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A Question for Ground Pounders
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
"Proficient and capable" doesn't mean every soldier is going to be equally as good, or that every soldier will be equipped with one of each. While I'm still a little unclear as to what OP's purpose is here, I don't see why there's an issue with units having different expertise, especially w/r/t crew-served heavy weapons like an E-WEB or some of the other things hinted at in the Imperial Sourcebook. I mean, wouldn't a line squad need to strike a certain balance between firepower and mobility that would be hampered by making them lug around a disassembled E-Web? Not that E-Web's wouldn't be necessary or useful, but it would ultimately be simpler to just assign them to a line squad as needed.


Not sure if anyone still cares about this, but here it is anyway (I obviously missed it when it was new):

In my experience, a soldier is issued what he MIGHT need, and carries what he expects to use. For example, as a gunner, I was issued a .50BMG, an M249, an M4, an M590A1, and an M9.

I carried the 249 when dismounted. When mounted, I sat behind the .50, and kept the M4 handy in a rifle mount in my turret. The pistol was easy enough to strap to my kit, so I always had it with me. The shotgun was loaded with bean bags for taking warning shots or crowd dispersal or whatever.

Despite having the .50, the M4 was very useful for clearing bridges as we passed under.

But if on foot, I carried only the 249 or an M4 (squad leadsr's choice) plus my pistol.

When necessary, I switched to the role of driver from gunner.

So, for logistical reasons, IF the commander has access to enough stuff, then he should just issue it out to squad leaders, and they can configure their squad to the mission at hand.

If there is only one machine gun (or repeater) in the whole company... then maybe it would make sense that only a select few are proficient/have access to it.

But the reality is that the basic function of a squad is to support the deployment of the machine gun (or other "heavy weapon"). Having heavy weapons platoons or companies just doesn't make much sense from a boots-on-ground operational perspective.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you were in the US Military, Naaman.

Not every military is so lucky to have all that gear.

As a Vet friend of mine put it when I showed him a pic of a tripod mounted M249 running through five linked boxes of ammo, "The BARREL! That poor barrel!!!"

Turns out that the Canadian Armed Forces don't exactly hand out replacement barrels willy nilly. Which is kind of a concern if the barrel overheats in combat and you need to switch it out.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the idea that the Empire has a shortage of resources?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Is the idea that the Empire has a shortage of resources?

There are hints of that in the ImpSB, such as mentioning how not all infantry units have been issued with light repeating blasters or advanced comlinks (as in, the kind that don't get disrupted by a TIE's ion wake from a kilometer away), or that the Empire is in the process of upgrading all of its Line Battlegroups to Reinforced Battlegroups but hasn't completed it yet.

My thinking is more that the Empire would intentionally limit the equipment available to a unit in order to make it more dependent on the support of other units. It's hardly the best approach, but it would be consistent with their approach in other areas, like TIE doctrine.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can certainly see the bureaucracy creating a clunkiness about the imperial military.

But if I imagine an "EWHB squad" with three crew served weapons, but no means to transport them, you've got a bunch of guys carrying around weapons that they can't even shoot if they see an enemy.

If the squad at least had three vehicles, they could mount the weapons and serve as mobile weapons platforms. In which case, an EWHB squad should also be issued one vehicle per gun.

In this way, they could serve as a quick reaction force that can support a foot slogging element in need of additional firepower.

Then again, if you have mechanized infantry, they would have no weapons on their vehicles since the heavy weapons company has all of them... and they become sitting ducks.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picture it more like WW2 infantry, where the mobility would be provided by trucks, each hauling 1-2 squads. I do agree that the Heavy Weapons Squads need better mobility, and considering how little use the Heavy Weapons Repulsorlift Squads get in the OB, it would be simpler to just mash the two together. IMO, the Assault Squads should focus more on man-portable heavy weapons, not the crew-served heavier stuff like the E-Web.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess that depends on how we define "crew served" and "heavy" etc. For example, a sniper rifle is a crew served weapon, according to the US army.

Light repeaters, medium repeaters, and perhaps some other weapons should be available to infantry line units.

Or, if not, it could explain why imperial infantry isn't more dominant on the battlefield.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
Sounds like you were in the US Military, Naaman.

Not every military is so lucky to have all that gear.

As a Vet friend of mine put it when I showed him a pic of a tripod mounted M249 running through five linked boxes of ammo, "The BARREL! That poor barrel!!!"

Turns out that the Canadian Armed Forces don't exactly hand out replacement barrels willy nilly. Which is kind of a concern if the barrel overheats in combat and you need to switch it out.


True that. It matters not how much ammo you have, but how much ammo you can toss down range.. No barrel switch outs, that usually hits in at around 400-500, before the barrel heats up too much... Depending on the gun of course.

Naaman wrote:
Is the idea that the Empire has a shortage of resources?


I'd say that would more be the rebellion. BUT i can certainly see the empire having areas where they have shortages, just to encourage troops to NOT TRY TO DO IT all themselves, but call in reinforcements..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Well, I guess that depends on how we define "crew served" and "heavy" etc. For example, a sniper rifle is a crew served weapon, according to the US army.

Light repeaters, medium repeaters, and perhaps some other weapons should be available to infantry line units.

Or, if not, it could explain why imperial infantry isn't more dominant on the battlefield.

Mostly I'm thinking in terms of a weapon that could be carried and operated by one trooper in a pinch, but works best in combination with an assistant / spotter / loader / whatever. Something like an E-Web that needs to be carrier around by a team, then assembled / disassembled at the firing position would be shifted to the Heavy Weapons Repulsorlift squads, which already have the option of dismounting their weapons. Plus, that squad also gives the option for other weapons, like an Auto-Grenade Launcher or a Light Laser Cannon.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
Sounds like you were in the US Military, Naaman.

Not every military is so lucky to have all that gear.

As a Vet friend of mine put it when I showed him a pic of a tripod mounted M249 running through five linked boxes of ammo, "The BARREL! That poor barrel!!!"

Turns out that the Canadian Armed Forces don't exactly hand out replacement barrels willy nilly. Which is kind of a concern if the barrel overheats in combat and you need to switch it out.


Well, as a matter of fact, the Canadian military does issue a spare barrel with every C9 (aka M249) and C6 GPMG (aka M240 aka FN MAG).

Supposed to swap barrels after every 200 round of sustained fire.
I once put almost 400 round through a single barrel, on the adverse gas setting (cyclic fire rate of 1000 rounds per minute) in a very short time (I was a dumb private at the time and would have kicked my own @$$ as a sergeant if I had caught myself doing it.)

The barrel literally glowed in the pre-dawn darkness and made the dew on all of the grass around it turn to steam.

So....FIVE boxes....yeah...that would be one hurting barrel if the shooting wasn't really spread out over time.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the video again. I was mistaken, it's "only" three linked boxes. (Note: Facebook link. All I can find it in.)
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
Found the video again. I was mistaken, it's "only" three linked boxes. (Note: Facebook link. All I can find it in.)


Wow.
Yep...that'll be glowing if it was dark. It was already smoking before that mega-burst.

Looks more like an M240 though; what we call a C6 and the Belgian manufacturers call an FN MAG.

M249 rate is much faster!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thought regarding Naaman's description of weapons issues, and how to square it with the OoB...

The OoB lists both Repulsorlift and Repulsorlift Heavy Weapons Squads. Maybe keep them separate, but combine certain aspects of the two, specifically, having them all feature dismountable heavy weapons of some sort. The standard Repulsorlift Squads would all have dismountable HRBs while the Heavy Weapons units would mount either a Light Laser Cannon (for anti-vehicle use) or an AGL. Both types would still have the capacity to carry 4-5 passengers, in addition to their own crew.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A thought regarding Naaman's description of weapons issues, and how to square it with the OoB...

The OoB lists both Repulsorlift and Repulsorlift Heavy Weapons Squads. Maybe keep them separate, but combine certain aspects of the two, specifically, having them all feature dismountable heavy weapons of some sort. The standard Repulsorlift Squads would all have dismountable HRBs while the Heavy Weapons units would mount either a Light Laser Cannon (for anti-vehicle use) or an AGL. Both types would still have the capacity to carry 4-5 passengers, in addition to their own crew.


That makes a lot of sense (to me).
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