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D20 STAR WARS RPG dying?
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Scrawprin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: D20 STAR WARS RPG dying? Reply with quote

*** UNCONFIRMED NEWS ***
Is Wizards of the Coast giving up on D20 STAR WARS? There are rumors floating around about how WotC is no longer planning on producing new material for their version of the SWRPG. Has anyone heard more official news to confirm or deny this statement?

"Official" links to support this rumor:
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Skaff Toxian
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I have'nt heard anyhting.

Sounds.. Odd. Wizards must have mad alot of money on that. Well, that's my guess.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's all just rumors, but I think the facts speak for themselves. Wizards hasn't released a book in, what? Over a year! They have completely ignored the sure-hit chance of releasing a book at the time of Ep3 release. The general interest in Star Wars is declining steadily, and Wizards is doing nothing. To me that says they've given up on the RPG, concentrating their efforts in the more lucrative miniature and CCG markets. They still hold the license, but are not interested in publishing books. They might be stirred with the release of the TV series, but I wouldn't count on it.

Bottom line is, I don't really care. Wizards has given us some cool stuff, but I can certainly live without it.
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Endwyn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The West End Games forum has a post about how the star wars license isn't the gold mine it once was. You have to remember when WEG started there wasn't much out there for Star Wars fans. A couple books and the WEG stuff. As new material began to be printed (books, comics, ect) WEG used them as additional source material. Near the end of WEG's license days they were seeing the effects over the "over saturation" of available material out there. One of the things that made their earliest days profitable (to the degree they were) was that the books WEG printed were bought by not only gamers, but star wars fans who didn't game because it was one of the few sources of material for the universe. Now you can only target gamers, and more specifcly the ones that don't despise D20. Every other star wars fan can get their personal fix prefrence - novels, comics, video games, more movies, ect.

In the end, I won't cry if D20 doesn't print more books, I don't like D20 star wars - the feel is all wrong.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endwyn wrote:
You have to remember when WEG started there wasn't much out there for Star Wars fans. A couple books and the WEG stuff.


Actually, there was more than a couple of books when WEG started SW RPG. There was the OT novelizations, years worth of Marvel material, and the original seven purely EU adult books for the late '70s and early '80s.
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Endwyn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The novels were nothing until Timothy Zahn's Dark Empire series. I say there were a couple because they had little signifigance in the grand scheme, perhaps a couple of them were considered important. My point, as clearly illustrated, is that the amount of material about the universe back then and available now are dramaticly, gapingly different.
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Trusty
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endwyn wrote:
The novels were nothing until Timothy Zahn's Dark Empire series. I say there were a couple because they had little signifigance in the grand scheme, perhaps a couple of them were considered important. My point, as clearly illustrated, is that the amount of material about the universe back then and available now are dramaticly, gapingly different.


Timothy Zahn did the Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Horse Comics did Dar Empire. I think you had a brain fart. But anyway, I agree. No one really cared about Splinter of the Mind's eye and the Han and Lando books...and even the OT was going to dust in the late 80's early 90's when WEG really got the ball rolling.

All that said, I do not care if WOTC gives up, I (illegally) obtained their books (no guilt though, as a d6'er I am not their target audience anyway) and I am not realy impressed. They contain some dreadful writing in them. WEG books reallybring you into the "world" of SW better. WORC don't really have that...it is text book (book report) writing at best; and sloppy pish-posh yucky-yuck at worst. Even the adventure hooks (which I don't even use from WEG much, but WEG is still better) is lousy. ANd the worst part of it is that even good 'ole Bill and the other WEG boys that moved over there got lazy.

Endwyn makes the real point in stating that non-gamers liked the books because of the wealth of resource material, side stories, back stories, and just plain other stories concerning SW. Not just dry stat books... in which non-RPG "Essential Guide to this or that" or XYZ Technical Companion" books fill that gap for non-gamers anyway...and those have been around outside of WEG and WOTC for many years... It was the writing, layout, and wealth of information, stat or otherwise, that sold the books to gamers and non-gamers alike.

Personally, the only info we can get now is WOTC books, some less than impressive "Web Journals" or watever from WOTC...and of course, the EU novels...In which you can read great info on planets and technology that RPG books from WEG and WOTC haven't covered...and there are GREAT unofficial stats covering most of it...and if you aren't happy with those you can always tweak them to your liking.

But with the wealth of WEG books, and the subpar WOTC books, and all the great unofficial d6 stats and what-not available...there is already more than enough out there to keep gamers busy...and EU novels are icing on the cake. Sure not all the novels are great stories..but they all have "official" details about people, places, and things...so to speak.

All in all, at this point, there is no need for any new RPG books...as new TV and EU ook stuff comes out, there will always be experienced gamers to give a stat or two to the content of those media's "new" matierial to incoporate. If not, then do it yourself if you want it in your game. That is my opinion.

In the end, someone giving up on the RPG line shouldn't matter to anyone...except those who play d20...I am convinced that there are more d6'ers out there than d20. I mean, to prove this all you need to do is look at the amount of D20 to D6 stuff converted compared to the very little D6 to D20 conversions...Either that, or too many D20'ers have too little scope involed in their games...but I doubt it. I say SW D6 is bigger and more alive than we can possibly know about on this forum. And with all the material out there, I can't see how anyone could be stuck without material for their game.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, bottom line is, you don't need new book releases to keep your game going. The RPG is not one of those insidious games in which unless you "collect them all" your game will suck. I started playing in 1996, I think. And with WEG going under and us living in Brazil, all my group ever had until 2000 was the 2RE Rulebook and GM Screen. In 2000 the pdfs started to pop up and now I have every book. But when we had no other books, the gaming sessions flowed just as well, and were just as much fun. RPGs are meant for people with imagination, and that means we can make up whatever we want for the game, and assign stats for that on the spot. It's nice to have a book on smugglers, but you can do about just as well on a smuggling campaign without it.

All you need is a rulebook, the rest is a bonus. If d20ers are thinking about dropping the game because Wizards abandoned it, then they are crappy gamers at best....
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Argamoth
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like it if they could re-print some of the older books. But there's probably little chance of that happening.
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if a POD site would do something like that?
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
RPGs are meant for people with imagination, and that means we can make up whatever we want for the game, and assign stats for that on the spot.


Gry hit it on the head right here. Gamers should be people with imagination. Don't get me wrong; it's GREAT to have all these books at our disposal. But if you couldn't play the game without anything but the rulebook and perhaps GM screen, then you need to work on your imaginative skills. Try reading some of the books and really picturing what's being described. Perhaps pick up The Illustrated Star Wars Universe so you can get some ideas of what some of the sweeping images available in this world look like.

Or perhaps just put away some of your books and play with the basics. Stretch your mind!

Oh. And one other thing. LONG LIVE D6!!![/i]
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Trusty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:

Or perhaps just put away some of your books and play with the basics. Stretch your mind!
[/i]


Well, that is good advice, but the best advice is take the wealth of resource material in the books and discard the rest (i.e. adventure outlines, or, like I do, the entire canon).

I like having the material there, because they are great reads and they are inspirational. You can modify and tweak it all to make it fit to your liking. I sometimes read the adventures and think "that is a good idea" or that is a great setting" and just work my own ideas into it and discard theirs unless I want to keep some of it.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trusty wrote:
Well, that is good advice, but the best advice is take the wealth of resource material in the books and discard the rest (i.e. adventure outlines, or, like I do, the entire canon).

I like having the material there, because they are great reads and they are inspirational. You can modify and tweak it all to make it fit to your liking. I sometimes read the adventures and think "that is a good idea" or that is a great setting" and just work my own ideas into it and discard theirs unless I want to keep some of it.


And that's a good idea as well... Unless you're a brand new GM. You have to cut your teeth on something. Well, some do; others are ready from the get-go to be making their own adventures, and some even already have ideas for them- they just need some guidance, which is where the resources come in.
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D20... very, VERY setting specific. Horribly narrow in scope. And the versions of D20 put out by Wizards of the Coast tend to be very contradictory, and difficult to play in.

D6. Very variable. Wonderfully intuitive once you get to know it. Took me a month, 4 sessions, and one read over of the book. Now I run all of my games in D6, all of them. It works for everything, with almost no tweaking.

And that is with the regular 2nd edition rules. The RnE rules I didn't find quite as appealing, and WEGs other latest products are rather offensive to my senses.

D6 just is far superior. End of story.
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Trusty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:

And that's a good idea as well... Unless you're a brand new GM. You have to cut your teeth on something. Well, some do; others are ready from the get-go to be making their own adventures, and some even already have ideas for them- they just need some guidance, which is where the resources come in.


Right. I have been a GM for only four months. When we decided to game, we set a start date and I gave myself three weeks to prepare. They wanted to play once a week with the same characters and have a long, long, long detailed campaign. So I took my three weeks, and also about two or three hours a week before the game, and crafted something rather fun I think. It is a good mix of my own ideas and inspiration drawn from the sourcebooks and modules. But we keep a strict timeline, where they end one session is where they start the next session. So I try to stay ahead and keep things moving along.

I recommend every GM to absorb all the material they can before beginning a campaign so that they'll have all the bases covered. And also recommend to the the www.nav-computer.com as the map to use (and add your own sectors in there as well as refer to Wiki to find the planets that aren't on it using their descriptions of where it is located) so they can keep track of where they are in relation to the galaxy and where they are going.

Anyway, GM'ing is what you make of it I guess.
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