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Jump Packs & Flight Packs
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, let's make up some numbers for people to tweak.

Craft: Arakyd Aerodynes, Inc. Hush-About AJP-400
Type: Personal jet pack
Scale: Character
Length: .5m
Skill: Jet pack operation
Crew: 1
Crew Skill: Varies widely
Passengers: 0
Total Capacity: 300 kilograms
Cover: 1/2 (back only)
Altitude Range: Ground level-200 meters
Cost: 1,800, 150 (power pack recharge), 150 (portable carrying case)
Maneuverability: 1D+1
Move: 30; 90 kmh
Body Strength: 3D+2


Availability: 3, F or R
Game Notes: The Arakyd Hush-About AJP-400 is capable of lifting up to 300 kilograms (total). It moves vertically 200 meters per charge, horizontally up to 500 meters per charge. A fully charged unit has 10 charges and can be run on continuous charge-feed.
During normal operation this unit produces very little noise. Any attempt to locate a Hush-About using auditory pickups requires a successful search roll at a +10 penalty to the difficulty.

Notes: Most of this is straight copy, so I bolded the stuff I had to make up.

Length: About 2 feet; fits on a human-sized back
Cover: Covers a human-sized back, so about 1/2 cover, but only from the back; you can still get shot in the arms, legs, or head.
Altitude Range: None's really given, and I could have justified up to 1km (5 charges up, 5 charges down), but I felt 200m was reasonable
Manueverability: Y'all's call on whether this is high or low. I figure it's a personal-level device, and so you have SOME maneuverability, but it's also an inexpensive one, so it doesn't match an airspeeder or a swoop, while going to be more maneuverable than a sail barge or a skiff.
Move: I set this at about three times a human walking speed.
Body Strength: Made it up. Seemed reasonable. I don't see any reason for it to be less tough than a speeder bike (1d+2 Speeder scale), so left it there, and converted to character scale.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, a completely made up JumpPack

Craft: DagTech Industries Rapid Assault Pack (RAP)
Type: Personal jump pack
Scale: Character
Length: .5m
Skill: Rocket pack operation: Jump Pack
Crew: 1
Crew Skill: Varies widely
Passengers: 0
Total Capacity: 300 kilograms
Cover: 1/2 (back only)
Altitude Range: 1-15m
Cost: 1,800, 150 (power pack recharge), 150 (portable carrying case)
Maneuverability: 1D+1
Move: 30; 90 kmh
Body Strength: 3D+2

The DagTech RAP is a Rapid Assault Jump Pack; not capable of sustained flight, it instead thrusts the wearer forward with shocking rapidity. Standard safe use (i.e. cruising speed) moves the user forward 30 meters as a single move; the pack is capable of tripling that, but it is considered reckless and dangerous; not surprisingly, reckless and dangerous is favored by anyone willing to use a rocket pack to close distance with an enemy.

DagTech RAPs have a limited amount of fuel; they're kept effective by limiting their weight. Each pack has 20 charges, fully fueled, and each charge allows 30m of forward movement. Note that this might not be the total distance traveled; slower, more careful burns might travel 90m along an arc, but with a flight ceiling of 15m, it moves about 30m forward. Skilled Rapid Assault Troops will be firing the entire way.

RAPS in Space: Being rocket-based jump packs, RAPS function in space, but with a few modifications. Each spent charge provides 30m of acceleration along a vector; spend all 20 charges on the wrong vector, and you can get going to a 360 move that will end when you get sucked into a gravity well in several thousand years. Spend a charge along one vector, and you must spend another charge along the opposite vector to stop. Use of a RAP in space is limited by the lesser of one's Rocket Pack Operations or Zero-G Maneuvering (a Dexterity skill).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What determines the difficupty of the roll for the RAPS? And, does it double as a reaction skill (if so, why shouldn't climbing/jumping also be a reaction skill)?

If conditions at the targeted landing spot change while in flight, I assume course correction is not possible?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
What determines the difficupty of the roll for the RAPS? And, does it double as a reaction skill (if so, why shouldn't climbing/jumping also be a reaction skill)?

If conditions at the targeted landing spot change while in flight, I assume course correction is not possible?


Like all vehicle skills, Rocket Pack Operation for a RAP is a reaction skill, and the difficulty is determined by speed (30 being Cruising speed) and terrain (it is easier to jump through clear sky to flat ground than through crowded sky to cluttered ground).

I envisioned RAP as having a small amount of maneuvering, but I also pictured their movement as being a single round... I jump, I fly for a few seconds, I land.

Climbing Jumping isn't a reaction skill because Dodge is, and that's a different question altogether.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump Pack
Skill: Jump Pack Operation
Range: 10m-20m/50m/100m (Long Jumps expend 2 Fuel Charges)
Fuel: 20 Charges
Capacity: 1 Character & their personal equipment. Additional cargo increases all Jump Difficulties by +1 for every 10 kilograms.
Game Use:
    -To initiate a jump, the operator designates a landing point, then rolls his Jump Pack Operation against the Difficulty for that Range. +5 to all Difficulties when making an Ascending Jump, and -5 when making a Descending Jump (this is at the GM's discretion, but as a rule of thumb, it applies if the jumper is ascending or descending a greater distance than they are moving laterally).
    -On a Failed roll, the jump still occurs, but the jumper deviates from his intended landing point by 1 meter for every point by which the Jump Pack Operation roll failed, in a direction dictated by the Grenade Deviation Diagram (2R&E Rulebook, pg. 92), with the '4' result being direction of the intended jump.
    -The Operator may also attempt to 'double jump', that is, make another jump Move while still in mid-air, but at +10 Difficulty, and expends an additional Fuel Charge (Jumpers may use this option to recover from a failed jump by making a Difficult Jump Pack Operation roll).
    -On a successful Long Jump, the operator may extend the maximum distance traveled by 1 meter for every point of success.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Jun 24, 2023 1:45 am; edited 4 times in total
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been looking over these, and i like them.
great write ups.

I do have one question though, for a jet pack/flight pack how long can you use it? minutes or hours?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Naaman wrote:
What determines the difficupty of the roll for the RAPS? And, does it double as a reaction skill (if so, why shouldn't climbing/jumping also be a reaction skill)?

If conditions at the targeted landing spot change while in flight, I assume course correction is not possible?


Like all vehicle skills, Rocket Pack Operation for a RAP is a reaction skill, and the difficulty is determined by speed (30 being Cruising speed) and terrain (it is easier to jump through clear sky to flat ground than through crowded sky to cluttered ground).

I envisioned RAP as having a small amount of maneuvering, but I also pictured their movement as being a single round... I jump, I fly for a few seconds, I land.

Climbing Jumping isn't a reaction skill because Dodge is, and that's a different question altogether.


Yeah, I get what you mean. I just can't get my head around the concept of a "piloting" skill that is more like throwing a grenade than steering or guiding a movement. Once airborne, the pilot is essentially a sitting duck until he lands (he's basically a ballistic object till he lands).
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I have been looking over these, and i like them.
great write ups.

I do have one question though, for a jet pack/flight pack how long can you use it? minutes or hours?


Depends on your speed, but for about 5km of horizontal movement... likely just minutes.

Something like the Hush-about, though, I view as being somewhat like an electric car a few years ago... a personal transport that has limited range, and an expectation that once you've used it, you're not going to need it for a while, so it can be recharged or refueled.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I have been looking over these, and i like them.
great write ups.

I do have one question though, for a jet pack/flight pack how long can you use it? minutes or hours?

At the moment, I'm picturing Jump Packs as having limited fuel, and only used for short bursts, while Flight Packs can be used for longer periods of time, probably subject to something like the Long Distance Movement rules for running out of fuel / overheating. At the very least, Jango appears to get extended use out of his pack in AotC...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH, when thinking flight packs, I was thinking of Cad Bane's rocket boots.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
TBH, when thinking flight packs, I was thinking of Cad Bane's rocket boots.

That's on my mind, as well, but I'm thinking those should be something rare and not readily available to PCs. Maybe some sort of miniaturized, distributed architecture flight pack system that's appropriately high cost and low availability written into the stats.

I'm also thinking of a third type: a Thruster Pack, specifically optimized for movement in Zero-G, with Flight and Jump Packs optimized for in-gravity operations.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the flight packs should be able to match speed with your basic speeders. Whenever I've seen them used, they were able to keep pace with skiffs and speeders.

I feel like the inherent danger of failing a maneuver and crashing doing full direct damage to the pilot is enough of a deterrent to keep the packs from being overused/abused by players.

So, maybe something in the 80; 230kmh speed range?

Also, as far as flight ceiling is concerned, make it as high as it still has enough atmosphere to operate, see my above solution. If a character flies so high and runs out of fuel or whatnot, they'll most likely fall to their death. No reason to cap operational altitude.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concept for flight ceiling is to treat it as an Altitude Increment, so that every increment step you go up, you suffer a Lost Move. So, if your Base Altitude is 1,000 meters, you can perform normally at 1,000 meters or below, then if you go up to 1,001-2,000 meters, you can no longer go All-Out, then from 2,001-3,000 meters, you can't go Full, and so on and so forth.

It's not perfect by any means, but it's better than a hard altitude cap.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I think the flight packs should be able to match speed with your basic speeders. Whenever I've seen them used, they were able to keep pace with skiffs and speeders.

That brought back cringey memories of watching TCW and seeing exactly that. I feel that's ridiculous because if you had that much thrust, the fuel would be used up very quickly. So even if you could travel the same speed as speeders, you could not sustain it for very long so you wouldn't be able to 'keep pace'. In the cartoons, flight packs and small astromech droids have seemingly unlimited fuel for high speed and fancy maneuvers. What are they using for fuel? Anti-matter?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
I think the flight packs should be able to match speed with your basic speeders. Whenever I've seen them used, they were able to keep pace with skiffs and speeders.

That brought back cringey memories of watching TCW and seeing exactly that. I feel that's ridiculous because if you had that much thrust, the fuel would be used up very quickly. So even if you could travel the same speed as speeders, you could not sustain it for very long so you wouldn't be able to 'keep pace'. In the cartoons, flight packs and small astromech droids have seemingly unlimited fuel for high speed and fancy maneuvers. What are they using for fuel? Anti-matter?


TBH, one of the things in TLJ that threw me was talking about fuel... it never seemed to be an issue anywhere I could recall, before. Sure, you'd have damaged ships, non-functioning engines, all sorts of things, but never really out of gas.

I sort of set up a headcanoned dichotomy... In Star Wars, you had infinite energy, which got you things like hyperdrive and lightsabers. In Star Trek, you had pretty much infinite matter, due to replicators and the like.

Aside from WEG, TLJ is the first place I saw mention of refuelling as opposed to maintenance being the concern for SW ships.
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