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Yet another "Here's my Force Rules" Thread ...
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johnnymiskimen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Yet another "Here's my Force Rules" Thread ... Reply with quote

I’ve never been satisfied with any of The Force rules/mods I’ve read – except for pieces here and there. Most Force rules operate a lot like spell list rather than what we have heard of from the movies, so I took a few pieces of rules that I liked and combined them with a system that reflects what Qui Gon, Obi-Wan, and Yoda had to say about how The Force works:

Obi Wan – “Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flow through him.”
Luke – “You mean it can control your actions?”
Obi Wan – “Partially, but it also obeys your commands.”

"Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him." – Obi Wan Kenobi

“Size matters not. Look at me, judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, yes, everywhere. Even between the land and the ship.” – Yoda

“A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind ...” – Yoda

“Remember your training… trust your instincts.” – Qui Gon Jinn


The above quotes suggest, in game related terms, that ones physical and mental/emotional makeup directly affect how The Force manifests itself through a person/character.

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.


FORCE SENSITIVE
You simply choose to be Force-sensitive at creation, or you spend 20 Character Points (CPs) to become Force-sensitive at any point down the line. If a character is Force Sensitive, they initially have one pip (+1) in their Force Ability. They have a small connection to the Force, with minimal or no formal training.

THE FORCE ABILITY

This variant presents an alternate rules system for characters who have the Force skills Control, Sense and Alter. Instead of having three individual Force skills, a character with a strong connection to the Force possesses an attribute simply called Force.

USING THE FORCE
Using a Force skill or power has essentially the same mechanics as anything else in the game: pick a difficulty and make the roll. Difficulty levels are dependent on the individual power and are often modified by proximity and relationship (see charts).

INCREASING YOUR FORCE SKILL
Characters may spend Skill Points to increase their Force skill permanently, but it is very expensive. A character who has formal instruction from a mentor who has a Force skill of at least 3D {the minimum skill level to teach) may increase their Force skill at a cost of their current Die Code times two per pip (rounded up). That means if the character has a Force skill of 3D and wishes to increase it to 3D+1, they must pay six Skill Points.

An instructor must always have a Force skill higher than his student. A student cannot learn from a master who is less proficient than themselves in the ways of the Force.

A character can increase their Force skill without an instructor, but the cost is extraordinary. It costs five times the character’s current rating in their Force skill per pip (rounded up). This means that a character with a Force skill of 3D would need to pay fifteen Skill Points to increase their Force skill from 3D to 3D+1 if they did not have an instructor.

USING THE FORCE
How to call upon The Force -- Examples

Force+STR -- Lightsaber Skill/Reflexes, Force enhanced leaps and running, Force accelerated self healing.

Force+STR -- (Dark Side only): Dun Moch*, Force Choke and Force Lightning

Force+DEX -- Telekinesis, Alter Environment and defense against Force Powers

Force+PER -- "Jedi Mind Tricks,” Illusions, Force Assisted Sneaking/Stealth, Farseeing, Danger Sense, Life Sense

Force+KNW -- Telepathy and Battle Meditation

Force+MECH -- Intuitive Astrogation, Force Enhanced Reflexes for Piloting/Gunnery

Force+TECH -- Healing Others, Build Lightsaber

*Dun Möch was a form of combat that used distraction and doubt, usually through taunting, in conjunction with lightsaber combat.

FORCE POWERS AND CONCENTRATION
Any Force Power that has an ongoing duration or which can be maintained, requires concentration to thus maintain. If anything happens that can break this concentration (the Force user becomes distracted or takes damage), they must attempt to roll against Difficulty (Difficult 20) to continue to maintain use of the power. If they fail, the power is disrupted.


Last edited by johnnymiskimen on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:35 am; edited 4 times in total
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Potroclo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of the Force not being a kind of vancian magic system but instead obey to a mechanic that makes it feel more like the movie's representation of the Force. (I actually use homemade rules for the Force)

So if I got it right, you roll your attribute with the Force skill, but still apply the Force Powers' rules, having each Force Power attached to a particular attribute instead of a combination of sense/alter/control?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not bad. Smile
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johnnymiskimen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potroclo wrote:
I like the idea of the Force not being a kind of vancian magic system but instead obey to a mechanic that makes it feel more like the movie's representation of the Force. (I actually use homemade rules for the Force)

So if I got it right, you roll your attribute with the Force skill, but still apply the Force Powers' rules, having each Force Power attached to a particular attribute instead of a combination of sense/alter/control?


Yeah, that's basically it. Simple. Wink

{above edited for slight grammar mistakes and clarity...}
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. Some solutions seem to be inspired by d20s:
a) d20 Revised - Force skills modified by corresponding attributes,
b) d20 Saga - "Use the Force" - one skill to test Force effects.

Quote:
USING THE FORCE
Using a Force skill or power has essentially the same mechanics as anything else in the game: pick a difficulty and make the roll. Difficulty levels are dependent on the individual power and are often modified by proximity and relationship (see charts).

vs
Quote:
THE FORCE ABILITY
This variant presents an alternate rules system for characters who have the Force skills Control, Sense and Alter. Instead of having three individual Force skills, a character with a strong connection to the Force possesses an attribute simply called Force.


For clarification, during a character creation phase this Force should be considered a skill or an attribute when assigning hero dice pools (take from 18D for attributes or 7D for skills)?

When applied to the current Force powers with two or more skills involved, each with different difficulty what number is chosen as final? Highest, lowest or average from all of them?
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Potroclo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually that's a very nice solution, have you tried it up to higher levels? Does it keep the game balance? Between jedi characters and others I mean.

It does still rely on Force powers as in a spell list though. But those can be reworked...
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johnnymiskimen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
For clarification, during a character creation phase this Force should be considered a skill or an attribute when assigning hero dice pools (take from 18D for attributes or 7D for skills)?

When applied to the current Force powers with two or more skills involved, each with different difficulty what number is chosen as final? Highest, lowest or average from all of them?


I have used it more as a hybrid of the two as needed. What I mean is, in character generation it is more of an attribute, however in play it acts more like a skill. My group really doesn't use the listed Force Powers in the book so much, using the Force based on player creativity and the examples listed above. Listed powers in the book may appear in our game as lost wisdom from Holocrons or Jedi Masters in hiding.

We most definitely use averages, both for listed powers and NPC Force skills.

As far as higher level play ... we're not there yet.

Also, I have about as much concern for game balance between other character types as Lucas did in the films - none. I take my ques from the films over rules. Jedi are special ... the superheroes of the Star Wars Universe. They also have a rigid code of behavior and strict consequences for failing to uphold those principals. Falling to the Dark Side is a serious and constant threat and the end for these characters in regular play. Redemption is a rare feat to accomplish according to lore - "... forever will it dominate your destiny."

There has been little to no problem in my game concerning Jedi dominating the game. Most players are playing other classes, because as I have warned them; playing a Force Sensitive in this Pre-Rebellion/Prior Rogue One era puts them on the radar for very dangerous NPCs who are actively hunting those of the Jedi persuasion with great aggression. Few accept the challenge, but a few do. Balance, if ever I was concerned about such a concept, comes from player choices. If things would tip to a Force heavy game, well, as Qui Gon said, "There's always a bigger fish."
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnymiskimen wrote:
Also, I have about as much concern for game balance between other character types as Lucas did in the films - none. I take my ques from the films over rules. Jedi are special ... the superheroes of the Star Wars Universe. They also have a rigid code of behavior and strict consequences for failing to uphold those principals. Falling to the Dark Side is a serious and constant threat and the end for these characters in regular play. Redemption is a rare feat to accomplish according to lore - "... forever will it dominate your destiny."


It's nice to see another player who feels this way. Smile
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnymiskimen, I like the look of these Force rules. I may have to give these a try in my next campaign (should any of the players wish to be Force users).
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Yet another "Here's my Force Rules" Thread ... Reply with quote

johnnymiskimen wrote:

FORCE POWERS AND CONCENTRATION
Any Force Power that has an ongoing duration or which can be maintained, requires concentration to thus maintain. If anything happens that can break this concentration (the Force user becomes distracted or takes damage), they must attempt to roll against Difficulty (Difficult 20) to continue to maintain use of the power. If they fail, the power is disrupted.


So there is no duration factor here (emptiness, enhance attribute)?
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johnnymiskimen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Yet another "Here's my Force Rules" Thread ... Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
So there is no duration factor here (emptiness, enhance attribute)?


Concentration and common sense. For instance, lets say Don-Wan Fenobi uses the force to increase his STR. He must concentrate on using the Force to do so, which he obviously can't do indefinitely. So, for how long and when can he do it?

As stated above, "they must attempt to roll against Difficulty (Difficult 20) to continue to maintain use of the power. If they fail, the power is disrupted. The longer he wants to use the power, the difficulty number should be increased." That time limit should be handled on a case by case basis determined by the GM, using what we have seen in the films as a guide. No examples of enhanced STR comes to mind as a reference, however, we do see enhanced movement in the TPM by Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan and enhanced DEX from Luke in RotJ deflecting laser blasts and slicing the directional vanes of the speeder bike; both of which are very short term uses.

By using Force+STR to use enhanced STR and beat the Difficult Check, Don-Wan rolls well enough to access the power. The GM decides that this ability can be used, under optimal non-distracted use, for a few rounds - long enough to complete the task at hand. Distractions, such as doing the task under fire, would adjust the DC. To continue using the power beyond the original task would require another Force +STR check; and like any other skill or ability use, we are looking at a minus to the Force ability's Die Code - only now at an even higher DC. I would suggest 5 point increments, but really it's very situational and up to the GM at a reasonable rate.

This is just how I would do it, but you are free to change whatever you like to support your idea of the workings of the mysterious Force to suit your game.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Yet another "Here's my Force Rules" Thread ... Reply with quote

johnnymiskimen wrote:
If they fail, the power is disrupted. The longer he wants to use the power, the difficulty number should be increased.


So no more "automatic duration" like in case of "emptiness" or "old enhance attribute".
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johnnymiskimen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not by these rules. I use the films as a guide, and I have a hard time with the spell-like "Keeping Power Up," as we really don't see any evidence of this in the movies.

Admittedly, these alternative Force rules are a bit loosey-goosey and rely on GM fiat; but as long as a GM is consistent, flexible, and fair in his or her rulings, Jedi/Mystic characters have many more imaginative options when it comes to using the Force - within the mysterious groundwork that Lucas provided.

(Let's just forget about that Midiclorian crap from TPM, because, apparently George did in the following movies of the prequel trilogy...)

Of course, as I said before, feel free to modify and add to these rules to suit your game.

Very Happy
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnymiskimen wrote:
Not by these rules. I use the films as a guide, and I have a hard time with the spell-like "Keeping Power Up," as we really don't see any evidence of this in the movies.


I think every time Vader chokes someone, every time the emperor electrecutes someone we see classic "keeping up" a power, we even see the act relese, we see that the power is continuos up unitl this point where the user does little else than talk.

Death star conference room, Vader's hand, kept there until told to let Motti go, he then lowers his hand ending the power.

I think this is the best example of kept up powers.

some of the farseeing and sense powers I would think is such as well.

some powers howers I would rule as instant, and even automatic success or failure by non roll or hidden rolls.

Example is sense force, life detection and such

here you can sense this if it is not hidden, I can't see a roll needed as we see referneces to "felt a precence or disturance" etc.

So if there is anywhere where you have upkeep and examples of this we have this in the movies.
Even TLJ where luke is sitting on his rock, keeping up his projection to krayt.

etc etc

But as I mentioned above, I see some powers at times making less snese the way are written in raw compared to how they seem to work in movies/animated series
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, in TLJ as soon as Snoke was struck by a lightsaber blade his Telekinetic Kill faded immediately.

As for Luke's Doppelganger, the Falcon dice disappeared not after dropping the power but after Luke's death - the only movie example of power duration.
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