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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Your estimate of 7 million clones is likely low by several orders of magnitude. 7 million isn’t even enough to garrison one Earth-type planet. |
While agree, the "star wars" order of battle states that a legion of stormtroopers (+ support) is enough to take, hold and garrison a planet.
However while we do have earth like planets in nature to earth, we have very few planets in star wars that is not "one nation", and thus taking the capital is often enough.
I don't see that we have many cases where the empire or others, waged a war for years, aking town after town like in ww2 etc.
with very few exception, and they are there, we mostly see the battle of planet is fought over the most important military facility, captal or otherwise 1-2 targets to "take" the planet. so it can not be compareed on a one to one with earth nations fighting.
However I do agree that the 7 million is low, maybe even extremeluy low, however this comes from various scourse material that did state the total number of the clone cops, not the GAR as a whole, to be roughly 7 million clone troopers, and with a world where 12000 aka a legion is enough to take a planet then 7 million clones should go far even in that.
But yes the number is low |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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The Star Wars order of battle is wrong about many things. 15,000 troops to secure a planet of 6-7 billion, especially all else being equal (particularly tech level). There’s a lot of useful info in that chapter, but it badly needs a rewrite from someone who actually knows a thing or two about actual military operations.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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When you can park a star destroyer or three in orbit, i think 30-40 thousand is MORE than enough to pacify a planet.
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Mamatried
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | When you can park a star destroyer or three in orbit, i think 30-40 thousand is MORE than enough to pacify a planet. |
Maybe even less.
many scoursces state that a single ISD is enough to pacify and "occuply/hold" a planet.
and is what 1 legion on board for roughly 12000 |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Different era. You’re talking the Clone Wars, where the Separatists had a pretty even match. Throw in an ion cannon and a planetary shield and an ISD is worse than useless. Even a few theater shields protecting strategic assets in order to force a surface action would realistically require dozens of armored corps.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: |
The clones are not the only "military" in the SWU, though.
I do find it laughable that merely by being a "Jedi" a person is entitled to the rank of "commander" as a Padawan and "general" as a Knight... 14-year old Ahsoka giving orders to hardened troops really made me cringe, TBH... |
That is more in line with the pseudo-medieval fantasy element that Star Wars (used to?) have.
In the medieval days right up until the advent of modern militaries all you needed was a noble birth and money to be made a commanding officer.
The modern officer as a parallel rank ladder to the enlisted is a direct descendant of that original thinking.
Think about a 20 year career NCO and his just-out-of college 2LT commander. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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it is a myth that the empire was superiaor in the quality if commanders and officers.
as said above, many got their position through "family" and connections rather than skill.
I think however this can be shown in some of the imperial "officer" templates and even in some of the npc capsules |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | In the medieval days right up until the advent of modern militaries all you needed was a noble birth and money to be made a commanding officer. |
Indeed. The British Army allowed purchase of ranks from the 17th century until 1871. And for much of that period British Infantry were probably the best in world. In the American Civil War if you could raise a regiment you got to be the Colonel - no experience necessary. And many militia regiments elected officers at the company level and below.
And even before the Medieval period even professional Roman Armies had amateur officers (the tributes) with professional centurions who came up through the ranks and were probably closer to very senior NCOs than to what we think of today as commissioned officers.
Having professional officers is more the exception than the rule in Western military history. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Your estimate of 7 million clones is likely low by several orders of magnitude. 7 million isn’t even enough to garrison one Earth-type planet. |
Wookieepedia Canon says
"The Grand Army initially consisted of over a million clone troopers."
That's canon. Now I agree it's pretty stupid to think that a few million soldiers is a sufficient, or even significant, number of troops for a Galactic Republic or an Empire with a million worlds.
However these crazy low numbers are in keeping with the Flash Gordon style of space opera. In the old serials, world conquering Ming the Merciless seems to have only a few dozen space ships with crews of about 3 per ship. And he controls the planet Mongo and wants to take over the Earth and more.
It's a separate point, but a lot of science fiction seems to have a real problem with scale. |
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Just had an idea which can apply to any type of training.
In RPG adventures/campaigns, there are a few resources that characters have available to them in "fleshing out" their character concept.
Of course, there are character points (used to improve skills)
There's money (for equipment which takes advantage of their skills)
There are contacts (NPCs who can help the character)
And so on...
One of the resources that all characters have is time.
Time can be "given" by the GM for training, shopping, research, problem solving, repairs, etc, or it can be "taken" by the GM via interruptions or complications, etc.
So, based on this concept of character development at the expense of "resources," I've come to reason this as a potential solution to the "training" issue:
Any character who undergoes training does so at a cost.
In the case of advanced education, the character may have to pay out of pocket with cash, plus invest the time.
In the case with the military, a person may "pay back" their training by a commitment to serve (and get paid) in the military which trained them for an agreed upon term (effectively indenturing themselves for that amount of time after the training).
As for the skills, the instructor (or, the organization) gets to choose which skills get the benefits, and those benefits are as follows:
1) Upon receiving initial training in a skill, the character gets one pip for free if the skill had not been raised above the attribute already.
2) When raising the skills during the training program, the character gets a 1 CP discount for skills covered by the course.
3) The character earns CP during the training course. A training course may require a certain number of skill rolls (longer, more in-depth courses require more rolls). The difficulty should be based on the level of the course: entry level training should be easy, intermediate training should be moderate, and advanced training should be difficult, etc. If the character uses his time wisely during the course, he gets a bonus on the rolls (representing study, practice, etc.). If the character passes 70% of the rolls, he gets 1CP for each successful roll minus the number of D he already has in the skill.
4) The character must pass some kind of qualification exam in order to graduate the course. Passing the exam earns the character 5CP minus the number of D he already has in the skill (if he already has 5D or more, then passing the exam grants no bonus). The number of character points should be raised according to the level of training. For example, intermediate training might offer 7CP minus the number of skill dice, while advanced training might offer 10CP minus the skill dice, etc. |
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