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Encumbrance Rules
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am currently playing over discord, a campaign where we use a custom encumbrence/gear system.



We call it flex, and we so and so many flex points.

I am in combat, I decide to toss a grenade, in stead of writing down every piece of gear and the weight, we then use a flex point, we now have the grenade, it is used, and the flex ppoint allowed two grenades, I have a grenade left for later, .

this way we didn't bother with either credits for buying items or weight
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
How would you figure out what 'encumbrance' rating items of gear are then?

There's a helpful chart in the Link I provided above. Under that system, the character's Strength is used to convert to a Encumbrance (a 3D Strength = 18), and any Encumbrance going over that cap starts to impose penalties.


I didn't think the link had it (didn't check it out before hand)... BUT its a good start.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I didn't think the link had it (didn't check it out before hand)... BUT its a good start.

I think it points in the right direction, but the chart is a little too bespoke. I much prefer a system that ties into a rule already known, like Ionization penalties.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming back around to this after it got brought up on the FB group...

The more I look at the Challenge Magazine article on Encumbrance I talked about here, the more it ends up looking like what I was talking about here, using Cargo Capacity for ships to generate Cargo Increments. The Challenge article essentially already has a framework set up to generate the equivalent of a Cargo Increment for characters, as well as providing a framework for penalizing characters who go over it. Crucially, the Encumbrance penalty system parallels the 1E Wound / Damage system, which will provide a framework for weaponizing Encumbrance (which is one of the main reasons I got into this in the first place).

This would allow enough detail for a more granular campaign to impose encumbrance restrictions on characters, and cargo restrictions on ships, while graviton weapons (weaponized encumbrance) would bypass the weight calculations and go straight to the "damage" table, generating movement penalties by increasing the target's effective mass via graviton transmission.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something interesting I just noticed about the Strength - > Encumbrance Generation Table in the Challenge Magazine article.

2D=7 has long been accepted as a conversion rule-of-thumb under the D6 System (for the uninitiated, if you roll 2D, a 7 is the most likely probable result due to the combination of possible results on two D6 dice). However, if you double the value (i.e. convert to 1D=7), the Generation Table very nearly parallels this progression, usually only off by 1-2 points until the higher levels. Here's how the two compare:
Code:
Strength     Challenge   Double of   Difference
Dice         Value       2D=7
   1D         8       7      -1
   1D+1      11       9      -2
   1D+2      15      11      -4
   2D        18      14      -4
   2D+1      19      16      -3
   2D+2      20      18      -2
   3D        22      21      -1
   3D+1      23      23      -0
   3D+2      25      25      -0
   4D        30      28      -2
   4D+1      32      30      -2
   4D+2      34      32      -2
   5D        38      35      -3
   5D+1      42      37      -5
   5D+2      45      39      -6
   6D        50      42      -8
   6D+1      55      44      -11
   6D+2      60      46      -14
The Tab spacing didn't transfer over exactly right, but the idea is there.

Obviously, the conversion breaks down at higher Strength values, but there aren't going to be a lot of characters operating at that level anyway (assuming you're using Encumbrance rules at all).

So, to sum up, rather than using the chart from the article to generate a character's Basic Encumbrance, run their Strength (or 1/2 of their Lifting skill) through the 2D=7 formula, then double it.

Now for a 2R&E compliant Encumbrance Limit & Penalty chart...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, w/r/t the weight chart posted in the article, I have to say that some of the weights are a little questionable. Just as an example, the various blaster pistols range in weight from 1-4 kilograms, while in real life, only the largest pistols weigh more than 1 kg. Most rifles weigh around 4-5, and an M249 SAW (roughly equivalent to a light repeating blaster) weighs 10 fully loaded.

If you're going to use the numbers listed in the article, I'd suggest reducing their given weights by 1/2
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pakman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pak's simple encumbrance system....

This is from my core rules section - which is simplified...

Encumbrance
While weight is not tracked to the gram, objects have their bulkiness measured in pips, based on size.
    Tiny Objects: credit sticks, wrist com, data sticks, id chips, etc. have no encumbrance rating (a crate of them would however).
    Small Objects: near hand size, datapad, pistol, med scanners, recording rod, 3 powerpacks, 2 grenades, etc. +1 Pip.
    Medium Objects: are bigger, and usually take two hands, or some sort of sling etc. carbine, tool kit, etc. +2 Pips
    Large Objects: are bigger or bulky, almost always worn or carried –Rifles, Backpacks, survival kits, satchel charge, etc. +3 Pips.

Basic Load out: boots, basic clothing, comlink, a belt , goggles and such do not typically contribute to encumbrance. Exceptional items and armor however do.

Most character sized beings can carry 3D worth of gear before taking penalties. Each full Die (3 pips) above this may increase the difficulty for relevant skills; Athletics, Acrobatics, etc.
Once ENC = Charcters Lifting score, even moving at 1X requires a skill check. Of course, modified by the ENC penalty.

Special gear can increase capacity; - utility belts, bandoliers, backpacks, etc. – adding extra dice or pips of capacity (making things less burdensome to carry - distributing weight better, or keeping swinging things secure).

About Strength...
Why doesn't strength come into play on this more? (or lifting...).
It does and it does not - because this is not just about weight - this is also about size and bulk.

Even being a strong individual - having a bunch of bulky gear strapped to you - is an impediment.

Now - for SPECIFIC items that maybe are heavy - but easy to carry - the GM may decide that a strong person can carry more (such as a small case that is heavy - might count as less etc.).

In my game I use keywords for gear to help represent this (and other things)

    BULKY item - has double encumbrance rating for it's size (repeating blaster, power generator etc.).
    COMPACT item has ENC half for its size (think a heavy toolkit, but with an ergonomic handle or strap).

Also - strength DOES come into play - as a penalty of 1D to a stronger character - is less impactful (or lifting or whatever you use in your game for muscle power).

That is pretty crude Pak....
Yes - it is - but I did not want something too complicated - others may want so - to each their own. My players like this better than a lot of math...

Alternatively, instead of my arbitrary 3D capacity - the GM could use the character's lifting score as the base.

The main idea - is by using pip and dice - it allows for a more direct conversion of penalties - so you don't have to look up a chart.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the idea of encumbrance reducing the Move value of a person or even vehicle as well.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your classification system, as it would be very easy to assign Size / Weight ratings to just about anything (maybe paralleling my Scale system, but I digress).

A couple thoughts I’ve had that might gibe well with your system:
    -Allow characters to ignore any Encumbrance up to their Strength dice, or 1/2 their Lifting dice. Anything above that counts as a penalty.

    -Once a character is Encumbered above their “Capacity”, start applying Stamina rolls, Ala the Long Distance Movement rule, with a character having to make Stamina rolls that slowly increase in Difficulty the longer the character goes without resting.

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pakman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I like your classification system, as it would be very easy to assign Size / Weight ratings to just about anything (maybe paralleling my Scale system, but I digress).

A couple thoughts I’ve had that might gibe well with your system:
    -Allow characters to ignore any Encumbrance up to their Strength dice, or 1/2 their Lifting dice. Anything above that counts as a penalty.

    -Once a character is Encumbered above their “Capacity”, start applying Stamina rolls, Ala the Long Distance Movement rule, with a character having to make Stamina rolls that slowly increase in Difficulty the longer the character goes without resting.


Absolutely!

Messing with kilos is useful for big items (Can my character lift the e-web power generator to block the door...) but for basic inventory - I felt a simplified version of old school encumbrance would work.

Of course, items that might be big for their size (or lighter) - I just use keywords to adjust - but again, the idea is to have things be "close enough". Obviously a GM can interceded if a player does something....odd ("My wookie straps the droid to his back....so I can repair him later..." GM: "um ...ah...sure, um...lets call it a backpack...um..").

But by having things translate into pips and dice - means the gm can then choose how to apply it and thresholds.
(like it only matters if it above the STR or Stamina or whatever - or have each die code reduce move etc.).

You could also easily have the char's Scale modifier apply to what they can carry - etc.

On ships - I do super simple
empty is a small bonus.
About half full is normal.
Close to full is a penalty.

(I am reworking my ship movement rules - so the exact amount is being determiend - but you get the idea).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of similarities to my thoughts on Armor encumbrance, too…

Perhaps, in addition to Bulky and Compact, you could have Wearable (or something to that effect) as an item trait, with the distinction that its effective Encumbrance is reduced if it’s worn, as opposed to simply being carried.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A lot of similarities to my thoughts on Armor encumbrance, too…

Perhaps, in addition to Bulky and Compact, you could have Wearable (or something to that effect) as an item trait, with the distinction that its effective Encumbrance is reduced if it’s worn, as opposed to simply being carried.


Excellent idea - Wearable - might be half or none based on if being worn.

Of course - it is still being refined - but your comment is exaclty in line with the direction.
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jtanzer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to consider is that some armors are worn differently. For example, hauberks hang entirely on the shoulders, as opposed to plate armors are strapped to the body. This means that hauberks, despite being considerably lighter than plate, hamper mobility more. To reflect this, I'd consider a +1 or +1D increase to the encumbrance rating for hauberks, and a decrease of the same amount to plate.

As for how much a person can carry, I'd use the following table:

Encum<=Str: No penalty
Encum>Str: -1D Dex
Encum>Str*2: -1D Dex, -1D Str
Encum>Str*3: -2D Dex, -2D Str
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jtanzer wrote:
One thing to consider is that some armors are worn differently. For example, hauberks hang entirely on the shoulders, as opposed to plate armors are strapped to the body. This means that hauberks, despite being considerably lighter than plate, hamper mobility more. To reflect this, I'd consider a +1 or +1D increase to the encumbrance rating for hauberks, and a decrease of the same amount to plate.

Why would we need to consider chain mail and plate armor for Star Wars?
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jtanzer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was using it as an example of how different armors are worn and their effects on encumbrance. To use a more modern example, load-bearing equipment distributes the weight over more points on the body to reduce the felt weight and impact on mobility.
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