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Clone Trooper Armor (Mark I, II, ARC, Commando..)
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, those look pretty good. What you don't want to do is fall victim to the "making the clones better at everything" that many people are prone to want to do. Think about it, if the clones were that good at everything, and if their armor was better than the stormtrooper armor, why in the world would they ever "go backwards" in the technology? The Empire didn't get weaker as time went on, it got stronger, so things should have stayed the equivalent or gotten better, not gotten worse.

With that said, I actually preferred the original ideas you had for the armor, Gry, but since you're asking for everyone's ideas, I guess you'll have to make a version that most people can agree with. Just keep doing what you're doing, and make sure you don't start blowing the clone stuff out of proportion to the "newer" stuff of the original movies.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. If the Stormtrooper armor, is the evolution of the Clone Armor, it has to be better. The only case where a clone armor might be better is with a "specialty" armor, like the Clone Commando. An armor that saw very little production and was prohibitively expensive. Both the Mk1 and the Mk2 are worse than the Stormie armor. The SCUBA is worse than the Seatrooper (except that the SCUBA has a propulsion system), the ARC is worse than the Storm Commando. And even the Katarn armor still has worse MFTAS, breathing system, macrobinoculars, and stealth than a Storm Commando.

Grimace, what do you mean that you preferred my original ideas. The stats posted here are pretty much that, except for all of them having polarized lenses (figured it was really the black lenses that granted that, not the shape) and the new gadgets of the Katarn armor....
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking excellent Gry. I can't wait to see the completed books!
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:

...except for all of them having polarized lenses (figured it was really the black lenses that granted that, not the shape) and the new gadgets of the Katarn armor....


That's essentially what I was talking about. I thought you had rattled a few ideas off in your first post, but I can't scroll down far enough to find the "first" post of this thread while I'm in this particular screen. Basically, though, it was generally to keep the armor less effective by limited MFTAS, keeping the "self contained" body glove thing exclusive to the stormies, and perhaps giving or taking away the polarized lenses on certain types of armor. That's what I was saying I preferred.

Basically, I just get tired of people always trying to make the clone troopers out to be better than stormtroopers in every way. Both skills and equipment. I'll make concessions, and say they may have been more skilled, but I won't go quietly into the night when it comes to their equipment.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, people seem to easily disregard the 30 years of techincal development from Ep1 to Ep4. Things should evolve, especially during a galactic war. There's nothing to boom technological advancement like a good war... Although I agree that specialty item, made in small scale and with exhorbitant prices might be actually better than mass produced, cost-effective items from a later, more advanced, age.

The only thing I really dropped from my original ideas was the downgrading of polarized lenses. It just seemed to me that those black lenses just had to be flash-preventing...
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Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that it matters in the end. "I can't see a thing in this helmet." Twisted Evil

They even mention that in Rebel Assult II!
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Argamoth
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that 'better' doesn't mean it deals more damage or protects better. I'd bet a machine gun or a crossbow could still kill a storm trooper, the advantage in new weapons is cost, weight, durability, etc. Perhaps trooper armor got weaker over the years, but at a trade of material, cost, and being able to get out of the way faster.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, it's a very very old topic, I'm new on forum and I'm reading old posts, and I think there's something to add here.
I found that Gry used stats presented here in his "Equipment Stats", I read info about these armors in wookiepedia and I think these stats might be slightly changed to be more consistent.
There's a number of valuable notes about armors, like Mk.II upgrades: "polarized lenses, padding, sensors, and stronger, lighter armor plates", so it looks like Mk.I had no polarized lenses, no sensors (no MFTAS, I think), was even more bulky (-1D+1 DEX) and weaker (1D+2/1D). Also Mk.II supported "more modular attachments", so Mk.I could have reduced equipment (as Mk.II minus: high-tension wire, grappling hooks, spare comlink, 1 medpac).
Wookiepedia also says that: "ARC troopers wore Phase I armor with command pauldrons and kamas. They commonly had a periscope rangefinder attachment on the right temple of their helmets", it looks for me like Mk.I armor + crippled MFTAS (only +2D to hit against moving target, or maybe completely different kind of stuff).
Also - I played Republic Commando and I have few remarks about Katarn armor: auto-cleaning may be essential in some situations (mechanics: all "reduced visibility" penalties due to splashes on the visor are automatically removed at the beginning of next round). Also, IMO this suit should stand more than 5 minutes of vacuum (30 minutes or even hour). Next, Bacta Misting Stations aren't part of armor, armor has only an interface for them and a trooper has to "dock" at them to get healed. Last, Resusitator is a nice device too, it can be used on other trooper to bring him back to consciousness (Easy first aid roll), but all wound effects stays (D6 Space says that Incapacitated characters have -3D to all actions, Mortally Wounded are not able to perform any actions but wail and eventually crawl).

And the final word - 30 years is not much (Republic exists over 20000 years), so IMO imperial technology isn't drastically better than clone wars tech. But few words about Mk.I: "Its inconvenience was due to the Kaminoans' knowledge, or lack thereof, of Human anatomy.".
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masque
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupteq wrote:
But few words about Mk.I: "Its inconvenience was due to the Kaminoans' knowledge, or lack thereof, of Human anatomy.".

Which is stupid, since they created the clones in the first place. You'd think they would have had ample opportunity to study the anatomy of what they were making.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masque wrote:
Which is stupid, since they created the clones in the first place. You'd think they would have had ample opportunity to study the anatomy of what they were making.


My opinion here is that it may be not so stupid - Kaminoans had no experience with human race before, so they designed an armor using computer simulations and Jango as the only model (clones were too young), but later (when they got feedback from grown-up clones) they noticed that armor isn't perfect (because of not perfect simulations). There was no time to produce new armors, because some little green grandpa took all the clones to the war Laughing
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, it's plausible that the Mk1 model was a little clumsy, and was later perfected into the Mk2. Raising the DEX penalty by one pip seems reasonable. Unfortunately, when I created those stats, there wasn't much info available so I had to go with my own common sense.
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