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lecher000
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 Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:51 pm Post subject: Lightsaber Combat Requiring Fatigue To Stay Up |
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What do you all think about this as an alternative way of covering Lightsaber Combat?
Basically it requires the regular rolls to succeed in "bringing it up", and counts as an action unto itself, but once it is up the character is considered to be in a "focused state" and no longer counts towards their total action count. Instead, for every 5 minutes it remains up, he's required to make a Moderate Stamina check or suffer from Fatigue. Alternatively, he can expend a Force point in order to bypass this, exemplifying his channeling of the Force to keep him steady.
EDIT UPDATE:
In order to "bring up" Lightsaber Combat, the regular dice are rolled for difficulty, but how many rounds you can keep it up without being affected by fatigue is equal to the amount of dice you have in Stamina. So if you have 3D Stamina, you can keep Lightsaber Combat up for 3 rounds before needing to roll for it.
On top of this, to balance things out, the first Stamina roll is Easy difficulty. If you have no dice in Stamina then you use Strength.
If one succumbs to exhaustion, instead of collapsing they instead recover 1D from the fatigue penalty and cannot enter Lightsaber Combat until they have completely recovered from their fatigue and had a short rest.
Last edited by lecher000 on Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:02 am; edited 3 times in total |
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pakman
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Fascinating concept - and I am messing with fatigue in my game.
However - 5 min? That is forever in a game where a combat round is 6 seconds.
I don't see it applying very often.
Just a thought.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I came up with something along those lines as part of an expanded version of Dueling Blades, but it's in dire need of a re-write. Based on suggestions from some others, I'd go with setting a baseline for Stamina, say, 3 per D, plus any pips, then just track the number of rounds/minutes. Once the combat has gone on for that number of rounds, then start having the character roll Stamina. Of course, the Force is also going to be providing an invigorating and sustaining effect so long as the character is calling on it, and there may be gaps for verbal sparring / exposition where the character won't really be fighting, and might actually get a little bit of a rest.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | Fascinating concept - and I am messing with fatigue in my game.
However - 5 min? That is forever in a game where a combat round is 6 seconds.
I don't see it applying very often.
Just a thought. |
Agreed. Every five rounds, now that may make sense.
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lecher000
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | Fascinating concept - and I am messing with fatigue in my game.
However - 5 min? That is forever in a game where a combat round is 6 seconds.
I don't see it applying very often.
Just a thought. |
Oh, well, I was operating under the assumption that some players keep it active for chase sequences and long extended segments on enemy cruisers, hostile environments, and what-not. It usually saves time to have them roll to bring it "up" and then after once they've accomplished the mission/objective and rest, it "powers down".
If we're operating on per-encounter rules then sure I would probably make it every 4 rounds. |
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lecher000
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I came up with something along those lines as part of an expanded version of Dueling Blades, but it's in dire need of a re-write. Based on suggestions from some others, I'd go with setting a baseline for Stamina, say, 3 per D, plus any pips, then just track the number of rounds/minutes. Once the combat has gone on for that number of rounds, then start having the character roll Stamina. Of course, the Force is also going to be providing an invigorating and sustaining effect so long as the character is calling on it, and there may be gaps for verbal sparring / exposition where the character won't really be fighting, and might actually get a little bit of a rest. |
I read some of your post and that's actually a pretty clever way of handling it. Instead, the amount of rounds you can go without have to roll for Stamina is equal to the number of rounds equal to the number of dice you have for Stamina, and instead of starting at Moderate difficulty, it starts at Easy difficult. |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| lecher000 wrote: | Oh, well, I was operating under the assumption that some players keep it active for chase sequences and long extended segments on enemy cruisers, hostile environments, and what-not. It usually saves time to have them roll to bring it "up" and then after once they've accomplished the mission/objective and rest, it "powers down".
If we're operating on per-encounter rules then sure I would probably make it every 4 rounds. |
An alternate method would be to run with Danger Sense up, since it alerts the character to attacks the round before they happen. That would give the character an extra round to split the two rolls needed to bring up Lightsaber Combat. In fact, I'd be inclined to allow the character's Danger Sense roll to count toward the Sense roll for LSC. That way, they'd only have to roll Control and Lightsaber once the combat round started.
Alternately, if the character has yet to take the action that would trigger the attack (as in, the shooter won't open fire until the character turns the corner into a corridor or alley, or steps out from behind a tree, the character can use the heads-up from Danger Sense to take a little more time to raise the power properly.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I like the general idea of this, and find it annoying the way the RAW has all of these 'keep up' powers, which makes things incredibly difficult.
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pakman
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | I like the general idea of this, and find it annoying the way the RAW has all of these 'keep up' powers, which makes things incredibly difficult. |
Out of curiosity what part do you find difficult.
The concept of them, or keeping track of them in the game, or some other design factor?
(I am in the process of re-working force powers so very interested in the perspectives of others).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Maybe he thinks they should be more like spells in adnd, where once you 'cast them', they last a set duration....
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | | DougRed4 wrote: | | I like the general idea of this, and find it annoying the way the RAW has all of these 'keep up' powers, which makes things incredibly difficult. |
Out of curiosity what part do you find difficult.
The concept of them, or keeping track of them in the game, or some other design factor?
(I am in the process of re-working force powers so very interested in the perspectives of others). |
I'm playing a Jedi for the first time in a game; my character is Breha Organa Solo, the daughter of Han and Leia.
The GM already allowed me to have better Force skills than the default of a starting character with RAW: Breha has a 3D Control, 4D Sense, and 2D Alter.
Even then, the MAP makes it incredibly hard to do many things. I have her use Concentration to get a bonus, but even then there's no guarantee she'll succeed (adding Concentration means a bonus 4D, but I have to get a 6 on 2D because of the MAP, and that's only because she can usually remain calm during the attempt).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Having it be hard to get force powers up, because of maps, is a FEATURE of the game... ITS supposed to be hard, otherwise every power would just be a 'cast and done' like spell system, similar to adnd.
AND MAPS make things hard for everyone, NOT JUST force users.
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pakman
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | PAK:
Out of curiosity what part do you find difficult.
The concept of them, or keeping track of them in the game, or some other design factor?
(I am in the process of re-working force powers so very interested in the perspectives of others). |
| Quote: | DougRed4
The GM already allowed me to have better Force skills than the default of a starting character with RAW: Breha has a 3D Control, 4D Sense, and 2D Alter.
Even then, the MAP makes it incredibly hard to do many things. I have her use Concentration to get a bonus, but even then there's no guarantee she'll succeed (adding Concentration means a bonus 4D, but I have to get a 6 on 2D because of the MAP, and that's only because she can usually remain calm during the attempt). |
Thank you for your reply. I can understand how this can be frustrating, a lot of dice rolls, and feel like it is very difficult to get anywhere as a force user.
I am taking this into consideration in my force power update.
| Quote: | garhkal
Having it be hard to get force powers up, because of maps, is a FEATURE of the game... ITS supposed to be hard, otherwise every power would just be a 'cast and done' like spell system, similar to adnd.
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I have to say - overall - I agree with this.
My perception is that WEG wanted to make it difficult to become competent as a jedi. This however, does not meet with a lot of player's expectations.
My personal opinion is that it SHOULD be difficult to become powerful as a jedi - but I do not care for the specific mechanics to do so, nor the power curve they result in. (too slow then too powerful IMHO).
However, this is another topic entirely - and I will get back on fatigue.
Some good comments in this thread
In my game I am attempting to implement fatigue - but this is more as part of a comprehensive adjustment to methods weg has chosen to moderate force powers.
Once I get it a bit more refined, will make some posts.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Perhaps we should carry this conversation to a different thread, but I very much disagree with garhkal's take on this.
If I make a cool smuggler character that is like Han Solo, I don't feel he should struggle to be able to fire his blaster.
If I make a fantastic mechanic, I don't want her to often not be able to fix the ship, especially when there's no other factors hindering her.
Likewise, I don't think utilizing Jedi powers should be extremely difficult.
I've got a new player in my campaign that wants to play a Jedi, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Fatigue is far more interesting to me than just making it super difficult for Jedi to be able to do what Jedi do.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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While I do think fatigue rolls are appropriate for most forms of combat that require sustained effort (brawling and melee combat, for the most part), I'm less inclined to apply those same rules (or at least, not to the same degree) to lightsaber combat. While I do see lightsaber combat requiring a degree of exertion, I also see the character's physical body being rejuvenated and sustained by their connection to the Force, so the Jedi isn't going to be tiring out at the same rate as, say, a mixed martial artist in a match
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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