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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | The way I see it, if you want to fight a Jedi, ask HK-47 about the best methods for fighting them.
See here. |
Atton Rand also had some good advice.
But, I edited a post above. Amazing how one missed word can change a sentence, huh?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | Firearms are not Jedi killers, and honestly even if they were I'd headcanon that away or house rule a replacement for it because of my personal burning hatred of slugthrower weapons somehow being 'better' than sci-fi rayguns.
'Cause honestly, screw that noise. Star Wars has always been classical whiz-bang space opera with rayguns. If you want to throw in the vague harder and grittier science fiction slugthrowers as being the superior option, this isn't the setting for you. |
I'm of this mind as well. Why have bullets when Star Wars has guns that shoot bright hyphens of energy? Blasters are just way cooler. In my 32 years of playing this game, slugthrowers have maybe appeared a couple times.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Scots Dragon wrote: | Firearms are not Jedi killers, and honestly even if they were I'd headcanon that away or house rule a replacement for it because of my personal burning hatred of slugthrower weapons somehow being 'better' than sci-fi rayguns.
'Cause honestly, screw that noise. Star Wars has always been classical whiz-bang space opera with rayguns. If you want to throw in the vague harder and grittier science fiction slugthrowers as being the superior option, this isn't the setting for you. |
I'm of this mind as well. Why have bullets when Star Wars has guns that shoot bright hyphens of energy? Blasters are just way cooler. In my 32 years of playing this game, slugthrowers have maybe appeared a couple times. |
Maybe because sluthrowers was part of star wars from the beginning.
If and I would say if, the slugthrower was in any way inferior, then why would this be the chose of assassins and other warriors.
The tusken raiders used a slugthrower to target luke in his speeder. In the prequals Zam Wessel used a slughtrower, a dart gun no less....and this was at leasted hinted was due to "less dection and more effective among other vs jedi"
(we also know that the tusken had blasters, the technology existed, and was available and used by them throughout the old legends, making the chosie of using the "better weapoin for the task" seem more than the "lack of tech"
A non detectable blaster would be a kin the Nightstinger sniper rifle, fireing invisble (and thus unblockable) bolts.
Now I would still argue you see a regular bolt and thus can deflect it, and all though you may be able to predict an attack, you do not see the projectile and can thus regardelss of knoing when the attack comes will not make the projectile visible.
(I am of the mind that Blasterbolts are extremely slow compared to a bullet, I would compare it to "bullet vs crossbow bolt"
with blaster bolts being slightly faster than a crossbow, though at significantly greather range, but more or less equally "slow".
A bullet IMO, will do signifcantly less Ddamage against some matrials, this due the heat and such from the bolts but has the advantage of being significantly harder to black/defelct.
We see how "slow" the bolt really is in TLJ, where POE shoots at Kylo, Kylo freezes the bolt mid air about 1/2 secons after it was fired, it travelled about 10 meters..........to me significantly slower than any bullet, even most if not all crossbows and arrows and even sligs. |
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Savar
Captain
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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From the Thrawn trilogy the cuts are microscopic.
So 50cal ?
How about hypervelocity rounds? (Verpine shattergun)
Machinegun fire. From a Gatlin firing rate?
I can see the lightsaber intercepting any of the rounds but at different difficulties.
But the size of the round matters also, because at a certain point it will not get vaporized.
With enough people, see order 66, if you generate enough angles of attack you can overwhelm the jedi also.
Rounds coated with the fibers that take out lightsabers was one I have seen used. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I don't recall which edition it was, but I know at least one made the argument "You can silence a bullet, you can't silence a blaster".
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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To me the blaster bolt is to be compared with a crossbow bolt on earth, and a bullet is the same in both worlds.
Why the slower blaster is used above slugthrowers, I suspect has to with space combat more than man to man ground combat, where due to the physics of space a blaster type ammounition is maybe more effective.
bullets in space really don't do that much......this is looking away from the visuals to be able to see the "rays" or the shots, we generally do not see the bullets in action movies, some are even dodgable, but that would imo be the limit.
I can not see how a jedi can see a type 10mm (10mmx 16mm projectile size, not including the shell length) react and block this.
I can see how a jedi can see and react to a larger and slower projectile, that if we take into the distance of the tlj scene, we see the rough traveled distance being aboit 10meters and in about 1/2 second, this is only about 10x the max running speed of a person, and about 10X slower than the average bullet of .22cal and up |
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Mamatried
Commodore
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I don't recall which edition it was, but I know at least one made the argument "You can silence a bullet, you can't silence a blaster". |
I heard this too, yet we don't hear much noise at all from the blasters compared to a unslienced firearm LOL |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | Maybe because sluthrowers was part of star wars from the beginning...The tusken raiders used a slugthrower to target luke in his speeder. |
You mean used the gun's scope? The weapon wasn't actually fired at Luke or his speeder. I'm certainly no expert in the visual analysis of fictional weapons, but the Star Wars Sourcebook said that Sand People weapons of choice are gaffi sticks and blaster rifles. I didn't know that Sand People even used slugthrowers until they shot at Anakin in the pod race of a 1999 film. 22 years later isn't really still "the beginning" of Star Wars.
| Mamatried wrote: | | In the prequals Zam Wessel used a slughtrower, a dart gun no less. |
I presume you are referring to the gun she used to shoot the droid Obi-Wan was holding on to. You don't hear the echoy metal ping when her shot hits the droid like the sound effect used when the Sand People shot at the pods. Visually there are a bunch of sparks that fly off, but those are typical blaster effects. I just watched it at .25 speed. There is definitely a short blaster bolt in both the shot of her firing it and the shot of the droid being hit. It is definitely a blaster weapon. The hand gun that her and Anakin wrestled over in her speeder was definitely a blaster weapon. She used an explosive for Padme's ship and little bug creatures in Padme's apartment. There's no film evidence Zam used slugthrowers. And by the way, it wasn't Zam that used a dart gun. Jango Fett used an armor dart launcher to kill her.
| Mamatried wrote: | | In the prequals Zam Wessel used a slughtrower, a dart gun no less....and this was at leasted hinted was due to "less dection and more effective among other vs jedi" |
I don't think that is hinted anywhere in the films. In TPM it hints at the Tusken Raiders being more primitive compared to the non-native inhabitants of Tatooine. It could be that sometime in between TPM and ANH, they finally realized that blasters are superior so started using them if they got a hold of any. Zam never used a slugthrower. Jango Fett could have launched that dart into either of the Jedi who had their backs to him, but he shot the non-Jedi. So I don't see that there is any evidence that darts are more effective vs. Jedi.
| Mamatried wrote: | | If and I would say if, the slugthrower was in any way inferior, then why would this be the chose of assassins and other warriors. |
In my SWU, slugthrowers are not the weapon of choice of too many assassins and warriors. But it is a big galaxy. I never said they don't exist. They were in the SW Sourcebook and 12 years later they appeared in TPM. I don't see slugthrowers being too common in the civilized galaxy, and blasters are more cool.
| Mamatried wrote: | | We see how "slow" the bolt really is in TLJ, where POE shoots at Kylo, Kylo freezes the bolt mid air about 1/2 secons after it was fired, it travelled about 10 meters..........to me significantly slower than any bullet, even most if not all crossbows and arrows and even sligs. |
You mean TFA, not TLJ. The Disney Trio present a comic book/video game type of SW reality that doesn't jive with the other 8 films. I agree that blaster bolts are slower than projectiles, but citing TFA doesn't really support statements of 'Star Wars reality'.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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It's a mistake to assume blaster visual speeds are scientifically accurate, as they are shown to vary greatly. In RotJ, for example, an MC80 can be trading shots with an ISD in the background of one of the fleet battle scenes (look just to the right of Ackbar's head here, and the turbolaser blasts are moving far faster than "normal" blaster bolts. Consider also the apparent velocity of personal blaster weapons during first battle of Geonosis.
Now, as to things like shotguns, I did an estimate as part of my own house rules for lightsaber parrying, and settled on a +3D to the Difficulty of the Parry. This is based on modern 12-ga. Buckshot Shotgun Shells containing 9 00-pellets each, all of which would need to be parried at effectively the same moment.
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