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TRoS, The Sequel Trilogy & The Skywalker Saga
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was handled with all the intelligence and forethought of real estate bankers in the mid 00's.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
It was handled with all the intelligence and forethought of real estate bankers in the mid 00's.


Make a damn outline. You cannot pants a multi-billion dollar cultural touchstone.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:

Make a damn outline. You cannot pants a multi-billion dollar cultural touchstone.


Yes you can. You just need to believe in yourself. Because true strength comes from within!




Course you also can't hire people who think you can see planets blowing up from the surface of other planets. So this was doomed from the beginning.

One thing I really dislike about the ST is, they use dumb side plots and McGuffins to go get other McGuffins instead of getting on with the GD show. They're also really big into Star Trek's weird solutions for stuff. In Star Trek the crew will have some huge external problem as a backdrop for interpersonal drama. Then at the end of the episode someone will say some technobabble about modifying the sensors to temporarily disrupt the alien energy field or something, and that's that. It works ok for ST but not at all for SW.

No one has any personal goals or motivation, everything is driven by plot contrivance.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Disney released TRoS on Disney+ today, meaning all movies are there now but Solo (which comes in June). They are really pushing the "Skywalker Saga" marketing. It's making me nauseous.




There are a lot of armored characters on the dark side.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
So Disney released TRoS on Disney+ today, meaning all movies are there now but Solo (which comes in June). They are really pushing the "Skywalker Saga" marketing. It's making me nauseous.




There are a lot of armored characters on the dark side.


Oh, that's EASY to explain.

Darths lead from the front. Stormtroopers are notoriously bad shots. Armor isn't to protect them from the good guys... it's to protect them from getting shot in the back by people who consistently miss what they're aiming at. Mr. Green
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Barbarossa41
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HiSHE's take on TRoS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barbarossa41 wrote:
HiSHE's take on TRoS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I


It's not that far off.
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barbarossa41 wrote:
HiSHE's take on TRoS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I

I just watched that twice. That's hilarious!

Before I posted my response to TRoS, I did some searches for TRoS criticisms to see what was out there. A lot of people had identical or similar criticisms to mine. I also found a bunch of others, some of which I didn't agree with and others of which I didn't think were really worth posting.

I see that this video was posted 3 days after I posted the first five posts of this thread. This video has some criticism I hadn't thought of, but even better it has some I had. Since there was animation involved I don't think my response influenced it because it had to have been written beforehand, but it does show that multiple fans independently had the same issues with some stuff.

For some reason seeing these in animation make me feel somewhat more vindicated in my views. I particularly enjoyed seeing Rey realize that if a Force ghost was as powerful as Luke's was, then Force ghosts should have the power to battle the Sith (when TESB establishes they don't). Probably my favorite part of the video was one tiny little acknowledgement of one of my biggest issues with TRoS, when Anakin's ghost tosses Palpatine into the pit...

Quote:
Execute Order: Fall and go splat! ... Yes! Chosen One!


Cool
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, this was a sad end. What could have been will forever haunt the theater-of-the-mind. ROGUE ONE, A NEW HOPE, and EMPIRE STRIKES BACK form a flawless trilogy that I will watch again and again. Everything else weakens the whole. From the 2nd Deathstar, Ewoks, and Chewie's Tarzan yell in ROTJ to the majority of the prequels (which at least had a powerful score and a few good scenes - Obi Wan on Kamino, and Anakin and Palpatine at the opera) and every moment of these latest uninspired bungles... "Just because we can" is not reason enough to add to this mythology. At least Dave Filoni knows what he's doing.
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Barbarossa41 wrote:
HiSHE's take on TRoS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnieKUgv3I


It's not that far off.


Okay, this is the best one they've done since Frozen. I especially loved the banking Star Destroyer.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marvel Comics pulled TRoS comic adaptation mini-series from the release schedule. There apparently isn't any official word from Disney/Lucasfilm/Marvel yet as to whether it is permanently cancelled or just pulled with no definite rescheduled release (like the current status of the live action Mulan movie). Like the novelization, it was supposed to address plot holes from the film. I wasn't planning on getting it (I only have the original Marvel comic book adaptations of the CT films).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:46 pm    Post subject: TROS NOVELIZATION Reply with quote

The Last Jedi - Thoughts and Reactions

The Rise of Skywalker, The Sequel Trilogy, and The Skywalker Saga (TRoS THOUGHTS AND REACTIONS)

9. The Rise of Skywalker NOVELIZATION (this post)

I didn't tell anyone I was reading the TRoS novelization, but I read the book. It was very hard to get through. Most of the reading occurred when first laying down to go to bed for the night, and sometimes I would only get a page read before feeling sleepy. I sometimes would wake up and read a 1-2 chapters on Saturdays. I stopped reading the book several times to read other books, and I had to force myself to pick up this book again. I took notes with pencil in a spiral notebook (which was also very hard in bed) and noted page numbers. Now I can't even remember when I started reading the book. After finishing the book, I watched the movie again (5th time total, 1st time at home).

This past week when I've had a chance here and there, I transcribed the notes into a word document, sometimes adding to it or rewording. Sometimes I had to open the book back up and figure out what the hell I was talking about. There were a few notes I left in the notebook because I don't know what my point was or why that was notable.

Some of these are just quick info bites with no commentary. A lot of these notes do have brief commentary, and a few of these have deeper connections about main points. But this post will be an easy read, a lot easier than the third, fourth, and fifth posts of this thread. Notes on the entire novel are all here in a single post, and they are presented in order of page number. Some notes reference multiple page numbers and put it where it seemed most natural to write it.

There will be a brief conclusion at the bottom of this post. Here is an anecdote involving TRoS opening night at the theater. A short time ago, in a galaxy far, far, far away...

The Rise of Skywalker novelization by Rae Carson (hardback edition)

Chapter 1

That's not how the Force works. p. 15 – Rey is arguing with BB-8. "It is how it works. There are Force spirits; Luke wrote about them in the Jedi texts. They come when you need them the most." That has literally never happened before. And more so, a Force spirit actually told Luke that he could not interfere when Luke would need him the most, and he didn't interfere. This was Abrams retconning Star Wars again with revisionist history in his attempted Jedi Mind Trick on the fans. You tell her, BB-8. And this also addresses one "controversy" about the film. After TRoS, Dave Filoni was asked about Ahsoka Tano's death since she was a Force spirit voice who spoke to Rey. He said he didn't think that Abrams meant she is literally dead. The novelization makes it more clear that yes, he did mean that she was dead. Either Abrams just didn't care about any plans for her character and just put her in the film dead, or Dave was covering up and knows she is going to die at some point before TRoS. I'd give it 50-50.

Chapter 3

Klaud's antennae. p.34 – So the novelization explains that Klaud's antennae are prehensile and that's how he repairs the Falcon. When I watched the movie again, there was no hint of this. Klaud leans in and looks intently at the part he is supposed to repair new the cockpit. The antennae don’t do anything in the movie. There could have been a TRoS screenplay notes, a cut scene, or maybe the author is filling in for the film.

Sinta Glacier. p.34 – So Tantive IV (Leia's ship at the beginning of ANH) had been rescued from an Imperial impound yard at some point and was now in the hands of the Resistance. The reason for the Falcon going to Sinta Glacier in the first place, which was never revealed in the film, was to get a part for the Tantive IV.

Kylo's "Ren" helmet. p.40 – So the simian alien metallurgist with Yoda-years fixing Kylo's helmet was a "Sith alchemist." The reason all the Knights of Ren were watching it be repaired is because the Helmut is the symbol of the Ren order and they can't follow Kylo him without the helmet. Once he redons the helmet, the Ren are suddenly loyal to him again. That helps explain the stupid helmet in the first place, but why would Kylo wait a year to repair the helmet? And this also doesn't make any sense with respect to a premise change introduced in TRoS. See Chapter 17 below.

Chapter 4

The Calamari Prophecy. p.50-51 – When the Resistance is discussing Palpatine's return, Threepio states that Palpatine and Kylo Ren are "on the verge of launching an unstoppable Empire" to which Aftab (son of Ackbar) replied, "They'll crush us! My father warned this day would come." Really? Ackbar predicted Palpatine would return and combine forces with Kylo Ren to destroy the Resistance?! Ackbar must have been Force-sensitive too.

Always two Wayfinders there are. No more, no less. p.58 – Beaumont (the new Resistance historian guy) tells Rey that the Wayfinders are ancient Sith relics. There are only two in existence because there is one for each Sith Lord in the Rule of Two. Lando is not incorrect. So Ochi could leave Exegol without a Wayfinder but needed one to get back. And that dagger was made matching the shape of Death Star's wreckage after it landed on the ocean moon and somehow the dagger made its way back to Exegol (without a Wayfinder) so Palpatine could give it to Ochi, so he could find Palpatine's Wayfinder, which Palpatine had never actually retrieved, so just left it in the DS wreckage for 31 years. Okay…

Luke's voice. p.58 – Leia hears Luke's voice tell her, "It's time," which he does again a couple more times before she dies in Chapter 13.

One-sided conversation. p.59 – Maz "and Leia" have an exchange about Han's death, Rey, Luke's lightsaber, and Leia's declining health. But Leia doesn't actually say anything the whole conversation except repeating the end of one of Maz's statements by murmuring, "True path." This was obviously one of the Leia scenes cut from the film. It's too bad because it would have explained a lot. But even worse is the fact that in the novel, they could have made it an actual dialogue with Leia speaking and it wouldn't have contradicted the film since the scene was completely cut. The novel was delayed to be in synch with the film, so there is no excuse.

Rey's Falcon. p.61 – Rey thinks the Falcon is her own.

Chapter 5

Lando's daughter. p. 74 – Lando said that his daughter was abducted by the First Order, but he doesn't indicate when that happened, why he can't leave Pasaana, or why he doesn't fly anymore. Rey questions him about staying here and Lando vaguely answers, "Here or there. The desert helps you forget."

Chapter 6

Treadspeeders. p.79-80 – Treadspeeders have shields and rubberized treads.

Chapter 7

Sith emblems. p.89 – Threepio said that the speeder's emblem was "common". I didn't realize the Sith were so common that they put their emblems on their speeders.

Desert planet sinking fields. p.90 – Rey speculates that Ochi's ship was unmolested by the locals all these years because the locals would know to stay away from the sinking fields, like the Jakku locals knew to stay away from their sinking fields. The books gives no explanation for why Ochi landed in the sinking fields area or what he was even doing on that planet in the first place!

Desert planet giant snakes, and the farmers of the sinking fields. p.92 – Rey had heard of this giant snake (a "vexis") when she lived on Jakku. According to Rey, "Leia says when something's trying to hurt you, it was usually hurt by something bigger. Like farm equipment. A grain farmer had probably rolled a tilling blade right cross the creatures lair, flaying it open." What the huh?

Rey Jedi Mind Tricks Finn. p.94-95 – When she is going out to face Kylo's first interceptor.

Finn agrees with me about Poe asking for Finn's help instead of Chewie's! p.97 – Finn "hated feeling useless" while 'helping' Poe after Finn ordered Chewie to go get Rey. Again, it makes no sense that Poe would want Finn to help him get Ochi's ship ready for take-off and the author even had Finn think he wasn't able to help. Poe should have asked Chewie, and Finn could have been the one with the dagger that got captured by the Knights of Ren. Chewie and Finn switch and Finn gets a character arc as he is captured by the First Order that he deserted until they are all back together on Ren's star destroyer.

Knights of Infamy? p.98 – "Finn felt like he was choking on" the "malevolence" that "radiated from the dark figures in waves… The Knights of Ren. They could be no one else." The novelization doesn't give any backstory on the Knights of Ren other than mentioning the importance of Kylo's helmet, so this bit is just a cheap technique to artificially inflate their "malevolence" because the narrative doesn't do it. A brief backstory is in TRoS Visual Dictionary, which includes who the original "Ren" even was (the former master of the knights who Kylo defeated), but it doesn't help make them any more interesting. The Knights of Lame didn't get any less lame in this book.

Chapter 8

The First Order has everything. p.107 – The First Order towed the Falcon to the "incineration hanger." It's probably right next to the Execution Trooper Gym & Juice Bar.

Poe and the shifty story group. p.112 – Zorri said to Poe, "You know, I'm still digging my way out of the hole you put me in when you left to join the cause." Poe is in his 30s and used to be a spice runner. This revelation of a shifty background didn't really go too deep into Poe's character and explain how he became a smuggler and later a Resistance fighter, but it didn't contradict the prior two films that didn't go into his background at all. However, everything about the way the book and movie play out indicates that Poe was a spice smuggler immediately before joining the Resistance, and this completely contradicts his prior publishing background that indicated he was the son of two Alliance Rebel heroes who became a New Republic fighter pilot before defecting to join Leia's Resistance. (I actually read the TFA prequel book that gave backgrounds for Rey, Finn, and Poe.) So to address the discrepancy, post-novelization publishing now indicates that Poe was a spice runner in his teens before he joined the New Republic military, so the rest of his original publishing background remains intact. The problem is that was 15 years earlier when the film and novelization clearly indicate he was a spice runner much more recently and Zorri is still very mad about his departure directly to the Resistance. Plain and simple, this is utter proof that Disney Story Group out and out lied when they proclaimed that all canon is equally canon in the new canon. Abrams was clearly under no restriction from Poe's non-film background and had free reign to do whatever he wanted in the film without any regard to publishing. So films can retcon publishing just like in the old Lucasfilm, but the difference back then was that George Lucas was completely honest and open about it. Disney lies. Canon publishing's solution to shoehorn Abrams' background for Poe into theirs is in clear defiance to what Abrams' intentions were in the film, but Abrams couldn't care less what they do in the books because he got to make the film he wanted to with no "creative" restrictions, and it made all the money it did anyway. Fans will probably eat up publishing books with Poe's new background so Disney will cha-ching all the way around anyway.

Chapter 9

Rey v Kylo. p.118 – While Chewie is captured on Kylo's star destroyer, Kylo said, "I have not forgotten that you shot me" in reference to the Starkiller base in TFA. The novel goes on to state that wound was the only reason Rey had defeated Kylo on Starkiller. It's true, of course, and its purpose here is partially to demonstrate the danger for Rey against an unwounded Kylo. But it is still sad that it needed emphasized two novelizations later, only because there has been so much fan criticism forgetting about Kylo's obviously severe bowcaster wound, and because there wasn't a lightsaber duel in TLJ to even bring it up in that book.

First Anakin, now Han. p.119 – Kylo senses Rey is replacing Han in Chewie's heart. Rey is supplanting everyone!

Chapter 10

Rey cra-cra. p.134-136+? – During Rey's remote battle with Kylo in the Kijimi system, the novel may have more details about Rey being left on Jakku than what was shown in the film. (I don’t totally remember if the film has much less detail.) But one thing that is more clear in the novel is, that Kylo is not the only one who is insane. Rey was extremely traumatized by her abandonment on Jakku. She seems to know a lot more truth about her parents and has just suppressed it all. Of course this further highlights the fact that this "trilogy" wasn't plotted out with any overarching plot. When Lucas made ANH he didn't know if there even was going to be a second Star Wars movie, but Disney clearly planned on pumping out at least one film per year, so it really needed a plan.

Chapter 11

The futility of Hux's thoughts. p.142 – Hux is shown thinking through how Finn and Poe would have to leave the droids on the star destroyer, right before the droids appear.

Chapter 13

Klaud, what did you do? p. 156 – The author attempted to fix the Falcon's nonsensical landing on Kef Bir in the film by stating that, in addition to the Falcon having known problems with its landing gear, Rey had tried to repair its repulsorlift. There previously hadn't been any mention of a repulsorlift problem. The author knew that the landing gear issue alone would not explain its skid-landing in TRoS (I'm sure the author had seen Solo where the ship vertical-landed on Savareen without any landing gear).

The Death of Leia. p.172 – What was happening and why was handled vaguely in the film, but here we do get more info. Leia sacrificed her life to reach out to Kylo with feelings of life, love, hope, and forgiveness. Before that final act, Leia realized that letting go of her physical life wasn't giving up, but rather an act of faith in Rey and Ben. She thinks about her full name (in canon), Leia Skywalker Organa Solo, stating that her Skywalker legacy would go to Rey, her Organa legacy would go to Poe, and her Solo legacy would go to Ben (whatever). When she died, she felt "a surge of welcome from Luke, who was not alone…"

Chapter 14

Sith fleet logistics. p. 178 – The full novel explanation for why the Sith death star destroyers are sitting in the atmosphere the whole film is because they are doing a final construction inspection, testing, and maintenance. So the ships can be constructed underwater, but they need inspected in a dangerous atmosphere?

Final Order officers find the way. p.178-179 – Some FO officers come from the Sith cultists on Exegol, and others come from various Unknown Region worlds. But how did the UR officers all get to Exegol when the only two WayFinders in the galaxy were on Mustafar and Kef Bir until this movie?? How did one death star destroyer leave Exegol to go destroy Kijimi? The captain of it thinks about how she persevered by murdering three people and sabotaging two others to earn her promotion. She found a way!

Babu's battle droid. p.179-180 – Babu Frik was shown to be working on a battle droid when Zorii came to rescue him from being blown up on Kijimi. It was nothing more than a PT easter egg, but it was a missed opportunity to show that maybe Babu had gotten some residual battle droid programming out of Threepio that he needed to fix corrupt programming he had, and then show Threepio in the Falcon's other gunnery station in the final battle because Babu's meddling in Threepio's memory had somehow reactivated it. Die Sith dogs!

In my experience, there's no such thing as Lady Luck. p. 184 – The film doesn't address how Lando got from Pasaana to Ajan Kloss, but the book canonizes Lando's EU ship, Lady Luck, at least in name. But Lando was stuck on Pasaana, so how did he get this ship? What even prompted him to go to Ajan Kloss? Did he feel Leia's passing in the Force? He apparently had a child who was conscripted to become a FO stormtrooper, and since a lot of them have the Force, maybe Lando's kid and Lando do too.

Gesundheit. p.186 – Something I didn't notice watching the movie is, Why would Rey go to Ahch-To to hide? Unlike when Luke went there, the Resistance now knows about it and how to get there. Remember, JJ? The map to Skywalker? The McGuffin of TFA? Sure, the Resistance wouldn't immediately know she went there, but it is not like they wouldn't eventually try to look there. Rey should know that. I'm sure Finn or one of the many Force-sensitive FO stormtroopers would eventually feel where Rey went.

Anakin hates sand too! p.188 – Luke's ghost tells Rey they are "children of the desert." No "like my father before me" line.

Chapter 15

This doesn't bode well. p.191 – Exegol is an even more dangerous environment than shown in the film. Among the extreme atmospheric conditions are randomly existing gravity wells. I can forgive the big black-holish thing in Solo being called a "gravity well" but tiny randomly appearing space-time anomalies with gravity in a planet's atmosphere is really pushing it. It seems like the author was trying to slip something in to better justify for the film why the Sith fleet needed a navigation signal to go straight up, but in doing so it becomes even more silly, and the effects of these "random gravity wells" are not seen in the movie so what's the point? It's also possible that it was Abrams' idea and it got cut from the film.

Wedge's step-son. p.195 – So Resistance pilot Snap Wexley is Wedge's step-son. I only read the first half of Aftermath, but since Wedge and Snap were both in that book, I'm guessing Wedge hooked up with Snap's mom in that trilogy. This made me wonder for a second what the canon Wedge had been doing the past 31 years before his appearance in the Battle of Exegol, but it was only momentary and I went back to not caring.

The Millennium Tardis. p.196 – Over the years much has been made of the fact that the Falcon is impossibly larger on the inside than on the outside, and the franchise has had many different deck plans of the Falcon (I have most of them). The reboot to a new canon was their chance to set the record straight on the deck plans, but no. The TFA cross-sections book has an escape pod that is contradicted by TLJ, and then the Solo official guide book has the TLJ escape pod but in the same spot. Sure, that's just a minor little retcon. But the TRoS novelization states that Lando's old cape closet was made into Chewie's quarters/hold. Nope, there is just no room for that, not even close. And that is where the Class .05 hyperdrive was installed in the TFA book. In the YT-1300 Millennium Falcon Owner's Workshop Manual, which came out the same year the Solo film and guide, the cape closet was made into a secret hold and the faster hyperdrive is installed behind it. The Workshop Manual (and the TFA book) has Han and Chewie sharing quarters. Does the story group have any authority or do anything? The new canon is just EU2. The author just had to open that can of space slugs.

Red space. p.199 – The dangerous red cloud (just a red colored version of the space near Kessel in Solo) is called "red space". Because, you know, red means danger. Maybe "red space" made the author think of "red matter" in Abram's Star Trek ('09), and she got the idea for random gravity wells in Exegol's atmosphere. Or more than likely, it's an Abrams thing. Anyway, when Pryde journeys to Exegol (see below), after going through "red space" the ship enters "normal hyperspace" and an officer announces to Pryde that they are approaching the Unknown Regions. After a very brief hyperspace journey, they come out of hyperspace near Exegol. And here I thought Exegol was deep into the Unknown Regions and the red cloud was near Exegol, because you know, that would make more sense. Also, it is odd that the author contrasts red space with "normal" hyperspace. Red space is not an abnormal hyperspace. It is an area of normal space filled with red colored matter. Or is it a kind of hyperspace?

The modified FO flagship. p.199 – Allegiant General Pryde's ship, the Steadfast (which according to Wookieepedia became the First Order flagship in between TLJ and TRoS), is a modified Resurgent-class star destroyer. This is ship I have been referring to as "Kylo Ren's star destroyer" above in this thread because I couldn't keep straight from the film (and reading this novel) which ship is which, and I just figured it out while writing this. Anyway, any specific modifications are not mentioned here (see below). But it is noted Kylo Ren is not aware of them. Pryde's ship will become the flagship of the Sith/Final Order fleet. These SDs are bigger that the Sith death star destroyers, but this ship doesn't have a superlaser making it the least powerful ship in the fleet. But then again, I do not remember the Sith fleet using any superlasers in the Battle of Exegol, and if not then that power was wasted. (NOTE: I just read on Wookieepedia that Wayfinders need a Force-user to activate them, a detail I do not remember knowing. Kylo destroyed Palpatine's Wayfinder on the Death Star wreckage, and Rey had Vader's Wayfinder. Which means one of this flagship's modifications must be to travel to Exegol without a Wayfinder, a modification that the Sith destroyer that destroyed Kijimi must also have had. Maybe they had one of the many Force-sensitive stormtroopers activate the modification. But since the FO has special troopers for executions, they probably have dedicated "Waytroopers" that do it.)

Luke's X-Wing. p.200 – Rey somehow sneaks past the entire Sith Fleet without notice, and remembers a lot of work done on Ahch-To to get Luke's X-Wing flyable again. Luke's hut door was somehow reattached to the wings, and hull plating from the wreckage of Kylo's second interceptor was welded on to the old Rebel fighter. And there was a hefty amount of rewiring needed.

It's Anakin's lightsaber, d@mmit! p.201+ – By this page I really started nerd-raging about this entire book's continual reference to Anakin's lightsaber as "Luke's Lightsaber." The film and book fully acknowledge that it is not Rey's lightsaber because she constructed her own lightsaber by the end, something all Jedi must do as part of being a Jedi. Why can't they understand the same thing for Anakin's saber? That was Anakin's final Jedi lightsaber of the Clone Wars. It was kept by Obi-Wan until gave it to Luke, who used it and lost it on Bespin. Then Luke made his own lightsaber, the one he had in RotJ. That green lightsaber is the REAL "Luke's lightsaber." In the DT, that lightsaber is only visible in Force projections and flashbacks in TLJ and TRoS. But TRoS "reveals" that Leia has been a Jedi, and that Luke had kept her lightsaber on Ahch-To, which Luke's ghost gives to Rey. Why would Luke get rid of his own lightsaber but keep Leia's?

The Dark Side ravages clone bodies. p.202 – When Rey meets Palpatine, she observes that his spirit is "trapped in the artificial form, his power too devastating to contain."

Flight of Junior. p.203 – Aftab flew a Y-Wing in the Battle of Exegol. They couldn't give Ackbar's son a better ship? Wow. But they do give him an exclamation: "Great dark seas!" (Does Junior even survive the battle? I don't remember.)

That's a lot of captain's medallions! p.203 – The star destroyer that had left to destroy Kijimi (the Derriphan) returned to Exegol and joined the Sith Fleet as the highest ship. The ambitious Captain "Sabrond was under no delusion that captaining a star destroyer would be enough. There were thousands of captains. Tens of thousands." So how many death star destroyers are there? Hundreds, or tens of thousands?

Chapter 16

The super-secret master signal mod. p.207 – One of the Steadfast's modifications (that Kylo Ren never knew about) was revealed here to be the alternate master nav signal source for the Final Order fleet. This is the only modification revealed in the book. Good thing it could also travel to Exegol without a Wayfinder to do that when they needed it.

Kef Bir Calvary. p. 209 – They were two dozen former First Order stormtroopers (all likely Force-sensitive) riding on Orbaks and carrying homemade explosives they made back on the ocean moon of Endor. Whoa!

TIE Scout. p. 212 – I'm actually a bit impressed with how this criticism of the film was addressed in the novel. The Imperial TIE Fighter that Ben flew from Kef Bir to Exegol was said in the book to be a "scout-class TIE." There is no mention in this novelization of the hyperdrive that it must have, but in the EU there is an obscure TIE Series "scout ship" that only appeared in the Thrawn Trilogy, a recon vessel that was visually similar to the standard TIE/ln but it explicitly had a hyperdrive. Now there is nothing stating that ship even existed at the time of RotJ in the EU, but it is possible. I personally like the idea of a TIE with hyperdrive in the classic era but I don't think it should look the same as a standard TIE because it has a significant extra, a hyperdrive. This reminded me of WEG's Lone Scout-A.

Chapter 17

Attack of the Sith and the Ren. p.218 – When Ben goes into the Sith building, he is attacked by robed Sith cultists but he easily takes them out with a blaster. The Sith cultists don't add anything to the book, so I think they were likely cut from the film. And then Ben is attacked by the Knights of Ren, and Ben realizes they were really always loyal to Palpatine. If Snoke had only been a puppet and Palpatine was pulling his strings, why would Snoke make fun of the helmet provoking Kylo to destroy it in TLJ? If the Knights were always secretly loyal to Palpatine and only pretending to be loyal to Kylo, wouldn't Palpatine want the Knights to stay with Ren whom Palpatine was trying to manipulate? The book makes it even more clear that Palpatine was not always planned as pulling Snoke's strings.

Attack of the whiff. p.219 – Palpatine smelled like rotting meat. Nice.

Have you ever heard the tale of the cut backstory? p.219-220 – Rey has visions in the presence of Palpatine that fill in some of the backstory. In the film we didn't get anything, and it is near the end of the book… Darth Plagueis is the one who developed the secret of immortality that Palpatine used to return, transferring his essence to a clone right before his body's death. Palpatine stole the secret somehow, then killed Plagueis, but Plagueis didn't act fast enough to activate it so he just died, which would means that his spirit and those of "all the Sith" before him just transferred to Palpatine the usual way…

The Dark Emperor. p.220 – When Palpatine had been falling down the shaft to the reactor core of the Death Star and activated the transfer of his spirit to his clone body waiting on Exegol, his cultists had not completed the preparations for it and the consciousness transfer was imperfect. The Clone body wasn't enough. Maybe Plagueis' secret remained secret. (I guess Sith Masters don't inherit the memories of "all the Sith" so what do they get from it?) The Sith cultist created unsuitable genetic abominations, and one powerless clone that survived, which later became Rey's father. The novel had the opportunity to make Rey's father more important, which would had strengthened the drama of Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter, but the novel didn't bother telling us anything important about Rey's parents that wasn't in the film. Rey's parents weren't even named in the book.

I am all the Force powers! p.220 – The Sith-transfer-consciousness power, Luke's Force-projection power, Leia's connecting-with-Ben-remotely power, and Rey's poofing-the-lightsaber-to-Ben power were all manifestations of the same Force power. Um, uh…

It's raining death star destroyers. p. 226 – "Poe's patchwork navy pummeled the defenseless fleet… Soon destroyers were falling away all over the place." The novel further highlights Abram's kinky fetish for giant space debris crashing down on the planet, but somehow having no effect to those on the surface directly under the battle (Palpatine, the Sith cultists in all the cheap seats, Rey, and Ben). JJ, get a room! Hey, maybe that's what the randomly appearing gravity wells mentioned back in Chapter 15 are for, to appear above hundreds of Sith destroyers when they are falling, to slow them down.

Chapter 18

WWLD? p.229+ – Throughout the novel, Rey is continually thinking of Leia's teachings in context of being a Jedi. It really further destroys the fan argument that Leia wasn't a Jedi (the stance that this retcon does not contradict the premise of the prior two films, that Leia wasn't a Jedi).

And I… am… Iron Man (snap). p.231-232 – JJ may not like Age of Ultron, but he definitely liked Endgame. And I ask again. Once Rey start shooting the lighting back at him, why doesn't he stop killing himself? The book does clarify something vague in the film that was actually a very Avengers Infinity Gauntlet type of happening… The death of Palpatine instantly kills all Sith cult members on Exegol, thus everyone on the entire planet except Rey and Ben. But Rey dies soon and Ben gives his life to save hers, so really every single living being on the planet died as a result of Palpatine dying. But Resurrected Rey is still standing, with meteoric capital ships crashing down around her left and right. She truly is the Invincible Iron Rey!

Not all star destroyers are super special Sith death star destroyers. p.233 – Pryde's officer announces that "destroyers" are being attacked in "all occupied systems" by "overwhelming numbers of small craft." But these can't be Sith death star destroyers because they are literally all in the Exegol system (the single ship that had ever left had returned for the final battle). The other "destroyers" being attacked across the galaxy are regular FO star destroyers, they do not have the weakness that the Sith destroyers have (the superlaser).

A cause to die for? p.233-234 – Pryde realizes right before he dies that the Sith cause is not worth dying for. Hey, you made your bed, so you have to die in it. Contrast that with Finn and Jannah who express to each other right before they think they are going to die that destroying the Final Order flagship is worth dying for.

The Age of Palpatine. p.239 – Finn did think that with all the falling debris, Exegol was going to be a wasteland smoldering for years. But virtually all citizens of Exegol were either on the surface of the planet and died suddenly with Palpatine, or in the death star destroyers raining down on the planet, so there wasn't anyone left to live there anyway.

Endor Holocaust, really? p.240 – The author added to the Endor scene that debris from the Battle of Endor had rained down on the Forest Moon for a decade, but "the moon fought back with lush verdancy." With Wicket and his young son being there, it hadn't been a total genocide for the Ewoks, but this tapping into the "Endor Holocaust" fan theory served no purpose. I can't imagine how conveying this info ever would have been worked in the film, so was this just something JJ demanded the author put in to further his non-devastating space debris fetish? Or maybe the author is just going with an obvious Abrams motif from his SW films?

The Prophecy of the Golden God? p.240 – As Wicket and his son watch the Holdo Maneuver in their sky, they are standing in the exact same spot he saw the Death Star be destroyed 31 years earlier. Being a novel. some alien languages that go without subtitles in the film, like Ewokese, do get translated to English here. Wicket believed and told his son that it was Threepio who destroyed the bad ship, and… that's it. (The novel established that Threepio was back on the Resistance base during the battle). Wicket also told him there would be a big feast and fireworks that night. From the film, the ship was a lot closer to the Forest Moon than the Death Star had been, so the fireworks Wicket mentioned in the book are probably going to be a capital ship debris. The Ewoks will be fine though.

Chapter 19

There he was. p.241 – I didn't see in the film how BB-8 survived the final battle, but at some point he left Finn and Jannah to go back to the lander. He returned in the lander with Rose.

Episode X. p.242 – Back at base after the battle, Finn points out to Poe that Leia thought they'd destroyed Palpatine at the Battle of Endor but he came back stronger than ever. Finn asked Poe if he thought Palpatine might come back again. Poe said, "Maybe. Or some other evil will rise. Evil always rises." Finn replied, "Naw. Not for a long time, anyway." This dramatically weakens the story of this episode, which is marketed as the conclusion of the "Skywalker Saga." I can't imagine Lucasfilm or the author has any agenda to set up further Rey movies in this film, so I can only guess this was from Abrams just trying to boost this film's reception by it hopefully being seen as a gateway to more films. They already weakened the drama by bringing Palpatine back to life, so the best possible dramatic outcome of the story is to make his defeat very final, this time. The film already left openings for Palpatine returning in the future, and reading this part in the book just gives me a bad feeling about this. Let it die.

Leia's Legacy. p.242 – Poe said that Leia united the whole galaxy. How? By her death? That wasn't really established in the film or in the book. This statement feels fake, just trying to make something seem true by having a character say it.

Lando contemplates the future. p.242-243 – Lando thinks that the New New Republic is for the next generation to deal with because he has to get back to Passana soon. Then Jannah asked him where he was from and he asked her. When she said she didn't know, Lando realized that he can't go home because it is his mission in life to help former First Order stormtroopers find their homes, and maybe he might find his daughter doing that. The novel still never explained why he was on Pasaana and didn't want to leave! I'm sure that bit was from Abrams and the author just didn't want to touch that one.

Bloodlines. p.244 – Rey thinks, "Maybe the good people of the Resistance didn't care about nonsense like bloodlines and family history." Abrams obviously cared about Rey's bloodline. Maybe the good people of the fandom did care about story arcs and cohesive trilogy.

What Finn was trying to tell Rey. p.244 – Finn said to Rey, "I've been meaning to tell you–" She interjects, "I know." Then Poe adds, "We all know." So that's what Abrams cut, something still not explicit about Finn's Force-sensitivity. I guess it was cut because it only brings up more questions. So how does Poe know? Is he Force-sensitive too? Does Broom Kid know?

Rey thinks about the galaxy. p.244 – Rey thinks there is "a galaxy to get up and running." I guess if she is leader of the next generation of Jedi, she will be involved in that process.

The generations of Skywalkers? p.245 – When Rey first went to the Lars Homestead on Tatooine, the books states, "Two generations of Skywalkers had visited this place." OK, let's look at the generations of Skywalkers. Shmi Skywalker lived at this place, not visited. Anakin Skywalker visited this place. Luke Skywalker lived at this place, not visited. There's three generations of Skywalkers and only one visited this place. And she couldn't be counting herself yet because she hadn't yet decided she was a Skywalker at this point. The only other known generation of Skywalker is Ben Solo. He presumably had visited Endor to recover Vader's helmet, but there are absolutely no hints in the films or this book that he had ever been to Tatooine. So only one Skywalker generation visited the place, and if the author meant lived or visited, then that would be three generations. Not two. Who is the author even counting?

Scavenger notes. p.245 – Rey toured everywhere accessible in the Lars homestead and noticed that the levers and paneling of their kitchen had been scavenged. The author doesn't address why the most valuable thing on a desert planet, the moisture vaporators, are all still there. Jawas or Tuskens would have taken those things as soon as they realized they weren't protected by anyone anymore. But of course that is an issue of the film – The obvious real world reason is the vaporators were there for audience recognition/nostalgia. But it is still odd that the novelization author would bring up how other minor little things were scavenged when that only raises the question of why the vaporators weren't scavenged 35 years earlier.

Rey's Jedi teachers. p.246 – Rey considered Luke and Leia to equally be her Jedi teachers. And her family. And she still thinks Anakin's lightsaber is Luke's!

I am a Skywalker, like my Skywalker before me. p.247 – When the old lady asked Rey for her last name, Luke's ghost nodded at her and said, "It's yours, Rey" before she said, "Rey Skywalker." Oddly, the book doesn't quite end the dialogue there like in the film. The old lady replied, "Ah. See you around?" and then hobbles off without waiting for Rey to answer or sharing her own name. And then the novelization revealed that she and BB-8 were returning to her Resistance friends, so the only reason she went there was to bury the lightsabers of Anakin and Leia.


It is finished.

The TROS novelization does answer a lot of questions from watching he movie, and has some extra stuff. The novel does help the film in some ways, but the novel leaves a lot of problems unaddressed. It make some issues of the film even worse and adds its own new issues to the story. The fundamental flaws of the film are not resolved by the book, but there is only so much a novelization could do. I cannot recommend anyone spend their time reading the book unless you really loved the movie.

With this post, I am done providing new TRoS content here. If I am asked any questions I will be happy try to answer them. I may reply to other's posts about the film, but as I have already said mostly all I'll ever have to say about the film, any significant replies will likely involve me finding something I've already posted and just quoting myself. Now the healing can begin.

Thank you.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Thank you for choosing the difficult path, so that others wouldn't have to.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-rey-parentage-changed-kenobi

Daisy Ridley admitted that her lineage kept changing throughout the making of the trilogy. Being Kenobi's granddaughter was on the table at some point. In TLJ she actually was intended to be no one. Then when Abram's first pitched TRoS to her, he said she's a Palpatine. Then a couple week later, he told her maybe not. When filming started, she still wasn't even sure what Rey's background would be.

This further proves that Kennedy and Abrams lied about Palpatine always being planned to conclude the "trilogy" (Ian McDiarmid also said Palpatine wasn't planned until after Abrams took over Episode IX). There was no trilogy plan.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

This further proves that Kennedy and Abrams lied about Palpatine always being planned to conclude the "trilogy" (Ian McDiarmid also said Palpatine wasn't planned until after Abrams took over Episode IX). There was no trilogy plan.


*screams in author*
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