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Prestige Classes
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Mamatried wrote:

talent for marksmanship: Does not give any pip or Dice to skill, but lessesn the difficulty for ranges.

things like that?


Or something that eliminates 1 MAP without increasing skill otherwise. Or reduces travel time in astrogation.

Frankly, neither of these seem worth it. You'd get the same effect just by improving your skill by 1D.

When I did my write-up for Marksman as an (A) Skill, I made it for extremely long range shots (Extreme Range), using the (A) Marksman Skill dice roll to generate exactly how far beyond Long Range the character could shoot.

IMO, Talents/Feats should be a Plan B, for use if you can't come up with an Advanced Skill that does what you need it to. Advanced Skills are woefully underutilized in this system anyway.

I've long considering modding the Martial Arts skill from Rules of Engagement into an Advanced Skill, so that the single Martial Art skill (with Martial Arts essentially being a placeholder that you can replace with the specific name of your chosen martial art) can have both Brawling and Melee as prerequisites, with the special abilities from the RoE rules being earned for every 1D of increase in the Advanced Skill, rather than the preequisites.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I just do not see any reason to try to square-peg foreign system mechanics into Star Wars D6 like classes/careers, feats/talents, etc.

Seconded, especially when other official options haven't been ruled out yet. Prestige Classes only work for an "actual rules" system like the rigid character classes of D20. Character Templates in D6 are "more what you might call guidelines than actual rules." Under D20, characters who want to improve skills and abilities not included in their character class pretty much have to multi-class; in D6, characters can spend their CP on pretty much anything they want. There's no point to having a Prestige Class unless it allows the character to do something outside of the normal skills, and the RAW already has the Advanced Skill system for that.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One possible source for this would be the FFG Talent Trees. Mojomoe suggested something along those lines a while back, but he's gone lurker, and AFAIK, he's never followed up on this.

I don't know the FFG system all that well, but there are some hints of interesting special skills and abilities for non-FS characters. For example, the first Career Path on the Age of Rebellion Talent Tree List is Ace, which starts with two Base Abilities: "This One Is Mine" (which allows the user to force a one-on-one dogfight with a single opponent) and "Unmatched Survivability" (which allows the craft the pilot is operating to temporarily ignore damage). Both rules can be upgraded by paying a Cost in points (presumably the FFG equivalent of CP), which increases the duration and/or potency of the rule in question.

What I'm picturing is converting these to Advanced Skills, so that, for instance, a Brash Pilot character could purchase dice in (A) This One Is Mine, which allows him to force an enemy craft into a one-on-one duel for a specific number of rounds (which increases based on how well he rolled), or to engage larger or smaller scale craft (increases the Base Difficulty of the skill roll).

Or these could all be rolled into a single (A) Ace Advanced Skill, allowing the character to use both under a single skill.

As I said, I don't know the FFG system that well, so anyone with greater familiarity, feel free to poke holes in the concept. I just felt like throwing it out there.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Heresy detected. Purge the heretic.

LOL. Yes, I see no reason whatsoever to add any aspect of classes/levels/feats/hit points, etc. to D6. The D6 system was pointedly designed to avoid all that.


I would like to see something on the nature of feats... special, learnable, abilities that are not reliant upon the Force. There's some limited amount from martial arts maneuvers and such, but something to help differentiate one person with 5D blaster from another person with 5D blaster would be nice.


I did a bunch of talents and techniques for my mandalorian game.

More ways to differentiate a group of players all playing the same archetype with roughly the same skillsets.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5894&highlight=
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
I did a bunch of talents and techniques for my mandalorian game.

More ways to differentiate a group of players all playing the same archetype with roughly the same skillsets.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5894&highlight=

There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but it's an awfully long post. Have you considered breaking it up into individual posts by skill sub-sets?

Frankly, the write-up seems too D20ish. Using DC numbers rather than Difficulty Levels, for one thing. Also, some of these Talents would seem to be little different than normal skill use, or seem to provide no concrete game advantage at all. The Pistol Twirl, for example, sounds cool (and is certainly appropriate in a cinematic setting), but needs something more, like a +1D to Intimidation or something of that sort.

I could go through the post line-by-line to make suggestions, but I don't want to lock it in in case you would like to edit it. Both I and others have started separate feedback pages for topics so as to keep the posted rules post clear and uncluttered for ease of use. That might prove useful there.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
I did a bunch of talents and techniques for my mandalorian game.

More ways to differentiate a group of players all playing the same archetype with roughly the same skillsets.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5894&highlight=

There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but it's an awfully long post. Have you considered breaking it up into individual posts by skill sub-sets?

Frankly, the write-up seems too D20ish. Using DC numbers rather than Difficulty Levels, for one thing. Also, some of these Talents would seem to be little different than normal skill use, or seem to provide no concrete game advantage at all. The Pistol Twirl, for example, sounds cool (and is certainly appropriate in a cinematic setting), but needs something more, like a +1D to Intimidation or something of that sort.

I could go through the post line-by-line to make suggestions, but I don't want to lock it in in case you would like to edit it. Both I and others have started separate feedback pages for topics so as to keep the posted rules post clear and uncluttered for ease of use. That might prove useful there.


That was one of my first posts to the pit. Yeah, it's very D20ish. My game is a high level of heresy. My players just came off an extended D&D campaign that I was running...so DC is/was intuitive/ habit.

It was a cut and paste post from my own doc, so not a lot was done to try to make it fit back into RAW.

I may do that; create a more user-friendly series of posts for more effective sharing. If i ever get the time.

The pistol twirl, since you mentioned it...it isn't expressly stated, but the only advantage is letting you use the Blaster pistol skill as a substitute for a regular intimidation skill roll.

ie...a quiet, unassuming guy might not have a high intimidation score...until he brings out the blaster and shows his talent.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
That was one of my first posts to the pit. Yeah, it's very D20ish. My game is a high level of heresy. My players just came off an extended D&D campaign that I was running...so DC is/was intuitive/ habit.

It was a cut and paste post from my own doc, so not a lot was done to try to make it fit back into RAW.

I may do that; create a more user-friendly series of posts for more effective sharing. If i ever get the time.

That's fair. Let me know if you decide to start a feedback page; I'd like to go through that list line by line and give my thoughts.

Quote:
The pistol twirl, since you mentioned it...it isn't expressly stated, but the only advantage is letting you use the Blaster pistol skill as a substitute for a regular intimidation skill roll.

ie...a quiet, unassuming guy might not have a high intimidation score...until he brings out the blaster and shows his talent.

That makes for a good rule, but without it actually being written down...
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iread we are into advanced skills and talents, which is very good .

My main reason for a prestige type class is simply to distinguish player A who is a diplomat with no military training, but is good "paper target" shooter with his 4D blaster.

I have problems reasoning this player to be as good a shot in actual combat as a military trained shooter alos with his 4D blaster.
to me they are simply not comparable, however the rules do not distinguish these which I find to be a weakness in the system.

I would say that a military trained shooter would maybe have a CQB ability, where he can use his blaster skill, and perfom different tasks in shooting than a non military character.

I was imagining CQB as the player can remove upto 1D to his over all skill and replace this with a bonus to ONLY his close/medium range.

so the 4D blaster when using CQB becomes 3D, but on close or medium this couts as a speciality and he then ADDS the 1D to a 5D on those ranges.
if he without chaning his "technique" if you will, or take time to aim he will shoot on long range with "only" 3D.


Same would apply to a military trained pilot, as theu are given a flight training far different than the commersial pilot, this bing dogfights and the like.
and becuse specialities comes normally as addtions to the character creation I see no purpose for anything military, and to me this remvoes a big part of the WARS in Star Wars
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
My main reason for a prestige type class is simply to distinguish player A who is a diplomat with no military training, but is good "paper target" shooter with his 4D blaster.

There's no real structure for that anywhere in the RAW, and it should be more predicated on a mental or emotional aspect of overcoming the hesitation of firing at a living target, or more particularly, a sentient target.

Quote:
I would say that a military trained shooter would maybe have a CQB ability, where he can use his blaster skill, and perfom different tasks in shooting than a non military character.

If you're looking for a way for a character to specialize in CQB, again, an Advanced Skill would be the best way to do this under the RAW. I somewhat factored it into my Blaster Stat re-write by giving pistols and carbines (with the stock folded) a +1D bonus at Point-Blank Range, but you would need to get into the details of how CQB training would mesh with the RAW, and what sorts of advantages or special abilities such an Advanced Skill would cover.

Quote:
Same would apply to a military trained pilot, as theu are given a flight training far different than the commersial pilot, this bing dogfights and the like.

No, they aren't. In fact, many commercial pilots are ex-military. The difference you're looking for is between transport pilots and fighter pilots. The latter will be trained in ACM and the like, while the former will not. Transport pilots will likely still have some training in evasion (they fly into combat zones, after all).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're interested in looking at another take on this concept for reference, they Star Wars RPG.Net Online Journal took a crack at prestige classes back in the early 2000's. Granted, it was more focused on how to convert them from d20 to D6, but it might be worth a look.

https://rpggamer.org/online_journal/OnlineJournal_Issue3.pdf
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was working on my "Master D6" Rules, I came up with a system that allowed for a person to either get a "Focus" skill (akin to a specialty in normal D6 Star Wars) or a regular skill.

Once their "Focus" skill reached a certain level (+2D) they had the option of spending 20 Character Points on their next opportunity to raise the Focus and instead taking an "Expertise" in that skill.

An example would be First Aide.

The skill (in my Master D6) is Healing. The "focus" is First Aide.
You can only advance your focus up to the level that your skill is at. So if your Healing was only +1D above the attribute, you could only advance your focus skill to +1D.

In order to reach +2D in First Aide (the focus skill), you would also need +2D in Healing (the base skill).

However, once you DO, instead of advancing up to a great value in First Aide, you could instead opt to spend 20 Character Points to pick up an Expertise in First Aide.

In this case, First Aide's Expertise is: “Healing Touch” – With a successful healing roll, can heal a person at double effectiveness. Can also automatically staunch bleeding on a mortally wounded person without a roll.

Then, if the player decided to get the Expertise, that opened up a new possibility in the future.

Once the First Aide skill reached +4D (which would also require that the base Healing score be elevated to +4D) the option opens up for that character to try for a Mastery in the skill. The Mastery costs 35 Character Points, and cannot be taken if the skill is raised up from +4D, the character becomes a Master in the skill and gains the mastery ability.

In this case, First Aide's Mastery is: : “Resuscitation” – Can perform a first aid roll on a person who has recently died. If the attempt is made within a number of minutes of the person dying equal to the number of dice in your First Aid, any healing performed can bring a character back from the dead.

That's about the most I've ever done to create something that has "prerequisites" for characters in D6 and that also helps differentiate characters from one another. Not everyone is going to save up their Character Points to get an Expertise or a Mastery. Some will just put the CPs towards advancing the skills more. So while one person might be an Expert in Dodge, another person might be an Expert in Hide. While another may have become a Master in Hide, and is even better than the Expert in it, not just in die codes.
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