| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Jawa Juice
Cadet
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Chicago
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
 |
|
RE: The restraining bolt issue, there are restraints droids are pre-programmed with (e.g. C-3PO cannot impersonate a God or most non battle droids cannot harm organic beings) Restraining bolts only apply additional programming restraints not inherent in the droid (e.g. To allow force R2-D2 and C-3PO to accept the commands of the Lars homestead despite the illegitimate nature of their sale from the Jawas.
What a droid can be told to do depends on who it perceives to be its owner, R2-D2 clearly continued to believe Captain Antilles was its owner after they were sold to the Lars homestead, while 3PO seemed to accept the sale as legit (Possibly because the Lars ownership from circa episode II was not erased from his memory banks). After ANH the droids seemed to have a greater degree of free will maybe perceiving their owners to be the Rebellion at large.
And of course some droids may not have any free-will or ownership programmed restraints e.g. IG-88 or 4-LOM |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Ankhanu wrote: |
You add up the Attribute, Skill and bonus ability die available on the base model, and if they total <=25D, it's playable as a PC. If they total more, it's too powerful. |
Not necessarily too powerful. Some alien species have more than 18D attributes and 7D skills, and the 2E rulebook specifically addresses offsetting higher stats with situational disadvantages. The lack of rights and general distrust that droids face could be reasonable counterbalances to higher stats. |
In general we dont use ready-made templates for organics, so the same applies with droid. Just add up those 25D, just like with an organic (however, the freedom of distributing those dice may need some GM guidance). However, if one wanted to play a 'stock' droid with too many dice, it would be easy enough to remove some. Just a few burned out circuits and poof, that security skill is history.. Of course it can be repaired, but new skills can also be bought for the droid so that poses no balance issue.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | In general we dont use ready-made templates for organics, so the same applies with droid. Just add up those 25D, just like with an organic (however, the freedom of distributing those dice may need some GM guidance). However, if one wanted to play a 'stock' droid with too many dice, it would be easy enough to remove some. Just a few burned out circuits and poof, that security skill is history.. Of course it can be repaired, but new skills can also be bought for the droid so that poses no balance issue. |
I also don't use templates for organics, but it makes a lot of sense to use standard droids... they're not templates like for an organic, it's what is actually produced. The standard droids are what are out in the galaxy; they're mass produced and sold all over the place... this is where PC droids are coming from; they don't have the same variability that organics do. The "same" droid can be found all over the galaxy, the same cannot be said for organics; similar themes persist, but, droids are pretty much cookie cutter, except where some anomalies occur (often as the result of persistent memory cores).
Don't get me wrong, designing droids for use (PC or non) is cool and all, but, looking at stock droids as analogous to organic character templates is a bit flawed; they're not the same... it's like playing clones, but everyone has radically different stats and backgrounds, it doesn't make a tonne of sense  Building your own droids is fine, but, it's not particularly common for a droid to evolve into a PC, and it would seen statistically more likely in a common model than in some rare special case model, know what I mean?
We have used the broken droid concept to weaken powerful stock models too; reduce or remove some skills, remove attachments... it's all good, and can make for a pretty interesting history too!
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14341
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Very true, and even those rare droids who DO have persistent memories are still circuited the same.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Very true, and even those rare droids who DO have persistent memories are still circuited the same. |
Yeah, they just haven't had a software/memory reset. They're still the same physical droids (except in some even rarer cases where hardware mods are implemented).
Personally, I find the cookie-cutter aspect of droid PCs to be an interesting counterpoint to playing an organic. Every organic is so unique... droids really aren't, which provides some interesting opportunities.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ankhanu wrote: |
I also don't use templates for organics, but it makes a lot of sense to use standard droids... they're not templates like for an organic, it's what is actually produced. |
But given the size and diversity of the galaxy market, there are surely a million different stock droid types. Enough to cover any variation a PC can come up with (especially if the droid keeps mostly within a theme).
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I LOVE it when players want to play a droid. They are very different than organics and add a lot to the game. And they sometimes can do things organics cannot...operate without air, in a vacuum, detect energy emmissions, etc. This has saved many a rebel group, especially since they can start with very high levels of skills. Droids are not limited to the "two die over attribute" rule. Of course, a truely wicked Director can start a droid with no skills above the base - representing a brand new droid that has no experience because it's just been activated "right out of the box".
I require all droids to follow Asimov's Three Laws:
A droid may not injure a sentient being or, through inaction, allow a sentient being to come to harm.
A droid must obey orders given it by sentient beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A droid must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
Droids ARE property of one of the charatcers and must have his permission to upgrade because droids cannot own any money. Commands from the droid's owner over rule all orders from other sentients. The cooperation between master player and droid player should be established before the droid player begins to roll up a droid.
As for restraining bolts, memory wipes (resetting the character back to zero experience), and recharging; that's just part of the package.
_________________
Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14341
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
On Memory wiping.
Since by the rules, that resets a droid back to factory settings... would a PC droid who 'suffered one' lose all those CP/credits he invested for those software upgrades?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | On Memory wiping.
Since by the rules, that resets a droid back to factory settings... would a PC droid who 'suffered one' lose all those CP/credits he invested for those software upgrades? |
All? Maybe not. Some? Definitely.
It depends on whether the new skills are hard coded in such that they survive a wipe. It seems like the goal is to remove any personality quirks. It does seem odd that an owner would want to wipe out skill use so as to have a factory version lower skill droid.
Maybe extra dice in factory issued skills remain, but new skills "learned" are wiped if they are not part of the factory package. Possibly new skills can be acquired and then burned in or hard keyed into the droid. Those skills would stay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lancil
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 74
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | On Memory wiping.
Since by the rules, that resets a droid back to factory settings... would a PC droid who 'suffered one' lose all those CP/credits he invested for those software upgrades?
|
All str skills are obviously permanent. All the other skills depend on how they were leaned. Droids can progress in two ways. The normal chr way with chr points, and you can have new skills and skill levels added and raised with credits and a programmer. I would say that the former would go away with a memory wipe, and the later would be permanent.
At least that makes sense to me.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | On Memory wiping.
Since by the rules, that resets a droid back to factory settings... would a PC droid who 'suffered one' lose all those CP/credits he invested for those software upgrades? |
Some skills and attribute dice come from hardware upgrades. I suppose I would allow a droid PC to use CP for skill upgrades at no credit cost, but those would be "soft" upgrades. If he/she wanted to permanently upgrade, they would have to buy hardware to accompany the CP-funded skill increase. Any memory wipe wouldn't change hardware-based skills.
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A rule that hardware upgrades survive a normal wipe, while CP only upgrades do not seems like a reasonable way of handling this. An owner who pays for upgrades is protected from losing his investment when he has the droid wiped and presumably he is willing to lose any CP increases, in part because NPC droids probably don't earn m(any) CPs.
Thanks for thinking this out Lancil and Fallon Kell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14341
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting.. 3 similar methods...
So the more expensive Credit+cp cost improvements are hardwired, while just using CP (if a droid pc) is just software...
BUT what of doing it for non PC droids.. those just take Credits to get the software/programmer..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zarm R'keeg
Commander
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 481
Location: PA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I found a droid PC to be one of the most popular characters we've yet run. When he died (as it turns out, a balancing act over a pit of acid is not the most droid-friendly scenario- especially when said RA-7 droid is carrying an R2 across in his arms- which he dropped into the acid to try and save himself and failed, so he didn't exactly die a hero... ), one of the other PCs even got a tatoo of him (on the character, not the player), and his hand (replaced by a ligthsaber and subsequently discarded) has become the origin of a new plot thread/quest even over a year later. I think droid PCs do indeed offer an even greater potential than humans for interesting character types, specifically because their nature is so different. (If they're programmed not to have an aversion to violence, develope a prediliction for light repeating blaster cannons, and manage to outshoot a Dark jedi's lightsaber parry TWICE- all the better... ) Heck yes- droid PCs are awesome- and, if you don't like having them around... well, between low dexterity and low body strength, they probably won't be around too long anyway.
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com
Hard core OT, all the way! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14341
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Though if they are playing a droid for combat, they can just push their 25d starting into high str/dex, good skills, and low everything else, the buy their way up a lot easier than pcs...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
