The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

It's a Trap! Sensor Jamming Question
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters -> It's a Trap! Sensor Jamming Question Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The Bissler
Commander
Commander


Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving on to a fresh question: Interdictors and Gravity Wells

Am I right in my understanding that if an Interdictor places a gravity well one turn, it can shut it down, wait 6 rounds and then fire again?

Also, that the other three projectors are unaffected by the recharging for the first gravity well?

Finally, that, if my understanding is correct, the Interdictor could fire a new well for four turns, each lasting one turn (and minimising the energy drain to 1 per turn), with only two turns before the first could be fired again? In practice, I'd probably leave the last well in place until the first projector was ready to fire again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
garhkal wrote:
How's about do it a tactics VS tactics. The ship captain vs the imperials..


Could do - the only problem is that we've never once used Tactics in play before, so his skill is sitting at its base attribute. You could argue that this is the fault of the player for not boosting his skill but this character has only played two 1 week adventures and when there's other skills which seem more important, I don't blame him for not spending Character Points on in it, particularly when there's no precedent for it being used in previous sessions.

This may be of interest to you: Tactics: A New Old Approach.
It’s a rewrite of the Tactics skill from the 1E Rules Companion, providing some concrete advantages to combat on good skill rolls. There’s also a more open-ended version further down the page.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12940
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
garhkal wrote:
How's about do it a tactics VS tactics. The ship captain vs the imperials..


Could do - the only problem is that we've never once used Tactics in play before, so his skill is sitting at its base attribute. You could argue that this is the fault of the player for not boosting his skill but this character has only played two 1 week adventures and when there's other skills which seem more important, I don't blame him for not spending Character Points on in it, particularly when there's no precedent for it being used in previous sessions.


Then this may show him, WHY the skill is important..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bissler
Commander
Commander


Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
garhkal wrote:
How's about do it a tactics VS tactics. The ship captain vs the imperials..


Could do - the only problem is that we've never once used Tactics in play before, so his skill is sitting at its base attribute. You could argue that this is the fault of the player for not boosting his skill but this character has only played two 1 week adventures and when there's other skills which seem more important, I don't blame him for not spending Character Points on in it, particularly when there's no precedent for it being used in previous sessions.


Then this may show him, WHY the skill is important..


Maybe! We'll see!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
Moving on to a fresh question: Interdictors and Gravity Wells

Am I right in my understanding that if an Interdictor places a gravity well one turn, it can shut it down, wait 6 rounds and then fire again?

Also, that the other three projectors are unaffected by the recharging for the first gravity well?

Finally, that, if my understanding is correct, the Interdictor could fire a new well for four turns, each lasting one turn (and minimising the energy drain to 1 per turn), with only two turns before the first could be fired again? In practice, I'd probably leave the last well in place until the first projector was ready to fire again.

From a purely gaming standpoint, the original version of the gravity well projector was much friendlier; it was just like a standard weapon, but if it hit a ship, the ship couldn't jump to hyperspace that round, and the projector had to re-roll to hit every round.

The version in Wanted by Cracken is designed to mimic the way gravity well projectors function in the Zahn novels, which is decidedly more realistic and much crunchier.

I tried to find a middle ground when I re-wrote the Interdictor stats, but that's just the best I could think of at the time; it could likely be streamlined even further.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
Set up 2. Same colour code as before, only Lambdas are with the Interdictor in the orange box

I have a hard time picturing the Lambdas having enough power available to completely block the sensors of the Providence, especially when one considers that gravity sensors (Crystal Gravfield Traps) are in common use. Maybe a dedicated ECM Lambda variant could potentially pull it off, but a capital ship's level of available power is going to be several orders of magnitude greater than even a group of shuttles.

If the idea is for a deliberate ambush, with the Interdictor already in-system, I'd suggest simply having the Interdictor be "running silent", or have it waiting somewhere out-system within subspace comm range, so that it can jump in behind the Nowhere, cutting it off. Used that way, Lambdas make more sense as comm relays (per Zahn, having shields up disrupts long-range communications).

Or, if you're looking for something cooler than a Lambda, one of these.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12940
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

From a purely gaming standpoint, the original version of the gravity well projector was much friendlier; it was just like a standard weapon, but if it hit a ship, the ship couldn't jump to hyperspace that round, and the projector had to re-roll to hit every round.

The version in Wanted by Cracken is designed to mimic the way gravity well projectors function in the Zahn novels, which is decidedly more realistic and much crunchier.

I tried to find a middle ground when I re-wrote the Interdictor stats, but that's just the best I could think of at the time; it could likely be streamlined even further.


I prefer the Wanted by Cracken version, as the sheer size of a grave well produced, should hold even a large cap ship, for more than just one or two rounds...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I prefer the Wanted by Cracken version, as the sheer size of a grave well produced, should hold even a large cap ship, for more than just one or two rounds...

The biggest drawback of the Wanted by Cracken version is how crunchy it is. Way too many steps for fast-paced combat.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Bissler
Commander
Commander


Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
Set up 2. Same colour code as before, only Lambdas are with the Interdictor in the orange box

I have a hard time picturing the Lambdas having enough power available to completely block the sensors of the Providence, especially when one considers that gravity sensors (Crystal Gravfield Traps) are in common use. Maybe a dedicated ECM Lambda variant could potentially pull it off, but a capital ship's level of available power is going to be several orders of magnitude greater than even a group of shuttles.

If the idea is for a deliberate ambush, with the Interdictor already in-system, I'd suggest simply having the Interdictor be "running silent", or have it waiting somewhere out-system within subspace comm range, so that it can jump in behind the Nowhere, cutting it off. Used that way, Lambdas make more sense as comm relays (per Zahn, having shields up disrupts long-range communications).

Or, if you're looking for something cooler than a Lambda, one of these.


Apologies for giving the impression that the Lambdas are jamming the Rebels - it's the Star Destroyer that's jamming them from behind.

I've been slowly writing up the encounter, I'll put it up in full once I've finished it then let everyone go to town on it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KageRyu
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1029
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest handling the Jamming aspect in 2 ways (not either or, but two approaches are available to each/any ship). As Star Wars has never been super crunchy on mechanics and such and Sensors on a ship generally represent passive and active scanning and counter measures both then the ships Sensor score becomes important when jamming and will help determine how effective it is. Scale should be a factor, as the sheer power of a capital ships sensors should overwhelm a star fighter.

Passive Jamming - This method the ship is only taking steps to jam, block, redirect, or misrepresent any active scanning on itself. It's Die Rolls and jamming difficulties only effect attempts to scan it for information. Obviously if someone has a visual of the vessel they may be able to identify type, unless they overcome it's jamming no other information will be available about it (shields up or down, weapons powered or not, etc...

Active Jamming - The Vessel targets another vessels to interfere with all of it's outbound sensory attempts. In this case, the Sensor Score/ Jamming Difficulties affect all sensor uses and scans by the targeted vessel and will affect it's ability to scan or read any sensor information. Multiple Targets may be chosen as per MAP, but when comparing Capital Ships to Starfighters or smaller I recommend treating a squadron as a single target. A successful jam of this type would prevent a capital ship from detecting or scanning any and all targets - though they would know they are being jammed - but without visual may not know by who and fire control should be useless.

I have, in my various games, used a lot of house rules for Electronic Warfare in my Non-SW games with fun results. Things like providing fake info to target sensors, handling Electronic Warfare in a similar fashion to weapon combat, adding jamming rolls to weapon to hit difficulties, etc... While I could try to dig up some of these rules to make available, it is not really in the spirit of the SW setting and unless you have a group that likes these aspects of conflict will bog down and possibly derail a game.
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
The Bissler
Commander
Commander


Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers KageRyu! It will be Active Jamming I'll be using and agree that treating a squadron of fighters as a single target is a good way to go. My group like things to be as simple as possible so I definitely don't want to put you to trouble about this!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
Cheers KageRyu! It will be Active Jamming I'll be using and agree that treating a squadron of fighters as a single target is a good way to go. My group like things to be as simple as possible so I definitely don't want to put you to trouble about this!

Agreed; treating a starfighter squadron as a single entity - a "dispersed architecture capital ship" as I've described it elsewhere - is the best method I've been able to come up with. A squadron commander can then dictate his unit's formation (tight vs. loose) which in turn shifts the Scale up or down, with the Scale bonus applying as a bonus to some acts and a penalty in others. For example, a "loose" formation would be best for air superiority (with the bonus applying to Maneuverability and Fire Control), while a "tight" formation would be best for massed attacks against well-armored targets (with the bonus applying to Shields and Damage).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12940
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
Scale should be a factor, as the sheer power of a capital ships sensors should overwhelm a star fighter.


Agreed. IF a cap ship actively tries to jam a fighter or freighter, it SHOULD have a much higher ability to DO so, just from sheer power output.

Also, would it just affect scanning only, or also impact fire control?

Quote:
Agreed; treating a starfighter squadron as a single entity - a "dispersed architecture capital ship" as I've described it elsewhere - is the best method I've been able to come up with. A squadron commander can then dictate his unit's formation (tight vs. loose) which in turn shifts the Scale up or down, with the Scale bonus applying as a bonus to some acts and a penalty in others. For example, a "loose" formation would be best for air superiority (with the bonus applying to Maneuverability and Fire Control), while a "tight" formation would be best for massed attacks against well-armored targets (with the bonus applying to Shields and Damage).


Also, if they are tight formation, it would be easier for the enemy to keep jamming them, vice if they are in a lose formation..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
Apologies for giving the impression that the Lambdas are jamming the Rebels - it's the Star Destroyer that's jamming them from behind.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I've played around with the idea of space transports modified as dedicated ECM platforms, but only in Alliance service, since they're the ones who make the most use of independent starfighter units.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Also, if they are tight formation, it would be easier for the enemy to keep jamming them, vice if they are in a lose formation..

My solution here is to use the ship's Sensor stats as a framework for Jamming. For the purposes of this scenario, a starfighter squadron in tight formation would count as a single target, and the jamming ship would be able to use Focus on it. A squadron in loose formation, on the other hand, would be too dispersed to target as a single unit, and the jamming ship would have to use their Search dice, instead.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0