter-Scale laser shotgun - technically a Variable Choke Arc Saturation Laser - was the main weapon for a close-in dogfighting starfighter, and something like this might be a viable explanation for the Flak Pod unit on the AT-AA.

My current vision of blaster weapons involves a tiny amount of blaster gas being converted into a linear plasma discharge in the blaster's firing chamber, which is then guided down the blaster's barrel by a series of containment field rings. What I'm picturing here is having the last field ring be modified to act as a "wobbler" that causes the blaster bolt to diverge into a series of pulses, each just off from true by a fraction of a degree. This device could vary the angle of dispersion (just like a barrel choke on a shotgun) and pulse rate, which would break the blast up into a greater number of pulses, each individually less powerful but saturating more of the arc in question (much like using birdshot shells instead of buckshot).

I've also been chewing on the idea of using my scale system to help represent the differences in shot type. Birdshot, for instance, is more effective against smaller, faster targets because of its greater saturation (more pellets in the air than buckshot). The size and damage of each individual shot is reduced, but you have a greater chance of getting a hit.

Anyway, I'm off to work, but I've been chewing on this one for a couple days and I wanted to get it in writing. Discuss.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dredwulf60
Captain
Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever played the video game Helldivers?

They do a pretty cool laser-based shotgun.
It seems to provide an effect that could be similar to what you are describing.

It's a pretty awesome to use weapon and is hands down one of the favourites used by many, many players.

When you fire, it sends out several thin laser-blasts at random arcs within your firing cone. When you pull the trigger again, you get another several thin laser blasts, but they aren't in the exact same position as the first trigger pull...

Stand back from a group of enemy and you are likely to hit several with one or maybe two of the laser blasts.

Stand close and you will hit with 3 or more.

Stand point blank and you hit with all of them.

But since friendly-fire is a thing....you have to be real careful about your allies when you are mowing down bugs!


Here's a video.

Guy starts using it around 1:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0QMMDftqY
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2567

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I handled it was to have the blaster fire (that is, "make") an energy bolt so powerful that it is unstable and begins to unravel in flight (energy/plasma/photon particles diverge from each other about 1cm per meter of travel. You can adjust the "choke" by a dial/switch, etc. which modifies the intensity of the magnetic doohicky regulating the whatchamacallit.

Basically, the bolt contains too much energy to remain stable in flight, so it decomposes/scatters a little bit.

Just curious: what would be the application for such a weapon? Are you looking for an "area of effect" attack? Combat loads are really only good for one target per trigger pull, though hitting targets on the move is theoretically easier with buck, provided they are far enough away for it to spread.

The biggest value of a shotgun in real lif fighting is hitting the target a bunch of times with one trigger pull. (I statted my scatterguns at 6D+2 damage within short range, reduced to 4D+2 at medium, and auto-miss beyond that).

Shooting birds is, of course, part of the shotgun's domain... but I can't comment much on that aspect of shotgun use.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pel
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 984
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your shotgun premise and the explanation of how it works (maybe diverging Galven circuits too). Seems very reasonable. I'd give a bonus to hit, but halve the damage after short range.
_________________
Aha!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Have you ever played the video game Helldivers?

It's a cool effect, but I'd prefer something closer to SWU-style blasters. This looks more like a beam weapon (ala the composite beam lasers from AotC).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
The way I handled it was to have the blaster fire (that is, "make") an energy bolt so powerful that it is unstable and begins to unravel in flight (energy/plasma/photon particles diverge from each other about 1cm per meter of travel. You can adjust the "choke" by a dial/switch, etc. which modifies the intensity of the magnetic doohicky regulating the whatchamacallit.

Basically, the bolt contains too much energy to remain stable in flight, so it decomposes/scatters a little bit.

Perhaps a combination of the two, where you have a big, relatively unstable blaster bolt that will retain cohesion, but a relatively short range, then the final galven coil on the barrel can be switched to a mode that slightly disrupts the cohesion of the bolt, causing it to fracture into multiple, smaller blasts.

This gives the shooter the option of toggling between slug, buckshot, and/or birdshot modes with the flip of a switch.

I also like that this makes it more of a purpose-built weapon, not simply an attachment you can throw onto the end of an existing blaster.
Quote:
Just curious: what would be the application for such a weapon? Are you looking for an "area of effect" attack? Combat loads are really only good for one target per trigger pull, though hitting targets on the move is theoretically easier with buck, provided they are far enough away for it to spread.

I'm not sure at the moment; I just like the idea of a blaster shotgun. One obvious application will be for small, fast moving targets, much like a real shotgun. The source material put a heavy version of this on a starfighter, and based on the above, such a weapon would be optimized for anti-missile or anti-starfighter usage (particularly against light, maneuverable ships like TIEs or V-Wings).

The close combat aspect of shotguns would also come into play, although how that would be game-ruled I have no idea.

Quote:
The biggest value of a shotgun in real life fighting is hitting the target a bunch of times with one trigger pull. (I statted my scatterguns at 6D+2 damage within short range, reduced to 4D+2 at medium, and auto-miss beyond that).

I saw that; my previous attempts at shotgun rules occured before I actually owned one, so I'm having to re-think a lot of my previous rule attempts. I'd prefer to keep to the RAW formula and give it the four standard range brackets, but with reduced damage as range increases. This would be off-set by added FC bonuses as range increases due to the spread of the shot, which would then use the 3=1 Accuracy Damage rule to boost damage based on how accurate the shooter was.

Quote:
Shooting birds is, of course, part of the shotgun's domain... but I can't comment much on that aspect of shotgun use.

One potential real-world application is anti-drone, using skeet-shooting skills to engage and destroy small flying cameras (as has already happened in a couple civilian instances). The same could be used in the SWU against droids.

I see potentially dove-tailing it with my Scale System, where the smaller "birdshot" modes would shift the Scale of the weapon down a level or two, causing it to inflict less damage (by dint of smaller, more numerous energy packets) but be more accurate against the kinds of targets shotguns have historically been used against.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
I like your shotgun premise and the explanation of how it works (maybe diverging Galven circuits too). Seems very reasonable. I'd give a bonus to hit, but halve the damage after short range.

Thanks for reminding me about galven coils. I remembered that piece of tech had a name in the SWU, but was blanking on it when I wrote this up. Reducing damage as range increases will certainly be a factor, but I think halving damage would be too much. Possibly something more on the lines of grenade damage, where there is a gradual drop-off as blast radius distance increases.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option would be to base it on Disruptor tech, seeing as how disruptors are already powerful but with limited range, but I’m partial to making this a blaster variant...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
thedemonapostle
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 237
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

without getting too technical...

you could just make a splitter device that attaches to the end of a regular blaster that simply splits the plasma bolt up into many separate smaller plasma bolts which would slowly spread apart the further it got from the weapon. this would reduce range significantly while giving a bonus to hit and the damage would remain unmodified.

you could make it as an attachment for regular blasters, which would simulate the real world equivalent of shot rounds (rat shot, snake shot, etc)

or you could make a barrel replacement that does the same thing. the barrel swap would use more energy and such thus causing more damage but would reduce ammo capacity dramatically. the barrel replacement would have a fully adjustable choke allowing for everything from the equivalent of light birdshot to buckshot to heavy slug loads and everything in between.
_________________
Aim low, shoot high
I'm a pirate, need I say more?

d6holocron.com: Thedemonapostle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedemonapostle wrote:
without getting too technical...

I could see an attachment as a less capable version of the purpose-built version. That would be a decent simulator for multi-ammo weapons that can fire, say .45 Colt and .410 gauge shotgun shells. A versatile weapon, but not as capable or powerful as the more specifically designed version.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2567

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I saw that; my previous attempts at shotgun rules occured before I actually owned one, so I'm having to re-think a lot of my previous rule attempts. I'd prefer to keep to the RAW formula and give it the four standard range brackets, but with reduced damage as range increases. This would be off-set by added FC bonuses as range increases due to the spread of the shot, which would then use the 3=1 Accuracy Damage rule to boost damage based on how accurate the shooter was.


I'm not sure the accuracy rules from RoE should apply to a scatter gun. If you want something truly analogous to a real world shotgun, the spread is pretty random, and a bonus to hit at longer ranges being converted into a damage bonus defeats the purpose of the reduced damage at range.

As for RAW ranges, I'd recommend using different profiles based on the choke setting (it' is effectively multiple weapons in one). The buck should have about the same range as a blaster pistol, with the slug having about twice the range. I'm not sure which should cause more damage, but I tend to imagine them both doing similar (i.e. in game terms exactly the same) damage at short range, with buck getting weaker beyond that, and slug maintaining damage all the way to it's terminally effective limit. The main benefit would be the space between point blank and medium (that is, "short" range) where I'd give the buck shot a bonus to hit due to some spread, and perhaps a bigger bonus to hit at medium, albeit with reduced damage (since any pellets that hit are hitting farther apart thus doing less traumatic damage).

Not sure how to handle bird shot other than to give it a similar range to the slug, but with significantly reduced damage (or, reduce it's damage at each range increment, and starting with a lower damage than the other two; for example, if you went with 6D+2 for your slugs/buck, perhaps 4D+2 would be starting damage for bird shot, and it falls off one pip per range increment down to 3D+2 at it's maximum range?)

CRMcNeill wrote:

I'm not sure at the moment; I just like the idea of a blaster shotgun.


Me too. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I think what I'd like to do here is keep the standard range brackets (PB/S/M/L), with the blaster selectable between three modes: "Slug", "Buckshot" and "Birdshot". Slug would basically be a powerful, short-ranged blaster bolt, ala Naaman's suggestion (in this mode, the refracting galven coil would either be turned off or set to normal mode). The different "Shot" modes, would then have their Damage decrease and their Fire Control increase as range increases. Something like so:
    Damage (by Range): 7D/6D/5D/3D
    Fire Control (by Range): +1/+1D/+1D+2/+2D+1
The "Birdshot" mode would then shift down a Scale step, (from Character to Small under my system), with a -2D to Damage offset by a +2D to hit. The Birdshot mode would be used for smaller targets like varmints, birds or small droids.

Once that's hammered out, there is room for Auto-Fire variants by tacking on the Auto-Fire rules. I can also see a "carbine" variant with either a folding stock that makes it more useful in close combat, or (with the stock removed) attached under the barrel of a standard blaster rifle (ala the M4 Masterkey) but tied into the same power pack, with the shot-blaster and regular drawing power and ammo from the same source. Of course, the shorter barrel (and thus, fewer galven coils) would make the carbine shorter-ranged than a full-sized model.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, as far as types, I'm thinking:
    Pistol - Basically a sawed-off, the size of a large blaster pistol.
    Gun - Baseline weapon in the same size range as a blaster rifle.
    Carbine - Short-barrel variant of the Gun, with a folding stock, designed for use in close quarters or as an under-barrel attachment.
    Combat - As Gun, but capable of Auto-Fire
    Sporting - Long-barrel version of the Gun, with greater range, commonly used for hunting birds (or small flying droids).

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12384
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on some general calculations, here are some range numbers based on the different models suggested above:
    Pistol - 2-4/10/20
    Gun - 10-20/50/100
    Carbine - 9-18/45/90
    Combat - 10-20/50/100
    Sporting - 15-30/75/150

Also, any thoughts on allowing this to be used with my (A) Marksman skill? I'm thinking of giving Extreme Range Damage 2D / Fire Control +3D.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2567

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to the extreme range thing, if you want something that is functionally identical to a shotgun, then its range is severely ballistics-limited. The "accuracy" of a slug through a smooth bore is pretty sketchy out past 75-100 yards.

Its not like a rifle where the bullet drops while still flying pretty straight. When a slug leaves the barrel, it's not nearly as stable as a rifle bullet, and so grouping with a shotgun is pretty pathetic (by rifle standards). In other words, no matter how skilled the shooter, there is a greater amount of built-in randomness that no amount of skill can compensate for.

I'm not sure what how much better a rifled barrel would be, though I'm sure its better (for slugs). If memory serves, it pushes the slug's effective range out to around 200m.

But if you're going for a perfect analogy, then this requires a dedicated slug barrel, rendering buck/bird shot ineffective (as well as these ruining the barrel if fired from a rifled barrel).
On the other hand, you could just ignore these limitations and say that the selector switch configures the galvin coils optimally for each ammo type.

(I tend to prefer installing opportunity costs when designing equipment; especially something as versitile as this shotgun blaster already is).

What ammo capacity are you looking at? I would probably rule that the shotgun puts a bigger draw on the power pack, so every trigger pull uses 5 or so rounds of ammo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0