| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Another thing that's been bothering me for a few months.
The resistance ships aren't "lighter". Since it's in space and everything is weightless, they're the same weight.
Small ships wouldn't be faster. They'd probably be slower cause they'd have smaller weaker engines. Like how in the era of tall ships, bigger ships are faster than smaller ones because they all have similar resistance across the bow but longer ships could fit more sails. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TauntaunScout wrote: | Another thing that's been bothering me for a few months.
The resistance ships aren't "lighter". Since it's in space and everything is weightless, they're the same weight.
Small ships wouldn't be faster. They'd probably be slower cause they'd have smaller weaker engines. Like how in the era of tall ships, bigger ships are faster than smaller ones because they all have similar resistance across the bow but longer ships could fit more sails. |
They don't have weight, but they do have mass, and you have to overcome mass to accelerate. A lighter ship might have a better mass-to-engine ratio, and thus be able to accelerate faster.
Like the urban legend about someone strapping a JATO to a car. Put the JATO on a Hercules, and it lumbers off the ground. Stick it on a Jetta, and it imbeds itself into a mesa.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Well the whole thing is just one more annoyance in a general mishmash of nonsense so I'd best not overthink it. Obviously no one in Hollywood suffered from overthinking anything in this trilogy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone own TRoS yet? It is out in digital and blu-ray formats now (and dvd I think). I don't have it. This is the first SW movie I haven't bought on the day of (physical) home video release since I got the original trilogy in 1987.
10 SECRETS AND SURPRISES FROM THE SKYWALKER LEGACY DOCUMENTARY
So the home video has 2 hour documentary. According to the linked StarWars.com article, here are a few interesting tidbits from the doc...
Alec Guinness’s granddaughter, actress Sally Guinness, is a First Order officer. Nice easter egg/cameo.
The voice actor who voices Babu Frik had no experience with puppeteering, but got a crash course on the set so she could physically perform the character in addition to providing the voice. That's pretty cool.
In the cameo shot with John Williams, there are supposedly references to all 51 Oscar-nominated films scored by John Williams. It was a nice gesture to give him a cameo, but I think this was a pointless huge waste of time and energy. In a film with so many issues, couldn't they have tried to resolve some of the plot holes? Abrams obviously had a mission to make TRoS a billion dollar grossing movie and succeeded at that, and he couldn't help himself further indulged his weird gigantic soft landed space wreckage fetish, but I can't fathom the motivation to put so much work into something so insignificant and completely unnoticed by most fans.
All this time, I assumed that the main reason Leia was retroactively made a Jedi in TRoS was just because Abrams thought Rey needed a Jedi training sequence above and beyond what little she got from Luke in TLJ to better sell the audience on her earning Jedihood. Lucas said TESB needed Luke to have a full blown Jedi training sequence because his 'first step' on the Falcon in ANH were too small and brief. But, Abrams does not think like Lucas. It seems I was wrong. Abrams views the reveal in RotJ of Luke telling Leia that she will learn the Force in time as "a promise that had not yet been fulfilled." TRoS is viewed as rectifying this by not only revealing Leia as Rey’s Jedi Master, but also showing some of Leia's training. ...
If this was such a glaring unfulfilled promise of RotJ, then why was that not in TFA and TLJ?! Why now, after Abram himself and Rian Johnson both already committed to the choice that Leia was not a Jedi so much so that killing Luke was the sole action required to destroy the Jedi from ever returning to the galaxy? Does Abrams not understand chronology, which way time flows? If Leia was ever trained as a Jedi that had to happen before TFA, but if it was before TFA then the plots of TFA and TLJ don't make sense. Or was it just that the Luke being the single mysterious McGuffin of TFA suited TFA (and TLJ followed suit), so now that those movies were made it suited Abrams to tell a contradictory backstory for Leia just because that suits TRoS?
This is more evidence that Abrams doesn't care about franchises, and didn't even have any concern for making a coherent trilogy. He only cares about the movie he is currently making and his main mission is making money for the studio which ensures his brand and future paydays. That's Kennedy's job. It shouldn't be the director's job too. And sadly, in the process of continuing the success of his brand, Abrams is willing to cater to the lowest common denominator of fandom to corral a wide variety of customers, which includes a very large number of nominal/casual fans and rabid indiscriminate fans who drool over anything Star Wars (so much that they spend more than a paycheck on Star Wars merchandise for a movie they haven't even seen yet), while not giving a damn that he is alienating a lot of die hard SW fans like myself.
Before I said Abrams could have tried harder and made a movie that a lot more longtime full saga fans would accept. Maybe it wouldn't have been quite as successful as what we got but I felt it still could have had integrity and made a lot more money than Solo. Now I think I was deluding myself and giving Abrams too much credit. Look at TFA, an enjoyable rehash of ANH despite some absurd stuff. I'm now starting to feel that I should have seen that this DT was always doomed from the start. It's just my optimistic and positive nature to just assume the best.
I used to think AotC was over edited, but TRos is an incoherent jumble of mishmashed "feel good" story beats. Some people say the prequels were bad, well in retrospect they don't seem so bad now do they? The PT was fluffed-up backstory to the CT but Lucas added symmetry and made them poetic with respect to the CT. The DT has no poetry. It doesn't even have a focus or overarching story.
The DT is just 'Put the OT in a blender, add a dash of RotS, and see what pours out.'
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
From what I've heard, the film was edited and meddled with by the higher-ups, and Abrams had to start the writing and filming process over again due to the fact that they weren't going to use the Duel of the Fates script.
I'll also at least give him the extra benefit of the doubt that it was going to be basically impossible to continue the plot points from The Last Jedi in a satisfactory manner because it was so far out of left field. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Scots Dragon wrote: | From what I've heard, the film was edited and meddled with by the higher-ups, and Abrams had to start the writing and filming process over again due to the fact that they weren't going to use the Duel of the Fates script.
I'll also at least give him the extra benefit of the doubt that it was going to be basically impossible to continue the plot points from The Last Jedi in a satisfactory manner because it was so far out of left field. |
Well, at least one major beef of mine could have been resolved in a way that logically followed from TFA and TLJ, but overall I can't disagree. But really, starting the "trilogy" with a remake of ANH, no matter how good it was as a single film, was a clear sign that the DT was pretty hopeless to amount to amount to much.
TFA was the exciting blast that hit the snowspeeder, TLJ was crashing it into the ground, and TRoS was the pilot jumps out of the wreckage and runs around like a taun taun with his head cut off until he gets stomped on by an AT-AT walker leg.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: |
Well, at least one major beef of mine could have been resolved in a way that logically followed from TFA and TLJ, but overall I can't disagree. But really, starting the "trilogy" with a remake of ANH, no matter how good it was as a single film, was a clear sign that the DT was pretty hopeless to amount to amount to much.
TFA was the exciting blast that hit the snowspeeder, TLJ was crashing it into the ground, and TRoS was the pilot jumps out of the wreckage and runs around like a taun taun with his head cut off until he gets stomped on by an AT-AT walker leg. |
I don't know what to say to this. While I agree with your overall reaction, I guess I am spared the surprise of it cause I felt the same way about the prequels. I've watched "the suits" ruin every franchise I loved back in the day. Including gaming universes that weren't even movies. So the surprise for me is long gone. It's a big part of why I got so big into historical gaming and reenacting. No one owns the IP to **** with it. The only way to change the so-called canon is for someone to discover new primary source evidence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well for the PT it was the Flanneled One, not the suits. 
Although I feel TFA should have been a clear sign, the outcome of the DT wasn't really a total surprise for me. I realized while I was watching TFA that it was a remake of ANH, but I just chose to not worry about it and give them a chance to go a more original (and still) quality route from that point. I was always going to give the entire trio a chance no matter what.
On the day they announced the the title of TLJ, I knew (and predicted publicly here) that they were going to kill off Luke. That gave me an uneasy feeling because that should be in the third episode. The film, while subverting expectations in some ways, still regurgitates many elements of the CT and was largely unenjoyable. I began to have a palpable bad feeling about this "trilogy".
While I didn't have high hopes for TRoS, I do admit that I never expected TRoS to be anywhere near as nonsensical. And hindsight is 20/20. But no one can say I never gave it a chance.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: | Well for the PT it was the Flanneled One, not the suits.
|
True, there is also an equal and opposite category I refer to as the gd "artists". These are the people who I blame for ruining Warhammer. When a bunch of suits and gd "artists" team up, they can ruin anything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: The Prophecy of the Chosen One |
|
|
In 1983, the second Star Wars sequel was released. The Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Vader, who had once been Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker, chose to destroy his evil master, sacrificing his own life to save his son's. The Jedi had returned.
From 1999-2005, three prequel films were released that did nothing to alter or diminish Anakin's sacrifice. New context was added to the original accomplishment. Emperor Palpatine was also secretly a Sith Lord, the Sith Master in fact. The Jedi and Sith orders had been enemies for millennia. And there was an ancient prophecy made by a Jedi mystic that a Chosen One would destroy the Sith...
| The Maker spoke and I wrote: | You gotta remember this is one movie, and it's meant to be seen 1 through 6 so I think when you watch the actual movie in order, the story will become very clear that Anakin is the Chosen One. And even when Anakin turns to Darth Vader, he is still the Chosen One.
The prophecy is that Anakin will bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith. He becomes Darth Vader. Darth Vader does become the hero. Darth Vader does destroy the Sith, meaning himself and the Emperor. He does it because he is redeemed by a son. So the prophecy is true. And by doing that he redeems himself and he goes from being Darth Vader back to being Anakin again. |
These were words spoken by George Lucas and transcribed word-for-word, on the Revenge of the Sith featurette entitled "The Chosen One". This is plain and straightforward. It is important to note that this documentary is cited in the Canon article for the Prophecy of the Chosen One. Lucas' statements have not been rendered Legends-only continuity.
| In the 2019 Canon novel Master & Apprentice, author Claudia Gray wrote: | | "A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored." |
There will always be the Dark Side. Fans debate what "balance in the Force" really means, but it is simple. Balance is the Dark Side being kept in check. The Sith upset the balance by swinging it too far to the Dark Side. The prophecy, in both Legends and Canon, includes the destruction of the Sith, which at the time of its destruction was Palpatine and Vader. The destruction of the Sith is just how the balance will specifically be achieved.
Rey Skywalker Completed The Chosen One Prophecy ?
In The Art of Rise of Skywalker, the film's production designer Rick Carter expressed his belief that Rey completed the franchise's Chosen One prophecy, not Anakin...
| Quote: | | The Episode I prophecy was that a Skywalker was somehow going to help balance the Force. Rian Johnson opened Star Wars up to the possibility that, if Rey is not a Skywalker by blood, then being the mythological Skywalker is something you can aspire to and achieve in your life - which I think is great. It's not only your destiny based upon birth. Maybe the life lesson in this one is that sometimes you have to go beyond what seems like a finite destiny. That's what it is then to be a dreamer and to be a Skywalker. |
What a bunch of blah blah blah. The first problem with this is that, in Legends and Canon both, the Chosen One was never said to be "a Skywalker". So even if you accept that Rey is a "mythological Skywalker" by her declaration, the prophecy never said you had to be a "Skywalker" so this premise is meaningless. However it was explicitly stated that Anakin Skywalker specifically fulfilled the prophecy.
And before someone points out that Palpatine in TRoS is a clone so Anakin did destroy the real Sith in RotJ, please keep in mind that only Palpatine's body was cloned. The TRoS novelization makes it explicit that Palpatine's soul left his body while it was falling down the shaft on DSII (before the body even died) and entered a clone body waiting for it on Exegol. So Palpatine in TRoS is supposed to be the same exact character in a different body. According to the TRoS novelization, Anakin didn't actually destroy the Sith at all - Anakin only temporarily relieved the galaxy of the Sith for three decades.
Also, the quotation from the canon version of the prophecy that was approved by the Story Group for publication in the same year that TRoS was released did specifically state that the Chosen One would be "born of no father". It was explicitly revealed by the Canon novelization of TRoS that Rey did have a father. That man was a non-Force-sensitive clone of Palpatine, but he was still Rey's actual father.
Is Rick Carter honestly misremembering the Lucas films? Is he intentionally trying to use the Jedi Mind Trick on fandom to hope that the BS flies? Who knows? Either way, he is incorrect. His statements aren't Canon anyway, but add to the whole clusterfudge in and surrounding TRoS. Now let's move on to the writers of TRoS. They both maintain that Anakin did fulfill the prophecy, but...
| Quote: | | Chris Terrio... stated that Rey has achieved a balance for the current moment.[40] In the feature-length documentary The Skywalker Legacy, J.J. Abrams affirmed this to be the case, clarifying that the balance in the Force is never permanent and has to be restored from time to time.[41] |
In its first sequel, Star Wars was retconned. Now Vader hadn't killed Luke's father - Vader was his father. Now Obi-Wan was lying in the original SW film. I accepted this change in premise because it adds to the ongoing story without undermining the drama. In fact it adds to the drama of the first film's climax now that Vader almost killed his son before his son destroyed the Death Star. RotJ making Leia as Luke's sister likewise enhances the drama of Vader and Leia's interactions in the prior two films. These things expand the story in a way that is entertaining.
I could have accepted the DT undoing the resolutions of the first 6 films (the Jedi Order poised to return to the galaxy, Palpatine's death, and even Anakin not fulfilling the prophecy) if it had been satisfying and worth it. It wasn't. Abrams maintains that Anakin did still fulfill prophecy, but the balance that Anakin achieved only lasted for a few years. This is weak. In canon, the prophecy is over a thousand years old and predicted the Sith would destroyed, but why would there be a prophecy so far in advance of such a short-term accomplishment?
The DT, especially TRoS, suffers from a severe case of sequelitis. TRoS hurts the other films for the sake of helping itself. Even if you love TRoS despite it, you can't deny these facts. My reactions to TRoS aren't because I changed for the worse as a fan or person. What I love and have always loved about Star Wars is still 100% in tact in me. The DT, and especially TRoS, oppose to what I love about Star Wars. It's not me. I find the suggestion that I am somehow lacking as a person just because I don't enjoy everything they slap the brand "Star Wars" on to be offensive.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Prophecy of the Chosen One |
|
|
| Whill wrote: | | My reactions to TRoS aren't because I changed for the worse as a fan or person. What I love and have always loved about Star Wars is still 100% in tact in me. The DT, and especially TRoS, oppose to what I love about Star Wars. It's not me. I find the suggestion that I am somehow lacking as a person just because I don't enjoy everything they slap the brand "Star Wars" on to be offensive. |
Exactly how I feel about the PT. And to a lesser degree the ST. I find them both to be a bunch of sharkjumpery. But at least the ST had practical effects & costumes, and not-Hayden-Christian-acting. And no disturbing callbacks to old racial tropes.
TROS however, jumped so many sharks as to bring it back down to Prequel levels of unrewatchability. TFA and TLJ had a lot more spine chilling moments of fist pumping awesomeness than TROS. Although, the barely metaphorical rape of Rey by Snoke is pretty friggin' weird. I prefer Lucas' old vision for Star Wars as being free of sexuality. I doubt these the ST will age well at all. Help me Mandalorian! You're my only hope! Please don't mess up Season 2!
The sequels are bad but my kids sure like the ones I've shown them but that's more about A) gender representation and B) Kylo Ren's lightsaber. They never met a lightsaber variant they don't like. My daughter finally learned her color words so that she could accurately articulate which Disney Princess' dress she was talking about. My son learned his color words so that he could accurately describe which SW character's lightsaber he was talking about. But that's another story.
I am glad I found Clone Wars on DVD, and liked it. Now when my kids wanna see Anakin or Clone Troopers we watch that, it's fun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: | https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2493608/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalkers-writer-reveals-extensive-rewrites
In the The Art of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker book, writer Chris Terrio stated that he’d never had to do more rewrites for a film than he did for The Rise of Skywalker.
| Quote: | | It’s like a tide. There’s a new script every morning. But we just keep going at it and going at it, loosely thinking that it’s not good enough. It’s never good enough. |
You said it! |
I don't know if it's never good enough. But it certainly wasn't good enough when they stopped. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| And as dumb as it was to kill him off, Old Luke was pretty much the highlight of the ST. My 2 year old told me yesterday that he wants to do work to earn a figure of "Luke Skywalker when he's old like in The Last of The Jedis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TauntaunScout wrote: | | I don't know if it's never good enough. But it certainly wasn't good enough when they stopped. |
They stopped, so now it's never. Lucas doesn't own it so it won't be continually revised. I don't expect TRoS to get any better.
| TauntaunScout wrote: | | And as dumb as it was to kill him off, Old Luke was pretty much the highlight of the ST. My 2 year old told me yesterday that he wants to do work to earn a figure of "Luke Skywalker when he's old like in The Last of The Jedis." |
I feel Han in TFA more of a highlight of the entire DT, but to each his own. And that action figure of old Luke in his Jedi robes is the only figure I have from TLJ. I hope he gets it.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
