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Whill
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 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | So by automated do you mean that the system is droid-brained (5th degree labor droid) so doesn't need an active operator? |
Correct. It may, however, require some supervision. But give the droid brain a list of cargo crates or pallets (assuming they all have tracking chips or bar codes) with destinations (such as, "move these lots to the loading bay and eject them") and it will do it on its own. |
I really like this idea. The ship doesn't really need yet another special feature, but it does use up 10% of the cargo capacity. I'm thinking this 10% reduction is mainly at the ceiling with room for the robot arms to move around. Actually I already rounded down on the cargo capacity I had calculated from the hold space using the Far Orbit formula, thinking that even a fairly fully stocked hold would ideally still have some aisles and such like a warehouse, and this 10% reduction for this feature actually about justifies that first reduction. So adding this feature to all four holds, and maintaining some organization space, I think I will lower the cargo capacity.
And from a prior job at a big box store, I actually have some experience unloading semi trailers and remember how well packed they can be. I know that especially with robot cargo arms, cargo could be well-packed. But Imperial customs inspectors should sometimes want to inspect the cargo that is harder to get too, so there should be some room in the holds to shift cargo around. Technically the hauling power and cargo hold volume are two separate things - Ships can have more or less room than what tonnage they can haul. But one of the illogical design issues of the DeepWater deckplan is that it has way more space than what it can haul for most cargo types, so I wanted the MC-13v2 to have a cargo capacity that is closer to using the available cargo volume, to not have quite so much wasted space so often. So I can reduce the capacity another 50MT knowing that a ship captain could pack the ship much tighter with low density cargos or overload it with overload rules if he really wanted to.
And I really love the idea of four 5th degree droid brains controlling cargo loading arms on the ship. Occasional malfunctions and glitches could be fun. Thanks a lot for suggesting this idea!
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:48 am Post subject: |
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I can easily see it being ceiling mounted... Would also make for a great 'anti-border' weapon if needed!
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I can easily see it being ceiling mounted... Would also make for a great 'anti-border' weapon if needed! |
I doubt a simple Fifth-Degree Droid could be programmed for combat, but an innovative character might be able to tag a boarder as a lot of cargo to be dumped overboard...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I can easily see it being ceiling mounted... Would also make for a great 'anti-border' weapon if needed! |
I doubt a simple Fifth-Degree Droid could be programmed for combat, but an innovative character might be able to tag a boarder as a lot of cargo to be dumped overboard... |
That's how i envision it.. Someone on the bridge, 'tagging' a border as "Cargo to get ventilated".. EITHER THAT or manually operating a joystick (like in those grab the bunny box games, to get toys etc)...
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I can easily see it being ceiling mounted... Would also make for a great 'anti-border' weapon if needed! |
I doubt a simple Fifth-Degree Droid could be programmed for combat, but an innovative character might be able to tag a boarder as a lot of cargo to be dumped overboard... |
| garhkal wrote: | | That's how i envision it.. Someone on the bridge, 'tagging' a border as "Cargo to get ventilated".. EITHER THAT or manually operating a joystick (like in those grab the bunny box games, to get toys etc)... |
That's a funny image in my mind's eye, but I'm seeing more comedy ensuing from the 'dumb arms' than serious defense. I would think that the cargo handling units are preprogramed with safety protocols to not harm living beings, but maybe a droid programming roll could be made to override that. Even without that, I can easily see the cargo handling units restacking cargo crates to barricade the entrances to the holds.
The DeepWater has two large cargo bays with the cargo lifts directly to the holds, so I can imagine one cargo handling unit on the ceilings of each of them for that ship. However, in the MC-13v2, the cargo lifts to the cargo airlock/loading bays are separate rooms from the holds. Since there are two fairly big holds on each side of the loading bays, I can't see the cargo handling systems all bunched up over the lifts in the cargo airlocks when the hold doors are closed, and then extending out to the far sides of both adjacent holds from inside of loading bay. So there would need to be 4 cargo handling units on the MC-13v2, one in each of the 4 holds. They can extend arms into the loading bay when loading or unloading cargo.
Also, the MC-13v2 has a six-person escape pod underneath the deck of the common room, so this ship sits fairly high off the ground. When a cargo lift is lowered I can't see the arms of the system coming from a hold, going into the loading bays, and then also going all the way down to the bottom of the lift, so there would still need to be someone (be it a droid, ship hand, or spaceport hand) on the ground by each cargo lift to load and unload the cargo. But up in the ship, the cargo handling units could handle it all.
This is really a great concept and totally Star Wars. I indicated in the capsule that the MC-13v2 had improved cargo logistics over the DeepWater, but with a vastly larger cargo capacity and fully loaded ship, it would take all day to load and unload cargo, so this is really a necessary feature for this particular ship and I am making this system a standard feature for this model. Thanks again.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to help..
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: MC-13v2 |
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I made some edits to the second through fifth posts of this thread (directly linked above) and just wanted to summarize them here.
(1.) In the stat block, I updated the stock Crew stat to 2 with a skeleton crew of 1. With the larger overall ship size, huge cargo capacity, and submarine mode, this ship should not be as easy to control as a YT-1300. My modified ship will have some automation upgrading to a Crew stat of 1.
(2.) I reduced the total cargo capacity by 40 MT in the stat block and capsule. See (11) below for what is now taking up some of the ship's original capacity.
(3.) In the capsule, I corrected one instance where I had written "pilot" when I had meant to write "captain".
(4.) I added a sentence to the capsule referencing the original design concept of the ship because it helps justify this ship having such a high total persons escape pod capacity (and also further references the forthcoming passenger variant).
(5.) In the capsule, I updated the sentence regarding the timeframe of the early Calamarian rebellion for better diction.
(6.) I updated the deckplan key slightly to reconfigure the two bridge auxiliary duty stations. See below.
(7.) In the deckplan key details, I reconfigured the bridge station duties in accordance with the stat change from Crew 1 to Crew 2, putting shields access in both piloting stations and shifting some other functions around.
(8.) I accordingly also moved some of the system technical access in the bridge deckplan key details.
(9.) I slightly edited a bridge description sentence that was comma happy.
(10.) I threw a medpac in with the fire suppression equipment on the bridge.
(11.) I added mention of the automated cargo handling systems to the deckplan key details description of the cargo holds.
(12.) I added mention of the jettison controls to the deckplan key details description of the security office and cargo airlocks.
Shortcut to Page 3 of thread. Any other feedback?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:06 am Post subject: |
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no. Looks good.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| Whill wrote: | | This is really a great concept and totally Star Wars. I indicated in the capsule that the MC-13v2 had improved cargo logistics over the DeepWater, but with a vastly larger cargo capacity and fully loaded ship, it would take all day to load and unload cargo, so this is really a necessary feature for this particular ship and I am making this system a standard feature for this model. Thanks again. |
No problem. I am, however, thinking that the addition of the ACH system makes the paragraph about the cargo ejection system superfluous, as that aspect is now incorporated into the larger system.
Another thought (and I'm hesitant to bring this up, considering the late stage nature of this project) is that the port and starboard loading bays could benefit from having Corellian-style docking rings on the sides of the ship. I'm assuming that, when the ship is landed in a port or hangar bay, cargo is loaded using lifts in the floors of the loading bays, but that system wouldn't mate well with standard docking bays.
Unless said loading dock is paired with the boarding ramp, but then cargo transfer would have to move through the connecting hallways. So you'd either need droids to do the heavy lifting or extend the cargo handling system into the hallways leading to the loading bay...
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:27 am Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | ...This is really a great concept and totally Star Wars. I indicated in the capsule that the MC-13v2 had improved cargo logistics over the DeepWater, but with a vastly larger cargo capacity and fully loaded ship, it would take all day to load and unload cargo, so this is really a necessary feature for this particular ship and I am making this system a standard feature for this model. Thanks again. |
No problem. I am, however, thinking that the addition of the ACH system makes the paragraph about the cargo ejection system superfluous, as that aspect is now incorporated into the larger system. |
I'm not sure what you are saying, so I'll paste the text below. The DeepWater has cargo lifts that go directly into holds, when my real world motivation for this ship's cargo airlock/jettisons was to take space from cargo holds.
| In the capsule, Whill wrote: | | The MC-13v2 freighter has a cargo hauling capacity of 370 tons, improved cargo logistics, and a cargo jettison system. The ship's certification to operate in the Republic was initially rejected by the Republic Space Ministry which stated that the cargo jettison system encouraged smuggling. However, they relented and approved the ship after the Mon Cala Mercantile Fleet cited a Ministry report which recommended cargo jettison as the best way to survive pirate attacks. |
This is part of the general overview/introduction to the ship. The jettison system is worth special mention here because a lot of ships do not have that feature. Sure, you can makeshift jettison or just dump cargo, but this is a dedicated system that power-launches the cargo (or whatever) out into space. Beyond mention of it, it goes a bit into the in-universe history of its approval by the space ministry as an explanation for how a ship can have such an obvious smuggler feature but still be legal.
| In the deckplan details, Whill wrote: | 16. Port and 21. Starboard Aft Cargo Bays: These two smaller cargo bays have a volume of about 48 cubic meters each. All four cargo holds feature an automated cargo handling system consisting of telescoping overhead arms with a crane/grapple system that can move cargo to and from the loading bays, and organize it in the holds. All cargo holds have magnetic and conventional equipment to keep cargo in place. All cargo holds are climate controllable, capable of preserving refrigerated or frozen cargoes.
17. Port and 20. Starboard Cargo Airlocks: The main feature of these areas are lifts in the floor to facilitate the loading and unloading of cargo. These rooms also function as airlocks, which is helpful when cargo has to be loaded or unloaded in inhospitable atmospheres or a vacuum. Additionally, the cargo lift includes a mechanism to jettison cargo. Unlike the other airlocks on the ship, the cargo airlocks are not floodable, but the lifts can be lowered to the surface of water when the ship is in pontoon mode. The controls for the cargo lift and airlock are located at the aftmost section of the inner walls. Controls for the cargo jettison, and additional controls for the cargo lift and airlock, are located near the blast doors in the corridor and the cargo bays.
18. Port and 19. Starboard Fore Cargo Bays: The larger cargo bays have a volume of about 58 cubic meters each. |
This is from the deckplan details. I'm not seeing how the addition of the automated cargo handling system makes the paragraph about the cargo ejection system superfluous. Any ship could have one or the other without having both. This ship could have jettison without automated cargo handling (like this ship did before your suggestion), or automated cargo handling without jettison. I can see a lot of ships with no cargo airlock (like all the ships in Stock Ships) have the ACH system. The jettison and ACH would seem to both need mentioning where they are mentioned.
Does that address your reply? If you have any further specific suggestions, please clarify.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Another thought (and I'm hesitant to bring this up, considering the late stage nature of this project) is that the port and starboard loading bays could benefit from having Corellian-style docking rings on the sides of the ship. I'm assuming that, when the ship is landed in a port or hangar bay, cargo is loaded using lifts in the floors of the loading bays, but that system wouldn't mate well with standard docking bays.
Unless said loading dock is paired with the boarding ramp, but then cargo transfer would have to move through the connecting hallways. So you'd either need droids to do the heavy lifting or extend the cargo handling system into the hallways leading to the loading bay... |
One thing that I am very strict about is that all deckplans need an external ship image to go with it. I have dabbled in graphic design but I am no artist. I can't make starships from scratch because I can't just make an external image. I also can't significantly alter artwork. So any deckplan I make will have to have an existing external image to base it on. The Mc-13v2 is based on the DeepWater. I did some photoshop to the Stock Ship's external DeepWater art to match it up to my deckplan, but I can't just start adding external features to the ship or it would start to look crappy. So unfortunately, it is not just issue of the late stage of this project. I do not feel confident in my ability to add that to the external image.
All that being said, this ship does have a Corellian-style docking ring on the starboard side of the ship. Please see 23 on the deckplan. This docking ring is also visible on the external image. So when cargo is being moved through the docking tube, the doors for 22 and 23 would stay open. Cargo being brought into the ship would go through 23, then 22, and then into the corridor to any of the four cargo bays where the ACH system would take over. For cargo being unloaded through the docking tube, the ACH would give it to the hands or droids at the corridor entrances of the holds where they would move it to 22, then 23, then into the docking tube.
So it is true that there is only one docking ring instead of two (because the port side has an escape pod in the same place), and there definitely is a longer path to move the cargo through the ship to and from the holds, external spaceport docking (or ship-to-ship) cargo transfers are still an option on this ship. But no it is not the first choice, which yes would be to land somewhere they can use the ventral cargo lifts. No, I do not see the ACHs reaching throughout the whole ship - I can only see them operating in the holds and reaching into the cargo airlocks.
This ship having ACH isn't going to put the crate-buster unions out of work. As I stated in my above post you quoted from, use of the ACH system in this ship is not going to eliminate the need for droids, ship hands, or spaceport hands to move cargo even when able to use ventral cargo lifts, because there would still need to be someone under the ship to move cargo on and off the lifts. It's true that with the ACH units, the hands don't have to go into the ship when using the ventral cargo lifts, while they do have to go into ship when using the docking ring, and that will take more time. As far as heavy lifting, I would imagine that most cargo is in repulsor crates, or on repulsor pallets, so any mook would be able to move those.
| In the deckplan details, Whill wrote: | 22. Vestibule: The vestibule connects the corridor to the starboard airlock, but the main feature of this area is the entry ramp which lowers on the outer end and extends to the surface underneath the starboard airlock when the ship is grounded. The entry ramp cannot be lowered while the starboard airlock is in use.
23. Starboard Airlock: This is a floodable airlock capable of vacuum and water transitions. When the ship is needed to dock with space stations or other ships in space, there is an extendable boarding tube. This airlock cannot be used when the entry ramp in the vestibule is lowered. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:03 am Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| Whill wrote: | | I'm not sure what you are saying |
I'm saying that, because of the multi-role nature of the ACH system, the ship no longer has a dedicated cargo ejection system; instead, it has an Automated Cargo Handling system that can, if needs be, also serve as a cargo ejection system.
As such, unless the ACH system has some sort of dedicated ditch-the-cargo programming or overrides that are normally considered illegal, there wouldn't be any cargo ejection system included in the ship's design per se.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:03 am Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I am, however, thinking that the addition of the ACH system makes the paragraph about the cargo ejection system superfluous, as that aspect is now incorporated into the larger system. |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | I'm saying that, because of the multi-role nature of the ACH system, the ship no longer has a dedicated cargo ejection system; instead, it has an Automated Cargo Handling system that can, if needs be, also serve as a cargo ejection system.
As such, unless the ACH system has some sort of dedicated ditch-the-cargo programming or overrides that are normally considered illegal, there wouldn't be any cargo ejection system included in the ship's design per se. |
There are legal reasons to ditch cargo, like giving pirates some booty they don't have to put much effort into getting, in hopes that they will let you fly away with your ship and your life. That was already provided as the explanation for how the jettison was approved. In-universe, the jettison is an intentional design feature of this ship. I'm not seeing why adding ACH would eliminate the cargo ejection system as a separate feature.
For this ship, I'm seeing the cargo jettison as a separate system from the ACH system. If the ACH is not functioning for some reason, a person or droid can move cargo from a hold to the cargo airlock, then step out, close the door and activate the jettison. If the ACH is working, then a character can tell the ACH to move certain cargo to the cargo airlock, and then it is still the character that activates the jettison. The ACH is not needed to activate the jettison - It just may or may not be involved in putting the cargo into position to be jettisoned.
Maybe I am envisioning the ACH differently than you are, but I see the ACH as just a low-intelligence mechanism for moving cargo around. The ACH does not question the morality or legality of what it is doing or the cargo it is carrying. It is just a 5th degree labor droid built into the ship, with bio-scanners and failsafe programming to not harm living beings.
But even if I considered the jettison to be a part of the ACH, I'm also still not seeing the paragraph about the cargo ejection system being superfluous. As I stated in the last post, I see jettison as an uncommon feature in freighters so it is worth mentioning the jettison specifically and how the jettison was originally approved. On the other hand, I see the ACH as a lot more common than a cargo jettison feature. So the norm on ships with ACH would be ACH without jettison capability.
I consider ACH to be a part of that cargo jettison paragraph already, unnamed as part of the "improved cargo logistics" in the first sentence. The jettison is not considered part of the "logistics", so that is separate. Logistics implies to me the normal everyday functionality of which the ACH is part. The jettison is a rarely used emergency function. Do you think that I should make the jettison system subservient to the ACH, and/or that I should specifically name the ACH system in the paragraph about the cargo jettison?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Do you think that I should make the jettison system subservient to the ACH, and/or that I should specifically name the ACH system in the paragraph about the cargo jettison? |
I think the cargo jettison function should be incorporated into the larger cargo handling system; having the separate jettison system is redundant if the ship has a single system that can do both. I could see it as an add-on later if the ship was modified with smuggling compartments.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Do you think that I should make the jettison system subservient to the ACH, and/or that I should specifically name the ACH system in the paragraph about the cargo jettison? |
I think the cargo jettison function should be incorporated into the larger cargo handling system; having the separate jettison system is redundant if the ship has a single system that can do both. I could see it as an add-on later if the ship was modified with smuggling compartments. |
Well the ACH is your original concept, and I understood that it was conceived as a factory upgrade. So do you you now feel that cargo jettison is an inherent aspect of all ACH now, or do you feel jettison is an upgrade to the upgrade, if the ship was manufactured to have the physical capability for cargo jettison?
I'm trying to understand your view, but it seems to me that it would be very rare for a ship to even have the physical capability of jettison while ACH would be fairly common, so most ships that have ACH would not have jettison capability anyway. And for rare ships with both, I see the jettison as being available for characters to do manually even if the overhead arms with a crane/grapple system were not functioning.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: automated cargo handling system |
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| Whill wrote: | | So do you you now feel that cargo jettison is an inherent aspect of all ACH now |
Yes. Since the droid brains running the system know where the various lots of cargo are located in the bay, moving specific portions of cargo to the loading bay and ejecting them into space is functionally no different than a normal unloading process.
After all, any ship can manually dump cargo; it just requires that the crew or droids move the cargo to the airlock and flush it out. But what's described in GG6 is an automated system that functions either on a dead-man switch or a command from the ship's computer. And that's a lot of utility for a system that only takes up 1 metric ton and costs 1,000 credits (per GG6).
Viewed in tandem with the Handling system, I see the Jettison system as either an after-market upgrade for ships that don't have a Handling system, or an upgrade to smuggling compartments
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