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How would you handle this "Character Concept"?
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willg
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:41 pm    Post subject: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

I have a new RP starting soon and I'm running a classic D6.

So I have smuggler captain, a roguish Gambler, a failed Jedi looking for redemption and an alien student of the force, looking to train under the "Jedi Master"....if she can keep him sober long enough.

Finally, one says "Grey Jedi Mandalorian"......and I'm like.....ah.

I don't want to dampen my friend's spirits but, I'm unsure how to play this idea. Perhaps a Mandalorian who is FORCE ADEPT?

But the era is the post-A New Hope, but before Empire strikes back. Not exactly a time when Jedi are prominent, let alone having a Mandalorian Jedi.

I mean I know I can try talking him into something else, that's not the issue.

What I'm really looking for is a way to make it work and maybe make sense given the era.


Any thoughts chaps? What chacter template is the closest fit?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would use a custom force template, maybe something in the lines of a Zeison sha, not give him/her much if any of the classic mando gear other than add a mando style helmet .

I would then strongly urge the player to seek out a master to learn any other force skills, though I would allow him 1 FP and 1 DSP, replacing the normal 2FP of a force user/sensitive.

I would then speak to the player, again urge him to focus on the martial aspects, and the shooting stuff. maybe even keep his force use a secret until he suddenly pulls off a bige enough to notice but not big enough to be game changing force use.

Lets say he goes with a zeison sha, focus on telekiens, he can maybe disarm soemone or pull something to fall over the enemy.

Antoher would be to have him not realize he is actually using the force, cooperate with the player and have him do random stuff showing his actually ability to use the force, but maybe he clings to his skill with the blaster still, maybe even letting his force use be non combat related, it heals, enhances, but do not directly co towards combat, sense here could be cool, he could be a mando who feels he has some sharpened snese, but in reality he has sense, life sense, danger sense and the like,


But it is a hard one.......a final touch can be he is force sensitive, but has no dice to the force skill, and when he realizes he will maybe seek out training.

the grey aspect here being mostly that he is a direct combatant with balster and the like and less so with the force, but he still will adhere to the dark/light rules
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

willg wrote:
I have a new RP starting soon and I'm running a classic D6.

So I have smuggler captain, a roguish Gambler, a failed Jedi looking for redemption and an alien student of the force, looking to train under the "Jedi Master"....if she can keep him sober long enough.

Finally, one says "Grey Jedi Mandalorian"......and I'm like.....ah.

I don't want to dampen my friend's spirits but, I'm unsure how to play this idea. Perhaps a Mandalorian who is FORCE ADEPT?

But the era is the post-A New Hope, but before Empire strikes back. Not exactly a time when Jedi are prominent, let alone having a Mandalorian Jedi.

I mean I know I can try talking him into something else, that's not the issue.

What I'm really looking for is a way to make it work and maybe make sense given the era.


Any thoughts chaps? What chacter template is the closest fit?


Flip it around.
First, ask him what he means by grey jedi.
And secondly, ask him, how he feels a warrior society like the mandalorians, who were iirc quelled under the empire, would even have a force user, let alone a jedi in their ranks?

Put the onus on HIM, for why his concept should even be allowed.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:


Flip it around.
First, ask him what he means by grey jedi.
And secondly, ask him, how he feels a warrior society like the mandalorians, who were iirc quelled under the empire, would even have a force user, let alone a jedi in their ranks?

Put the onus on HIM, for why his concept should even be allowed.


Yeah, there's something going on in this description that is worth exploring. What sort of character concepts is this player wanting to explore. Why do they want to be gray? (Gray Jedi is a concept I have a hard time with, anyway, but we can leave that aside.) Besides being gray, what is it about Jedi and Mandalorian that they want to combine? What sort of story arc are they imagining? Is there something that they want to carefully explore, or is it just two different super-awesomes they want to put into a blender and the the superest-awesomest?

There are red flags here. But I think it is definitely on the player to describe why these three concepts belong together. I wouldn't shut it down immediately, but I would explore their ideas, their understanding of the concepts, and see what is at the root of what they're trying to do, and see if that root can play out in some way.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with making him define what he means by "grey jedi".
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Is there something that they want to carefully explore, or is it just two different super-awesomes they want to put into a blender and the the superest-awesomest?


That was my initial thought, when i read what he wanted.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
cheshire wrote:
Is there something that they want to carefully explore, or is it just two different super-awesomes they want to put into a blender and the the superest-awesomest?


That was my initial thought, when i read what he wanted.


My follow-up thought is that if you make him gray, then you no longer have all the moral stipulations that bind the Jedi.

While this may be a well-thought-out concept, it also just screams "big can of munchkin wish fulfillment fantasy."
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to point out that there has only been a single Mandalorian Jedi and that was 1,000+ years ago. Also, Mandalorians have an issue with Jedi going back to a conflict with Jedi that permanently altered the homeworld ecosystem. Furthermore, it's my understanding, and I could be wrong, Mandalorian armor was later optimized to fight Jedi.

As for "grey Jedi" I have found that players typically want this so they can have Force powers without the Jedi dogma and associated moral compass. Pretty much someone wanting to play a Paladin but not wanting to be LG. In none of the games I have run or played in successfully integrated a "grey Jedi" in sustained play.

With all that being said, the best explanation I can come up with is a jedi youngling that survived Order 66 and was "adopted" by a group of Mandalorians. This could tie into Rebels and maybe into The Mandalorian. The character could be as young as 23-24, if 4-5 years old at the time of Order 66.

The character would be Force Sensitive and you could trade out 1D of attribute dice for 1D in either Control or Sense and a single Force power. Lastly, I think you and the player should discuss what a "grey Jedi", does, and acts. To be on the same page when it comes to expectations.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One potential option is the Mandalorian Royal Guard (later the Mandalorian Protectors) of the New Mandalorian people. While no mention is made of them being Force Sensitive, there is a scene in Clone Wars Season 2 Episode 13: Voyage of Temptation where the Royal Guards repeatedly parry blaster bolts with a Force Staff. The only way this should be possible, strictly speaking, is if the Royal Guards had some degree of Force Sensitivity.

The main problem I see is that a Mandalorian Jedi smacks very strongly of munchkinism, trying to stack the deck and give a single character as much of the "cool stuff" as possible. However, non-Jedi Force Sensitive characters have been a thing since 1E, and with the fleshing out of the Mandalorians, there are some options.

I'm partial to Dredwulf60's Mandalorian Character Creation System, particularly the Career Focus system toward the bottom of the post, which provides the player with some guidance for creating a more specialized Mandalorian PC. It wouldn't be too hard to graft in a Seer/Mystic or Protector career focus, with starting 1D in Sense and Control (not Alter). This would give the Mandalorian character the option of learning a Lightsaber Combat equivalent power for the Force Staff, with which they can then use to parry blaster bolts and inflict Stun Damage.

As an aside, it's been postulated elsewhere that Chirrut Imwe from Rogue One was a minor Force Sensitive, which would go a long way toward explaining his fighting prowess and perceptiveness. Something similar is a possibility for a Mandalorian Mystic (for lack of a better term).

I didn't really keep up with Clone Wars, but the initial New Mandalorian Guard were relatively restrained and defensive in nature (their Force Staves only inflict Stun Damage). This may have changed in later episodes, but that defensive nature may be a possible limiter on what they can and can't do with their Force powers, limiting them to knowledge and defense, like a Mandalorian microcosm of the Jedi vs. Sith paradigm). Maybe you could homebrew some evil Mandalorian Warlocks allied with the Death Guard.

Just some thoughts...
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
One potential option is the Mandalorian Royal Guard (later the Mandalorian Protectors) of the New Mandalorian people. While no mention is made of them being Force Sensitive, there is a scene in Clone Wars Season 2 Episode 13: Voyage of Temptation where the Royal Guards repeatedly parry blaster bolts with a Force Staff. The only way this should be possible, strictly speaking, is if the Royal Guards had some degree of Force Sensitivity.


There's a concept worth exploring. They're not the "Boba Fett style" of Mandalorian, but still Mandalorian. Having some sort of Force-sensitive tradition that is part of the royal guard does kind of make a certain kind of sense. Though I would imagine that tradition being very limited. If a cool-but-limited character idea is something they're interested in, that's a possible direction.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also opens up the possibility of a Dark Mystic (for some reason, Death Watch Warlock seems an appropriate name) as a foil / nemesis for a Force using Mandalorian...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: How would you handle this "Character Concept"? Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
garhkal wrote:
cheshire wrote:
Is there something that they want to carefully explore, or is it just two different super-awesomes they want to put into a blender and the the superest-awesomest?


That was my initial thought, when i read what he wanted.


My follow-up thought is that if you make him gray, then you no longer have all the moral stipulations that bind the Jedi.

While this may be a well-thought-out concept, it also just screams "big can of munchkin wish fulfillment fantasy."


Exactly. That's often Why most DM's i know, do not allow "Grey jedi"..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gray is the path to the Dark Side
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Gray is the path to the Dark Side


'Zactly. Sure, be Gray. But that third or fourth DSP might be a doosey.

And, well... let's see what the player says. Maybe there's a way to guide the more positive desires behind the concept. I had a first-time roleplayer (who is a pacifist IRL) who said, "I want to play a bad guy." While that had several red flags, we wound up having a conversation that led to her having a character that fits with the Rebel campaign we're doing, and one that she's really enjoying.

So, please do report back as to how the conversation goes, willg. I hope when it comes time to do some actual character creation, you have something that is more fun to work than the original idea.
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The Bissler
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't allow any more than one force user in my party after running a campaign where there were two. It was a long time before they got any decent powers (probably about 30 sessions) because it was hard to find any mentors, but once they did, they started seriously dominating play. We played over 50 sessions but I know the other players felt frustrated by how powerful the Jedis were by the end of it. After taking a break for 2 years and starting a new campaign with fresh characters, I'm quite pleased that we now have no force users!
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