The error of a missed award (or penalty)

[KageRyu]

I have had an issue nagging at me since my last game session, and I am not sure if I should have handled it differently. I feel I may have made a mistake, but am unsure how to correct it. There were two situations where I feel I should have handed out Dark Side points, but didn't. At the time, I felt I had reasons not too, but now I am unsure. Perhaps a brief description of the events:

Voc, a Gand mercenary, is interrogating three prisoners who are subdued and secured with unilateral bonding adhesives (tape). This race he is interrogating is very xenopathic (hates off worlders) and views all aliens as part of an invading force (I have provided hints and clues to this numerous times). So, they are being less than co-operative, despite the Gand's attempts to be civil. One of the prisonners spit on the Gand, at which point the player announced he's belting him, full force. We roll damage, and it comes up a mortal wound... The player honestly did not mean to hit him that hard, and was surprised at the damage...The Jedi ended up using Transfer Force to stabalize the wounds for treatment, and the prisoner will live.
At the time, I did not award a DSP, as the Gand did not intend to inflict a mortal wound, and was surprised by the damage. But, in retrospect I feel I should have awarded one, as the Gand did not pull his punch either...and the prisoner was unarmed...etc...
Drevin, the Jedi Aprentice, was continuing the interrogation after relieving the Gand. Having probed their minds and learned all he thought he could, he wanted to knock the prisoners out so the PCs could talk freely without being heard. In his recklessness, he grabbed a coffee cup, took a sip, and smacked one of them with it... The player playing Drevon does not always think clearly sometimes, and realized this wasn't a good idea after doing it. He did not knock the prisoner out, in fact, he didn't even hurt him (the Jedi is not so strong as the Gand).
At the time I contemplated a DSP, but decided against it, as I felt it was not an intentional malicious act, but recklessness on the part of the player...and he didn't wound the prisoner, and didn't try again either. In retrospect though, I think I may have been too nice...

I am sure you will all agree I was too generous, but I was also exuberant to see my players working together instead of bickering this time. I feel I should have awarded one or both of these actions a DSP in retrospect, but the question is, How do I remedy this.
Do I approach the players before the next game and say,"Gentlemen, I feel I was too lenient in certain matters last game. After Careful deliberation I feel Voc should recieve a DSP for nearly killing an unarmed prisoner, and Drevin should receive one for recklessly striking the prisonner with a coffee cup."?
I am planning on Drevin having a stern talking too from his master, and being forced to perform actions of atonement either way (with or without the DSP) after his master sees the recording of the interrogation.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[Endwyn]

Do you allow players to declare actions like "I backhand the prisoner. Cap damage at a wound."? If you allow such declerations, I can see why you might consider a DSP. If not, or if the player was unaware he could cap the damage then could he have reasonably expected he would cause so much damage? (You said you were even surprised by the damage roll.) The question about capping damage applys to both.

Sit #1: I'm not really sure without more info if he should get the DSP or not. I think that if your borderline you should pull the player to side and tell him exactly what you consider to be the line between DSP and no DSP's. Then tell him that the only reason that you didn't award the DSP was because you knew the level of damage he inflicted was unintentional and then tell him what his options are: like if you allow declaring a damage cap, if he has the option not to reroll the 6's on his damage, or if he has to be careful of all actions and has no way to prevent causing too much damage.

Sit #2: Again, just talk to the player and tell him where you're drawing the line. Tell him why you didn't give him one, and what he should consider better options next time. Perhaps tell him that his actions were walking on the fine line of acceptable for your game and that if he walks that line again he will get the DSP.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Kehlin Yew]

I dont think either of them should be awarded a DSP. I dont exactly know what a Gand Merc is, but are they force sensitive? If not then why bother? He was interrogating a prisoner.

And then the Jedi had to save the prisoner, which would negate his coffee cup act in my eyes.

[Endwyn]

Gand is a race, merc is short for mercenary. Neither has anything to do with force-sensitive or not.

It doesn't work tit for tat. You can't kill someone in cold blood and then expect that saving a race washes the slate clean when both events happen in the same adventure. If you get a DSP then you have to atone to get rid of it. If my Jedi PC killed someone out of rage, felt justified for doing it, and never felt remorse for his actions then he can't atone. I, the player, can start each adventure stating I want to atone, but if the character never accepts what he did as wrong, the atoning will never go anywhere. If fact, that PC could use a force point every other adventure heroicly and save 12 different races from distruction with no regard for his own safety and never atone or get rid of the DSP.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Jamfke]

As I see it, (my own opinion so please forgive if it conflicts with others), unless the Gand is Force sensitive, he shouldn't receive a DSP as he wasn't trying to kill the prisoner.

The Jedi is under a much stricter moral code than everyone else, but if he was simply trying to knock out the prisoner and not acting in anger, then he shouldn't receive one either.

I'm sure you already know this, but the rulebook states that if the character is about to perform something that you deem would net them a DSP, then you should warn them first and allow them the opportunity to change their actions beforehand. If they go ahead anyway, then give it to them.

Like Endwn, I think you should give them a chance to cap their damage if they wish.

[Sabre]

In my view, the GM saying "I didn't give you a DSP then, but now that I think about it you earned it." is like a character saying "I didn't want to use a FP then, but now that I've rolled I've changed my mind." It's too late, and the best you can do is warn them that upon reflection you would have given them DSPs (and would in the future if that kind of thing was repeated). This is especially the case if these would have been their first DSPs since the GM is supposed to provide a warning before the player commits to the action (on the first one).

In the case of the Gand, if he's not Force Sensitive I don't know that he deserves the DSP at all, although if the Jedi was present, the Jedi might get one for not preventing the beating of a helpless prisoner (which would probably have caused more bickering so it's just as well it was overlooked). If the Gand is lashing out in anger, it doesn't really matter to whether he gets a DSP or not what degree of success he meets, which is why the Jedi in more or less the same situation with a lesser degree of success does warrant the DSP. The difference between the two cases is, one is FS, the other is not. They are held to a different standard. The freedom to act on anger is one of the perks of not being a Force Sensitive character (although if he'd really gone for blood or tortured the guy I'd still say a non FS character went too far).

[Endwyn]

Caping damage really allows the players a chance to avoid "freak rolls" that can kill people. I once kicked someone under a table, it was meant to be a simple kick, you know the kind you'd give a friend to get their attention. The GM allowed me to pick how much of my strength to roll, so I chose 1D. (I thought that's as low as I could pick. I latter found out he would have accepted +1 or +2 as an answer too.) Well, long story short, I rolled 6's and the other PC rolled low and someone got seriously injured.

I wished I could have declared cap at stun prior to rolling so that no one could get hurt badly.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Soniv]

In your case, Endwyn, I probably would have declared it a no-roll for damage and a VE Dex to hit. Getting someone's attention shouldn't require a damage roll, as there's no real combat involved. The VE Dex would be there for fun. "You rolled a two? Okay. You kick the bottom of the table instead, and it shakes violently."

[Endwyn]

It was more than a tap, kinda like a what you'd expect if a friend was joking around and kicked you under the table as joke. But yeah, wasn never the intention to do real damage with the kick.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Grimace]

I wouldn't have given either situation a DSP. The interrogation being done wasn't attempting to be especially brutal, and unless he continued to beat upon the guy, one punch wasn't excessive at all. The damage was a surprise. Basically, you find out the hard way the guy has a glass jaw.

As to the coffee cup....no way in the world would I ever give out a DSP for something like that. In fact, I'd probably be laughing too hard to think of it as a hostile act. That would be like a person attempting to snap a person's neck and only succeeding in giving them a convenient back alignment.

Like Jamfke stated, if you felt that the action being taken would result in a DSP, then you should warn the player that if they carry through with it, they will get a DSP, and let them change their mind if they so desire. The way I do it is say "Are you really sure you want to do that? That act is quite evil and bad things might occur." My players know what that means.

Whatever you do, though, don't go back and award them DSP post occurrence. Like Sabre mentioned, doing that is like a player wanting bonuses after they find out they did poorly. Doesn't work. Just learn from it, or in this case, realize that perhaps your double-thinking is too harsh and continue to go with your first impressions on the situation.

[Argamoth]

I agree with most of the others.

#1: Probably no DSP, as the Gand was only trying to knock him out.
#2: I'd award and SSP for the Jedi. (Silly Side Point).

[K_Feldspar]

Hmmm definitely they can't be awarded retroactively. If you feel there should have been DSPs then say so at the beginning of the next episode, and say that in the future they will earn DSPs for such actions.

As to wether or not they should have gotten dark side points. The Gand is calling it close. Remember to judge the action, and not the outcome. The only thing you know for certain is the action you take. The outcome is not necesarily ever predictable.I would say no because the target didn't die and the PC was immediately concerned over him. (From what I can tell.)

The jedi seems to have been acting goofy, but he should follow a stricter code. He should know better than to do something unnecesary like that. If they don't want to be overheard then leave the room. I'm assuming there was an alternative like that. So since the jedi was causing suffering for his own convenience I'd give him the DSP.

I hope you can follow my logic.

[Allst Beamem]

I have only awarded DSP's to NFS char. when they take some kind of joy or perverse pleasure in torture or killing.

The Jedi in this case I may have issued a DSP just because he caused another pain with no thought or regret.

Again this is just IMO. So really who cares

[Hellcat]

The problem that I see in this instance is that you're penalizing them after that particular session is over. Maybe they'll be very understanding and accept it without any problems. But on the otherhand it might also be a cause for contention in your next session. The real problem is how do you handle such a situation without upsetting your players too much. I highly doubt a single incident like this would be enough to make them want to leave the group. But they could feel it's unfair of you to be "GMing behind their backs" as far as punishing their characters is concerned.

I honestly don't know what I'd do in this situation. The closest I can come is that I regulary volunteer as a regional and state judge/appraiser for Destination Imagination where I much prefer being a staging area judge/appraiser because I don't have to score the kids. When I do judge/appraise in an area where I actually have to score them, I'm always afraid I'll do something that might sour them on the idea of participating the following year. For high schoolers who have been participating in the program since they were in the third grade, or even younger, it's not much of a problem, but for folks for whom this would be their first year, it really makes you worry. I've been very lucky that in the few adventures I've run I've never actually had to penalize the players for anything.

Maybe you should take them aside before the next session and explain to them what happened. Then ask them if they would be willing to accept the DSPs. Not something a GM should do, certainly not in the middle of a session. But in this situation where you feel you should have awarded the DSPs, maybe it would be good to ask the players since it was something that happened in a previous session.
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FLUFFY for President!!!!

Wanted Poster

[KageRyu]

Ok, I will clarify things for some of the questions: