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The Mandalorian [Spoilers Allowed]
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that he is not a bad director (Knives Out was quite good).

I disagree that S2 was worse than S1; in my view it was as good if not even sometimes a little better. I think The Mandalorian continues to fire on all cylinders.

But I don't think there's really any concern that he will do anything along the lines of his typical "subvert expectations" role like he did with TLJ. The showrunners have a lot of influence on this show, and it's not like he's been given a film to do what he wants to.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. Part of the issue with with each DT film was maximum director creative control. That was necessary because everyone was saying no to directing them. This show doesn't have that problem.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Right. Part of the issue with with each DT film was maximum director creative control. That was necessary because everyone was saying no to directing them.


Good gawds, was that the reason the Sequel Trilogy turned out to be a chain-mail-writing dominoes disaster that could have had its narrative choppiness averted with a simple outline? Because no one wanted to direct them?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Whill wrote:
Right. Part of the issue with with each DT film was maximum director creative control. That was necessary because everyone was saying no to directing them.

Good gawds, was that the reason the Sequel Trilogy turned out to be a chain-mail-writing dominoes disaster that could have had its narrative choppiness averted with a simple outline? Because no one wanted to direct them?

Yes. In short...

They tried to get one person to do the whole trilogy, and they got no takers. They started offering them out piecemeal, and they were still not getting any takers. Even Abrams said no the first time. When they came back around to Abrams and he finally said yes to the first one, they tried again to get him to do more than one and he said absolutely not. So they had to offer max creative control over each director's film just to even get three directors. Johnson asked Abrams to make several changes to TFA to better line it up to TLJ, and Abrams said he complied with some but refused others. I truly think that Johnson only had a "do not kill" character list he had to comply with. (Luke, Ackbar, Snoke, and Phasma were obviously not on this list.) Then after Carrie Fisher died they fired the third director because Kennedy didn't like his solution in his screenplay, and she roped Abrams back into the third film after not planning on concluding the trilogy he started, scrapping the original third director's plan and contradicting both prior films (even his own first story in the chain). See this thread for more information.

The Mandalorian has overarching management and a season plan directors have to be on board with. It is really nothing like the DT except that it is supposedly set in the same post-RotJ timeline. Rian Johnson will probably be fine. But I admit I did gain a new appreciation for him after seeing TRoS and re-watching the trio.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have said yes but nobody asked me.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all seriousness though Rian Johnson directed the best sequel so it's fine by me. His other works are good. He's a director, not the all-being top down creator. He'll direct the actors.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/star-wars-the-mandalorian-dave-filoni-lucasfilm-creative-director-1234978130/

According to Variety (which tends to be reliable), the Rangers of the New Republic show has been shelved, meaning it may not have been officially cancelled, but it is no longer in development.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:17 am    Post subject: The Ultimate Visual Guide - CANCELLED Reply with quote




The Mandalorian: The Ultimate Visual Guide was cancelled for an unstated reason. I was going to buy it so I'm disappointed.
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thinking is that both the Rangers of the New Republic being shelved and the visual guide being cancelled
are both to do with the 'firing' of Gina Carano (Cara Dune)

The show was apparently supposed to have her in it as one of the main characters and I guess that the visual
guide was done away with as Cara Dune wasn't allowed to feature in it.

The visual guide thing especially sucks though, I love those things Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too. Even for the movies I didn't care for.

Maybe that is the case for the Rangers show, but I very much doubt that the Visual Guide cancellation has anything to do with Disney's decision to not hire the Cara Dune actor for future Disney productions. When actors sign contracts for Star Wars, they sign to Lucasfilm having full rights to the characters and to use the actor likeness for toys, books, etc. Lucas himself started that practice in the 70s. Cara Dune was allowed to be featured in the visual guide as Lucasfilm still owns the character of Cara Dune. The character still appears in the Mandalorian s1 and s2, and they are not taking those off Disney+ or editing her out of them. There is still a TM behind-the-scenes book about the production of The Mandalorian s1, and the Cara Dune character and actor are visible in that.

The significant difference between the visual guide and the BTS book is that the visual guide was a reference book for in-universe info, while the BTS book has a real-world focus. My guess that is has more to do with not wanting to pin writers of future Mandalorian seasons and the spin-off shows down with continuity restrictions. It follows the MO of this Disney SW story group which has been very fluff-light compared to the prior franchise. It was the whole reason they flushed the EU, which by their own admission was to maximize new author creativity. It's funny and sad because that still didn't stop Abrams from contradicting the prior film episodes.

The only reason I didn't mention the BTS book in my prior post was because there really wasn't anything stopping them from putting out both books.
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Me too. Even for the movies I didn't care for.


Yeah, there are some great stuff in the Solo guide and the various art books for the Disney movies,
and I have no interest in any of those films.

Whill wrote:
Maybe that is the case for the Rangers show, but I very much doubt that the Visual Guide cancellation has anything to do with Disney's decision to not hire the Cara Dune actor for future Disney productions. When actors sign contracts for Star Wars, they sign to Lucasfilm having full rights to the characters and to use the actor likeness for toys, books, etc. Lucas himself started that practice in the 70s. Cara Dune was allowed to be featured in the visual guide as Lucasfilm still owns the character of Cara Dune. The character still appears in the Mandalorian s1 and s2, and they are not taking those off Disney+ or editing her out of them. There is still a TM behind-the-scenes book about the production of The Mandalorian s1, and the Cara Dune character and actor are visible in that.

The significant difference between the visual guide and the BTS book is that the visual guide was a reference book for in-universe info, while the BTS book has a real-world focus. My guess that is has more to do with not wanting to pin writers of future Mandalorian seasons and the spin-off shows down with continuity restrictions. It follows the MO of this Disney SW story group which has been very fluff-light compared to the prior franchise. It was the whole reason they flushed the EU, which by their own admission was to maximize new author creativity. It's funny and sad because that still didn't stop Abrams from contradicting the prior film episodes.

The only reason I didn't mention the BTS book in my prior post was because there really wasn't anything stopping them from putting out both books.


Normally I'd be in agreement with much of that. However, they removed Cara Dune from artwork,
replacing her on a finished piece of work by making the artist paint over her with Ahsoka. They took
her action figures off shelves and cancelled continued production at a number of toy producers, even
though they were one of the most popular figures on sale, which is why they are going for stupid prices
on Ebay. This is why I think that character is the reason they cancelled the visual guide, they couldn't
put it out without her being in it and they are trying their best to be rid of the character completely.

I think a behind the scenes type thing is different as it is real world images and it would be weird to take
out the actress from those images. Also, I believe season 1 and 2 of the Mandalorian had finshed filming
before all the stuff happened with her, so that and contract stuff is why she's still in the series. I would bet
they would remove her if they could. They replaced an actor with another person in that Snyder zombie
movie after the film was finished by editing in the new one via green screen... so it's not like they won't
do that in Hollywood if they can.

I don't see why, if they wanted to, they couldn't put out both books either...which is why I think there is
likely more behind its cancellation.

Just my reading of things though.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if it's completely accurate, but Screen Rant just reported that Cara Dune will be appearing in new Lego toys even after the firing.
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DougRed4 wrote:
Not sure if it's completely accurate, but Screen Rant just reported that Cara Dune will be appearing in new Lego toys even after the firing.


Yep, there are still a few toy ranges out there that include Cara Dune, Lego is one of them. I think there are certain series of action figures
that still have some Cara Dunes (one of the Black series types I think) my guess is it's specific contracts at play there. But POP and the
normal sized star wars figures of her have been discontinued, though if you are lucky you can still find some of those figures out there
on shelves and also in those boxed figure collection sets if you really want one.

They have definitely tried to make her go away as much as possible though.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xain Arke wrote:
However, they removed Cara Dune from artwork,
replacing her on a finished piece of work by making the artist paint over her with Ahsoka.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/EpunktRVgAAdKrY.jpeg

I hadn't heard about the artwork so went and found it. The official story is that she was replaced by Ahsoka due to her popularity and to better promote her upcoming spin-off. Seeing as on the villain side it has the spear-lady that only appeared in the Ahsoka episode, it makes more sense to have Ahsoka in the image. Cara Dune being removed from the image only because the actor not being in future Star Wars productions is only fan speculation. I think that is possible, but it is also possible that when deciding on someone to replace to insert Ahsoka, Cara Dune was the no-brainer. For the art to be more forward looking on the supporting hero side, Ahsoka is getting her own show while Cara Dune will not appear in any of them.

Quote:
They took her action figures off shelves and cancelled continued production at a number of toy producers

That is only half true. It is true that Hasbro decided to stop producing some Cara Dune figures, but they were not forced to because they have a license to do so. Disney did not take her action figures off the shelves of any retailers except for maybe the Disney stores. If any independent retailers took unsold toys off the shelves, that was their own decision (and I doubt that happened because they probably could not be returned for a refund based on how I always see toys on clearance). Retailers were allowed to continue selling what was already in stores and in the distribution network, and did...

Quote:
...even though they were one of the most popular figures on sale

Cara Dune may have been one of the most popular Mandalorian figures before the announcement of her actor's non-return to the franchise, but her existing action figures flew off the shelves after the announcement of her non-return because of the announcement, mainly bought by the SW fans that supported her social media statements...

Quote:
...which is why they are going for stupid prices on Ebay.

That was because of the entrepreneurs who saw the spike in demand and jumped on toys they could get a hold of, knowing that when the store shelves and Amazon went dry, people would then look to eBay. Let people compete with bidding to buy the toys.

Quote:
I would bet
they would remove her if they could. They replaced an actor with another person in that Snyder zombie
movie after the film was finished by editing in the new one via green screen... so it's not like they won't
do that in Hollywood if they can.

The Army of the Dead situation was a choice to replace an actor before the movie was ever released. Retroactively removing Cara Dune from the the first two seasons of The Mandalorian would be a totally different situation. It would only bring more attention to the non-continuance of the actor, and that level of retroactive fussing over it would reek of Star Wars "Special Editions." No one wants that. I personally find some of the actor's real world statements to be disgusting but I have nothing against her character or her appearance as-is in the first two seasons of the series. I truly feel Lucasfilm realizes a lot of the fans feel this way. There is a huge difference from deciding to not focus on the character going forward and severe meddling with the past. They could if they wanted to, but I sincerely doubt they will.

It would be much easier to edit the visual guide and minimize Cara Dune in it, if they still really wanted to release it. And the in-universe reference would only have the Cara Dune character which everyone likes, while the BTS book they did release has the real world actor in it. That is more of a reminder of the reasons of her non-continuance with the franchise than the in-universe reference book would be.

Quote:
This is why I think that character is the reason they cancelled the visual guide, they couldn't put it out without her being in it

They can put her it in it, they can remove her, and they can do whatever they want, but that became a non-issue with the book's cancellation. It's not like we don't have a story group modus operandi that has been in operation for several years now. As someone who has a lot of reference works from both franchises, I can tell you there has been a stark reduction of in-universe non-story fluff in the current franchise in two ways: the reduction of fluff in works and the reduction of works with fluff. This is a thing.

The success of the Mandalorian s2 is resulting in three things, a third season of Mandalorian and two spin-off shows all set concurrently to each other. It is an unprecedented situation in the history of the mega-franchise. It is going to be easier than ever for them to contradict each other and existing lore. It's a coward's way out, but based on the story group's track record, it makes sense that they would fear the continuity restrictions they might cause. Keep in mind that the cancelled Mandalorian visual guide's author is a leading member of the story group.

You'll notice in my original announcement of the visual guide's cancellation I specifically didn't speculate as to the reason. I've now talked about the Cara Dune actor far more than I even wanted to here. She won't get her own show or be in The Mandalorian season 3. I think if any of us have issues with that, we just need to get over it and move on.


UPDATE: https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=207688#207688
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious: Mayfeld's action in ep. 15 regarding the Imperial officer was a kind of redemption, setting the things right with his past? Or did he deserve a DSP?
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