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"Cinematic" hyperspace travel times
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Yora
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:05 am    Post subject: "Cinematic" hyperspace travel times Reply with quote

One thing where I always found the EU not really fitting with the movies is in the implied travel times for hyperspace jump.
Nothing really amazing here, but it's in the category of I made it so I might as well share it.

I think the best example for a jump in the movies for which we can guess the travel time is the journey from Tatooine to Alderaan in the Millennium Falcon.
They make the jump to hyperspace, Luke and Obi-Wan do the lightsaber training, and Chewbacca and R2D2 play holo-chess. Then Han comes in from the cockpitand goes bragging about his escape from the Empire. Three and a half minutes later the alarm goes off that they are about to reach Alderaan. It is unclear how long Han was still in the cockpit checking on things before he came back, but it all sounds like the whole jump didn't take more than 15 minutes or so.
Given than Chewbacca wants to kill time by playing a game and that Obi-Wan thinks it's now a good time to start with some lightsaber training, I think it narratively makes more sense to assume something like 60 to 90 minutes. And I decided to go with 90 minutes.

The game stats the Millennium Falcon as having a x0.5 Hyperspace modifier (as much sense as you can make of ".5 past lightspeed"), so the standard travel time would be 3 hours.
On maps of the galaxy, it just so happens (or perhaps it was done deliberately for just this issue) that Tatooine and Alderaan sit right next to the Corellian Run and the Hydian Way, maybe the two most important Hyperlanes in the galaxy. So this jump we see in the movie has the best possible conditions for covering a journey of this distance.

The following is my reference yardstick for estimating hyperspace jump travel times:

Distance from Tatooine to Alderaan on a major Hyperlane equals a base time of 180 minutes / 3 hour.
Measure this distance on any map you have and whatever number of pixels, cm, inch, or thumbs you get is equal to 3 hours travel.

My interpretation of hyperlanes is that the major hyperlanes are almost straight express routes where the locations and movements of stars have been extremely precisely measured and get regularly updated, which allows the nav computer to set a course with a very small margin of error for avoiding stars.
Away from the hyperlanes the position and movement of stars is less precise, and so you need to plot your course with a bigger margin of error and go wide around any stars along the way and all the curving increases the total length of the jump considerably.

For journeys along secondary hyperlanes, I multiply the base duration by 3.
For journeys not on hyperlanes, I multiply the base duration by 10.

And since I don't want to go measuring distances on a map and do the calculations for each leg of a journey by hand during play, I made this list with base travel times between various planets that might feature prominently in the campaign I am planning.

Major Hyperlane (Astrogation Very easy5)
New Cov - Ryloth: 90 min / 1.5h
Malastare - Eriadu: 60 min / 1h
Eriadu - Sluis Van: 30 min / 0.5h
Darkknell - Eriadu: 30 min / 0.5h

Minor Hyperlane (Astrogation Easy)
Nar Shaddaa - Bothawui: 180 min / 3h
Bothawui - Tatooine: 210 min / 3.5h
Bothawui - Mon Gazza: 150 min / 2.5h
Tatooine - Llanic: 90 min / 1.5h
Mon Gazza - Llanic: 60 min / 15h
Llanic - Enarc: 150 min / 2.5h
Enarc - Darkknell: 150 min / 2.5h
Enarc - Svivren: 210 min / 3.5h
Llanic - Svivren: 210 min / 3.5h
Tatooine - Ryloth: 60 min / 1h
Tatooine - Gamorr: 240 min / 4h
Eriadu - Bespin: 150 min / 2.5h

Regular Jump (Astrogation Moderate)
Tatooine - Rodia: 60 min / 1h
Vergesso - Reuss: 120 min / 2h

Combined Jump
Nar Shaddaa - Eriadu: 690 min / 11.5h

Since more precision than 30 minutes won't ever really matter (and I think even that is needlessly granular), any other jumps that might come up I'll probably just eyeball.

Most space travel will probably be with 2x hyperspace modifiers, so the actual travel times will be twice of what the list says. Mostly durations of 2 to 6 hours, which is typical for air travel inside Europe.
Given that all these planets are in the same general corner of the galaxy, this system results in flight times across the galaxy to be very much comparable to air travel on Earth right now. It's quite different from what's usually done in the EU, but I think matches quite well what is shown in the movies. (Though the Emperor traveling from Coruscant to Mustafar to pick up a terribly injured Vader and bring him back to a hospital on Coruscant feels like it was even considerably faster than this.)
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itsmrwilson
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: hyperspace travel thoughts Reply with quote

I wish I had found this before I wrote the post I just wrote! It fits just about exactly with what I was thinking.

itsmrwilson wrote:
Hey there, long-time listener and I think first-time caller.

Starting up a SW game imminently and I've been thinking about a not-too-headachey way to reconcile hyperspace travel times with the films compared to the various published games.

The games, from d6 to FFG, have all suggested travel times in days and weeks to get somewhere, but that seems really excessive unless the planet in question is way off the beaten path. I mean, I've never seen anyone take a change of clothes in the films. That U-wing looks pretty cramped, and they all pack in for a trip from Jedha to Eadu. And then there's the 18-hour window in TLJ where Finn and Rose travel to and from Cantonica in that dinky shuttle pod.

So I'm inclined to think that if you have access to a major hyperlane like the Hydian, you can seriously haul @$$, but then speeds will drop exponentially when you hit the backwater and unknown regions. Like going from megabit internet to an acoustic coupler modem.

It makes traveling the galaxy kind of like traveling this planet. You can get from JFK to SYD in 22 hours, but then driving from Sydney to a small town in Queensland will probably take just as long, even though it's 1/10 the distance.

How does everyone else figure it?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

these "times" are based on what ship?

Thje falcon is faster than most other ships, giving the falcon numbers to an travel would not be the "norm" but an extreme.

If we say it takes a week to go from a to b witha x1 drive then it would naturally thake x times longer with a x2 or x 4 drive and much faster with a x 0.5 and the like.

so what numbers are this based on, diffent ships with diffenrnt drive speeds.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: hyperspace travel thoughts Reply with quote

itsmrwilson wrote:
Hey there, long-time listener and I think first-time caller.

Starting up a SW game imminently and I've been thinking about a not-too-headachey way to reconcile hyperspace travel times with the films compared to the various published games.

The games, from d6 to FFG, have all suggested travel times in days and weeks to get somewhere, but that seems really excessive unless the planet in question is way off the beaten path. I mean, I've never seen anyone take a change of clothes in the films. That U-wing looks pretty cramped, and they all pack in for a trip from Jedha to Eadu. And then there's the 18-hour window in TLJ where Finn and Rose travel to and from Cantonica in that dinky shuttle pod.

So I'm inclined to think that if you have access to a major hyperlane like the Hydian, you can seriously haul @$$, but then speeds will drop exponentially when you hit the backwater and unknown regions. Like going from megabit internet to an acoustic coupler modem.

It makes traveling the galaxy kind of like traveling this planet. You can get from JFK to SYD in 22 hours, but then driving from Sydney to a small town in Queensland will probably take just as long, even though it's 1/10 the distance.

How does everyone else figure it?

Although it is official policy that no published hyperspace travel times are "canon," what you describe is publishing's concept in interpretation of the films. The seemingly fast journey's across the galaxy are all places that have access to the major hyperroutes. But then going 'off the beaten path' can get really slow.

And welcome to the Pit!
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itsmrwilson
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
these "times" are based on what ship?



Yora wrote:
I think it narratively makes more sense to assume something like 60 to 90 minutes. And I decided to go with 90 minutes.

The game stats the Millennium Falcon as having a x0.5 Hyperspace modifier (as much sense as you can make of ".5 past lightspeed"), so the standard travel time would be 3 hours.


I interpreted this as:

  • Millennium Falcon takes ~90 minutes to get from Tatooine to Alderaan
  • MF has a x 0.5 multiplier
  • the base time for a x1 hyperdrive is 3 hours, or 90 / 0.5
  • a x2 hyperdrive would take 6 hours



Whill wrote:
Although it is official policy that no published hyperspace travel times are "canon," what you describe is publishing's concept in interpretation of the films. And welcome to the Pit!


I wish they'd push for just a little more consistency from script to script, but what can you do?

And thanks!
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can it be that some lanes are "easier" to travel and as such .

What I mean is that the trip to alderaan from tattooine (180 mins normally)
could be that fast becuse of a "good hypespace lane" while less "good" lanes may make the same parsec distance take longer.

Not sure how to word it.

Flacon 0.5
Tatooine to Alderaan 90 mins in "good hyperdrive lane"
Tatooine to any other planet with the "eacat" same distance maybe takes 180 mins even with the falcon, due to "factors" and how the hyperdrive lane is layed out
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itsmrwilson
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can it be that some lanes are "easier" to travel and as such .


I don't disagree with that premise at all. It makes much more sense to imagine that even different sections of the various hyperlanes are easier and harder to travel. I think it's just a matter of how complicated you want to get and coming up with a quick average. Probably the Hydian Way is easier to travel near Kuat than way out at Eadu.

Same with the various multipliers on hyperdrives. Surely there are hyperdrives out there with a 0.6875x multiplier or a 0.8921x multiplier. It's just way faster to multiply or divide by 2.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have "Major" hyperspace lane.

Rimma Trade Route,
Perlemian Trade Route
Corellian Run
Corellian Trade Spine
Hydian Way

These "labeled" major Hyperspace lanes, I can imagine being seen as the "norm"
Using a lesser one, may incure longer travel time (reduced slightly by a good drive), and enforcing astrogation checks to "get standard time"

basically a "normal" hyperdrive lane will give a +5 to general astrogation checks.
A less travelled one, lets call it a minor lane will incure a -10 to the astrogation check to get "normal time", a failure (maybe a degree of failure) will result in a longer hyperspace travel time.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsmrwilson wrote:
Whill wrote:
Although it is official policy that no published hyperspace travel times are "canon," what you describe is publishing's concept in interpretation of the films. And welcome to the Pit!


I wish they'd push for just a little more consistency from script to script, but what can you do?

And thanks!

Ships travel at the speed of plot. And we do have some leeway because travel times are mostly implied in the films and not explicit. Plus, script to script doesn't have the exact same journeys with anywhere near explicit times, so I feel publishing's solution of there being slower minor routes off of the major ones pretty much works. The difficulty is mainly for us GMs in trying to maintain a campaign universe consistent with the films and itself.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace_route

Both the canon and the legends here go into the various differnt lanes.

In the legend section, it is stated that on many of the non major lanes, there are several real space "interruptions" goinf from nav point to nav point.

I am sure something can be done rules wise around this, maybe regarding astrogation, both +/- to the skill check
and maybe a "forced" roll or even several rolls
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ThrorII
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are rules I've adopted, found in the 1E part of the Pit:

https://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7510
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itsmrwilson
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThrorII wrote:
These are rules I've adopted, found in the 1E part of the Pit:


Nice! I think the base times listed in the rulebook are still too slow, so for my personal preference I'd maybe cut them in half and round down. But I really like how easy your method is to eyeball stuff quickly. I'd forgotten all about the charts in the back of the 1e book and had to go grab mine off the shelf.
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ThrorII
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsmrwilson wrote:
ThrorII wrote:
These are rules I've adopted, found in the 1E part of the Pit:


Nice! I think the base times listed in the rulebook are still too slow, so for my personal preference I'd maybe cut them in half and round down. But I really like how easy your method is to eyeball stuff quickly. I'd forgotten all about the charts in the back of the 1e book and had to go grab mine off the shelf.


Yeah the 1e core book says "days", but was revised to "hours" in the 1.5 book. I like the "hours" timeframe.
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