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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12058
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
Yes, though on the plus side many sources can make for a more complete feel.


Unless those sources overly complicate things by contradicting themselves, as seems to be the case here.


Quote:
Yes that is because one source is based on real world gyrojets and the other is based on fictitious technology so it only really has to stay true to the rule of cool. I considered snipping the bolter source down to leave out the contradiction but I decided I didn't want to be the sort of guy to alter my 'facts' to seem more right. What I took from those two sources was that the muzzle velocity of a bolter should be fairly low and while a close range hit could still punch through soft tissue it wouldn't be certain and it wouldn't explode.


That's not what your quote said. It said that "At point-blank ranges the bolt will instead pass through the target and explode behind it, though its sheer size and velocity still makes it capable of causing damage." There is a world of difference in meaning between "will" (mandatory) and "could" (advisory or optional). What that means to me is that, when fired at point blank range, bolt shells will always have enough kinetic force to punch straight through a human body and detonate on the other side. That means that something generates a powerful initial kick to clear the round from the gun before the gyro-jets kick in.


Quote:
To me the solution is fairly obvious if fired at point blank range (1-3 metres) then the damage is automatically reduced by 2D and a complication on the wild dice becomes a catastrophic failure as the bolt ends up ignighting in the breach and warping the gun barrel (or something similar). Because all the technology is in the ammo and the gun is basically just a flimsy tube (gyrojets don't need the strength to withstand a typical bullet launch) I'd lower the price of the guns but keep the ammo the same.


But bolters aren't just flimsy tubes; they're big and bulky and heavy enough to be used as an improvised weapon in close combat. The opposite side of the coin is that a bolter could be sufficiently advanced that it includes an optical ranging system that pre-programs the fusing on each shell when it is fired, or even a fuse programming option that allows the gunner to select proximity or delayed detonation (combining the standard and fragmentation bolts into a single round). Ultimately, I find I am less interested in what the fluff says about bolters than I am in what the rules say, and the only rule that points to bolters not being as effective at point blank range is a rule that applies equally to all non-close combat ranged weapons, be they auto-guns, lasguns or shuriken catapults, none of which fire ammunition requiring an armed fuse.

There is a deeper issue at root here, IMO. Should a conversion stat for Warhammer weapons and technology adhere faithfully to the original weapon as featured in the Warhammer universe? Or should the idea behind it be taken and modified to some degree so that it better fits the SWU? I've already taken some liberties with the design by combining bolters and shotguns into the same weapon (or atleast the same ammo types), so how far is too far?


Esoomian wrote:
There are a lot of rules for 40K and the numerous codexes do not help. The hellfire shell is something only scouts can do because they're sometimes called upon to sneak into a tyranid hive node and disrupt things. Technically all heavy bolters could do it but only the scouts get supplied the shells.


Almost sounds more like a sniper weapon than something used one at a time from a cyclic-rate weapon...


Quote:
With your edit I think you'd be better off making what you call the Heavy Bolter into the Storm Bolter which fires the same caliber as the other bolt pistol and bolter but fires more rapidly and having a different statline for the Heavy Bolter to represent the larger bolts it fires.


Unless something has changed in later versions, my understanding was that the Storm Bolter was reserved for use by Terminator Marines in Dreadnought Armor. An alternate solution (since I've combined bolters and shotguns) would be to make my version of the Heavy Bolter into the Shotcannon from the Battlefleet Gothic fiction, which was essentially a rapid-fire shotgun used by naval armsmen. It'd be a simple enough switch to call it a Boltcannon, then come up with improved stats for a Heavy Bolter.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I plan to post several different stats that inflict flame damage, using the rules concocted in another topic. Rather than repeat them on every appropriate stat, I'm going to post the general rules here. Unless otherwise noted, all flame weapons have the same effect:

FLAME DAMAGE
Weapons that inflict flame damage have the potential to set their targets on fire, inflicting damage in subsequent combat rounds. Figure damage as normal, then compare the result to the following chart:
    0-3 = Singed (treat as Stunned, no further damage)
    4-8 = Aflame (takes 3D* damage per round until extinguished) (Easy)
    9-12 = Burning (4D* per round) (Difficult)
    13-15 = Immolated (5D* per round) (Heroic)
    16+ = Incinerated (Killed)
    *plus any Auto-Fire dice that was added to the Damage roll on the initial shot.

Notes:
-Vulnerabilities:
    For calculating armor protection, flame weapons are treated as a physical attack, but the flame will generally affect the target's entire body, so any unprotected body parts will suffer full normal damage.
    Species with body fur tend to be more vulnerable to flame weapons, as hair and fur catch fire more easily than bare skin. Species with light and/or partial fur receive a -2 penalty to their Strength roll to resist flame damage, while species with thick and/or shaggy fur receive a -1D penalty.
    Droids and other inorganic species receive a +1D bonus to Strength to resist damage.


-Effects of Fire on Living Beings: A character who is Aflame or worse must roll Willpower against the Difficulty value in parenthesis at the end of each entry in the above list.
    Success = The character can ignore the fire and act normally (subject to standard damage penalties) while still aflame.
    Failure by 10 or less = The character can take no action other than attempting to put out the flames.
    Failure by more than 10 = The character is panicked and makes a minimum High Speed move away from the source of the flame damage. He is unable to attempt to fight the flames, but his comrades may attempt to tackle him and extinguish the flames themselves. Characters who are Frenzied ignore the pain from the fire, but still take damage as normal.

-Extinguishing Fire: Characters who are Aflame or worse have two options.
    1). They may ignore the fire and take damage as normal. However, the fire will still make an automatic damage roll once per round, which the character can not dodge or otherwise react to. However, if the character takes no damage for 2 consecutive rounds, the fire burns out on its own.
    2). The character may attempt to put the fire out. This requires an Easy Dexterity check against the Difficulty in parenthesis at the end of each entry on the Special Damage chart. A character's comrades may assist in beating out the flames, with each helper adding 1D to the character's Dexterity roll. Application of water or some other form of fire extinguisher adds an additional 2D to the Dexterity roll.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolter Ammunition Update:
Bleeder Option: Can be applied as an upgrade to slugs, bolts and shot shells. Infuses the warhead with toxins and anti-coagulants that worsen all wounds by increasing healing difficulty (increase Difficulty on all Healing rolls by 2D)
Incendiary Bolt: Uses the same proximity detonation as the Fragmentation Bolt, but showers the target with indendiary chemicals. Inflicts 5D Flame damage and reduces To Hit difficulty by one level. Multiple impacts from Incendiary Bolts increase overall Flame damage by 1D per additional hit.
Hellfire Bolt: Augments the warhead with toxic chemicals and acids, greatly increasing damage to living targets. Inflicts 5D normal damage, but add +2D when used against biological targets.
Null Bolt: The absolute rarest and most expensive of all bolt weapon ammo, a null bolt is the bane of Force users. While it inflicts relatively low damage, the null bolt delivers a substance of unknown origin that disrupts a target's connection to the Force (4D damage, but any character struck by a Null Bolt automatically loses a Force Point, and any Force User suffers a cumulative -1D penalty to their Force skills. The Force Point is permanently lost, but does not prevent the character from earning new points. The Force skill penalty lasts until the character completes a Natural Healing roll from any null bolt round injuries, or the duration of a Stunned result if no damage is inflicted).

EDIT: Added the Null Bolt
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Esoomian wrote:

Yes that is because one source is based on real world gyrojets and the other is based on fictitious technology so it only really has to stay true to the rule of cool. I considered snipping the bolter source down to leave out the contradiction but I decided I didn't want to be the sort of guy to alter my 'facts' to seem more right. What I took from those two sources was that the muzzle velocity of a bolter should be fairly low and while a close range hit could still punch through soft tissue it wouldn't be certain and it wouldn't explode.


That's not what your quote said. It said that "At point-blank ranges the bolt will instead pass through the target and explode behind it, though its sheer size and velocity still makes it capable of causing damage." There is a world of difference in meaning between "will" (mandatory) and "could" (advisory or optional). What that means to me is that, when fired at point blank range, bolt shells will always have enough kinetic force to punch straight through a human body and detonate on the other side. That means that something generates a powerful initial kick to clear the round from the gun before the gyro-jets kick in.


I feel that is reading a little too much into a source that can be edited by users and is fact checked against a fictional novel. However even if it is the case that it will always pass through a target at close range then it should still always be doing 2D less damage at close range.

Quote:
Quote:
To me the solution is fairly obvious if fired at point blank range (1-3 metres) then the damage is automatically reduced by 2D and a complication on the wild dice becomes a catastrophic failure as the bolt ends up igniting in the breach and warping the gun barrel (or something similar). Because all the technology is in the ammo and the gun is basically just a flimsy tube (gyrojets don't need the strength to withstand a typical bullet launch) I'd lower the price of the guns but keep the ammo the same.


But bolters aren't just flimsy tubes; they're big and bulky and heavy enough to be used as an improvised weapon in close combat. The opposite side of the coin is that a bolter could be sufficiently advanced that it includes an optical ranging system that pre-programs the fusing on each shell when it is fired, or even a fuse programming option that allows the gunner to select proximity or delayed detonation (combining the standard and fragmentation bolts into a single round). Ultimately, I find I am less interested in what the fluff says about bolters than I am in what the rules say, and the only rule that points to bolters not being as effective at point blank range is a rule that applies equally to all non-close combat ranged weapons, be they auto-guns, lasguns or shuriken catapults, none of which fire ammunition requiring an armed fuse.


In that case why have bolter projectiles explode at all? That is all fluff there are no in game stats for exploding bolts they just have a higher damage rating but no higher than a great many other solid shot guns. Thinking about the bolters in a little more detail I’d be tempted to have them do 4D impact damage and then 4D explosive damage and if the initial impact caused a wounded or better result then the explosive damage ignores armour. That to me seems more like replicating an impact followed up by a time delay explosive and it reflects the stats for a high damage low AP weapon better as heavy armour will make a character far more likely to shrug off a bolter shot as the stats intend.

Quote:
There is a deeper issue at root here, IMO. Should a conversion stat for Warhammer weapons and technology adhere faithfully to the original weapon as featured in the Warhammer universe? Or should the idea behind it be taken and modified to some degree so that it better fits the SWU? I've already taken some liberties with the design by combining bolters and shotguns into the same weapon (or at least the same ammo types), so how far is too far?


Yes I think we do have two different ideological standpoints here. I prefer to bring as much of the fluff in as possible and expand on it where needed to make the idea work in the new setting. To me it’s the fluff that makes something unique. If a Bolter was just a nondescript strength 4 weapon with a statline and no description I wouldn’t be interested at all.

Esoomian wrote:
There are a lot of rules for 40K and the numerous codexes do not help. The hellfire shell is something only scouts can do because they're sometimes called upon to sneak into a tyranid hive node and disrupt things. Technically all heavy bolters could do it but only the scouts get supplied the shells.

Quote:
Almost sounds more like a sniper weapon than something used one at a time from a cyclic-rate weapon...


More like an RPG to my mind.

Quote:
With your edit I think you'd be better off making what you call the Heavy Bolter into the Storm Bolter which fires the same caliber as the other bolt pistol and bolter but fires more rapidly and having a different statline for the Heavy Bolter to represent the larger bolts it fires.

Quote:
Unless something has changed in later versions, my understanding was that the Storm Bolter was reserved for use by Terminator Marines in Dreadnought Armor. An alternate solution (since I've combined bolters and shotguns) would be to make my version of the Heavy Bolter into the Shotcannon from the Battlefleet Gothic fiction, which was essentially a rapid-fire shotgun used by naval armsmen. It'd be a simple enough switch to call it a Boltcannon, then come up with improved stats for a Heavy Bolter.


Yeah you get Imperial Guardsman with stormbolters these days. They’re not just for Terminators any more.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
I feel that is reading a little too much into a source that can be edited by users and is fact checked against a fictional novel. However even if it is the case that it will always pass through a target at close range then it should still always be doing 2D less damage at close range.


My point is that you were misquoting a source to support your point. And I agree with you about the potential lack of reliability of using a Wiki as a source. I have examined all of my available rulebooks for WH40K, including Inquisitor and the more recent Dark Heresy, and no mention is made of the certainty of a bolt punching through a target without detonating at point blank range. As such, I can only surmise that the concept of bolt rounds punching through a target's body was included as fluff by a Black Library author attempting to add some color to his story. I can find nothing in the rules to support this, and as such, I feel my rule that reduces damage by 2D on a Wild Dice failure to be adequate and appropriate, and that's my final answer. If you feel the need to change the stats to suit your needs, you have my permission.

Quote:
In that case why have bolter projectiles explode at all?

Quote:
To me it’s the fluff that makes something unique. If a Bolter was just a nondescript strength 4 weapon with a statline and no description I wouldn’t be interested at all.


That was why I made such an effort to compile an exhaustive list of different ammunition types that can be used with a bolter. In an RPG, the various options allow a character to custom tailor his ammo load for a specific effect against a specific target. That makes it more versatile than a standard blaster, even if it is much more expensive.

My problem with using fluff to support tech is even more apparent in the SWu than it is in WH40K; an author may take artistic license and write something that sounds cool, but is not supported by the RAW, and may actually introduce needless complications when attempting to convert stats.


Esoomian wrote:
More like an RPG to my mind.


That actually does sound more appropriate. I keep leaning more towards two separate types of Heavy Bolter; one that uses the same standardized bolter ammo, and a larger weapon that fires larger, more damaging ammunition types.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, based on a private-message discussion with Esoomian, here is an updated version of the previously posted Bolter stats.

Disclaimer: This is not intended as a direct Warhammer crossover. Rather, I am using Warhammer tech to expand my SWU. As such, posted stats may not be a direct representation of that technology in the Warhammer universe.

CAPSULE: While the blaster is by far the most common weapon in the known galaxy, there are other weapons that are just as effective (if not more so) in their own way. While a variety of factors prevent these weapons from supplanting the popularity of the blaster, these weapons still have their uses. The bolter is one example. Arguably the most versatile and effective firearm in the known galaxy, it is also easily the most expensive. The primary reason for the expense is the ammunition it fires. A bolt is a highly advanced projectile incorporating a gyro-jet, an explosive warhead and a variable setting fuse. The fuse is set using a button control on the bolter's grip (although more advanced bolters may use voice command technology), and the fusing on each bolt is armed and set when it is fired. The variable fusing allows the gun's operator to optimize the weapon's effect against specific targets. Other bolt types are available, with specialized guidance systems or exotic warheads. Alternately, the bolter may also use a variety of mundane types of ammunition, but it is at its greatest effectiveness when firing bolts. What prevents the bolter from becoming more popular is its price. Bolters are easily twice as expensive as similar blaster weapons, and a full magazine of bolts can be easily twice as expensive as the bolter itself. As such, bolters are rarely seen, and are usually found in the hands of elite, well-equipped forces.


TYPES OF BOLTERS:

Type: Bolt Gun
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Bolt Gun
Ammo: 50
Cost: 2,000 (Bolts cost 100 credits each for standard bolts. Prices vary for specialized rounds).
Availability: 3, X
Range:
    Bolt: 3-60/120/300
    Slug: 5-20/50/100
    Shot: 2-5/10/25
Damage: Varies by ammo type

Type: Bolt Pistol
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Bolt Pistol
Ammo: 25
Cost: 1,500 (Bolts cost 100 credits each for standard bolts. Prices vary for specialized rounds).
Availability: 3, X
Range:
    Bolt: 3-10/30/120
    Slug: 2-8/20/40
    Shot: 2-4/6/10
Damage: Varies by ammo type

Type: Heavy Bolter
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Heavy Bolter
Ammo: 200
Cost: 4,000 (Bolts cost 100 credits each for standard bolts. Prices vary for specialized rounds).
Availability: 3, X
Rapid-Fire: 2D
Range:
    Bolt: 3-60/150/400
    Slug: 3-30/60/130
    Shot: 2-6/12/30
Damage: Varies by ammo type.
Special: Due to the bulky nature of this weapon, the gunner suffers a -1D penalty ( in addition to any MAPs) if he moves and fires in the same round.


TYPES OF AMMUNITION:

Bolt (All costs are as Standard Bolt, unless otherwise noted):
Special: On a Damage roll Wild Dice Failure, the bolt’s mass reactive detonator either malfunctions or does not detect sufficient mass to detonate. Reduce damage by 2D, and any specialized warheads do not take effect. This occurs automatically, and does not require a confirmation roll. However, if the shooter calls his shot (i.e. aims for a specific body part at increased difficulty) or hits his target with multiple rounds (using the Rapid-Fire rules), the Wild Dice effect must re-roll to confirm that the bolt did not detonate.
Standard -
    Standard setting (Delayed fuse detonates the bolt inside the target, inflicting 6D Damage)
    Fragmentation (Proximity fuse detonates the round before it hits the target, showering the target with shrapnel. 5D damage, +1D to Firearms).
    Penetrator (Contact detonation has better penetration against armor, 5D Damage, reduces target's armor effectiveness by 2D)
Stunner (80 credits each) - As Fragmentation, but inflicts Stun damage
Haywire (80 credits each) - As Fragmentation, but replaces explosive charge with a miniature EMP generator that is devastating to droids and electronics (4D damage to organic targets, 7D to droids and electronics, +1D to Firearms)
Executioner (Warhead Type + 100 credits each) - Upgraded bolt with a homing guidance system that tracks targets while in flight (Standard damage and fusing by warhead type, +3D to Firearms, but gunner must aim for 1 round to give the bolt a chance to lock on).
Stalker (Warhead Type + 50 credits each)- Replaces gyro-jet propulsion with compressed gas and a smaller warhead to greatly reduce the noise and flash of weapons fire (-1D to Standard damage, but bolter fire can only be detected on a Moderate Perception or Search roll, and only if within 20 meters of the shooter).
Incendiary (80 credits each) - Uses the same proximity detonation as the Fragmentation Bolt, but showers the target with incendiary chemicals. Inflicts 5D Flame damage, +1D to Firearms. Multiple impacts from Incendiary Bolts increase overall Flame damage by 1D per additional hit.
Hellfire (150 credits each) - Standard fusing only. Augments the warhead with toxic chemicals and acids, greatly increasing damage to living targets. Inflicts 4D normal damage, but add +3D when used against biological targets. In addition, targets struck with Hellfire bolts suffer from increased healing difficulties (+2D Difficulty on all Healing rolls, +1 for every additional hit) due to the toxins and anti-coagulants mixed in with the warhead.
Null (4, X. Not Available For Sale) - The absolute rarest and most expensive of all bolt weapon ammo, a null bolt is the bane of Force users. While it inflicts relatively low damage, the null bolt delivers a substance of unknown origin that disrupts a target's connection to the Force (4D damage, but any character struck by a Null Bolt automatically loses a Force Point, and any Force User suffers a cumulative -1D penalty to their Force skills. The Force Point is permanently lost, but does not prevent the character from earning new points. The Force skill penalty lasts until the character completes a Natural Healing roll from any null bolt round injuries, or the duration of a Stunned result if no damage is inflicted).

Slug (25-100 for a box of 50, depending on type and availability):
Standard - Simple solid metal slug (5D damage)
Baton - "Beanbag" round (5D Stun)
EDIT:Sabot - Hyper-velocity, fin-stabilized dart enclosed in a sabot that falls away after firing. Low relative damage, but offers better armor penetration (4D+1 Damage, negates 2D of armor protection)
Dum-Dum - Designed to fragment inside the target, causing greater damage (5D+2 damage to unarmored targets, but is -1D to damage against armored targets)
Man-Stopper - Much more powerful round that inflicts heavy damage, but is harder to control (6D+1 damage, -1D to Firearms)
Cortosis (4, X. Not Available For Sale)- Essentially Dum-Dum slug, with the added twist that, should a Jedi parry a Cortosis slug with his lightsaber, it shuts down automatically, and cannot be reactivated until the beginning of the next round.

Shot (25-100 for a box of 50, depending on type and availability):
Damage: Varies by Range and Shot Type
Assault*: 0 (+0D)/ 1 (+1) / 2 (+1D) / 4 (+2D)
Scatter - Standard shotgun round (Damage: 5D / 4D+2 / 4D / 3D)
Beehive - Replaces ball shot with rubber balls for non-lethal damage. (As Scatter, but inflicts Stun damage)
Flechette - Replaces standard ball shot with a cluster of metallic needles for superior armor penetration (As Scatter, but reduces target's armor protection by 1D)
EDIT:Breacher - Replaces ball shot with HESH (high-explosive squash head) micro-explosives that detonate on contact. As Scatter, but with a 1D bonus to damage (2D when used against hard targets) (100 credits / box of 20. 3, X)
EDIT:Mono-Wire - Replaces ball shot with a coil of mono-wire strands that unspools in flight, cutting through any solid object in their path. As Scatter, but with a 1D bonus to damage (2D when used against soft targets). (100 credits / box of 20. 3, X)

*New Rule: Assault. On a successful hit (whether damage is inflicted or not), a weapon with an Assault rating receives a bonus to Firearms that is applied against any MAPs received when trying to hit multiple targets within a given radius. For example, using the above stats, if a character fires a shot at two targets standing less than 2 meters apart at Medium Range, he would receive a +1D bonus to his Firearms roll to counter the MAP for shooting at 2 targets at once.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:17 am; edited 3 times in total
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd reduce the damage of the hellfire rounds to 1D vs. nonliving targets as the rules for hellfire shells make them strength 1 vs. targets without a toughness but otherwise it all looks good.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
Personally I'd reduce the damage of the hellfire rounds to 1D vs. nonliving targets as the rules for hellfire shells make them strength 1 vs. targets without a toughness but otherwise it all looks good.


Fair enough. Currently working on Auto-gun, Needler and Shuriken Catapult stats.

EDIT: Actually, after re-reading your post, I have to disagree. It's still a bolt hitting with the same kinetic impact as other bolts, so I can see dropping the damage down to 4D (as a standard bolt that doesn't detonate), but a .75 caliber projectile hitting at high velocity isn't going to do a measley 1D.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AUTO-GUNS

Capsule: While the bolter uses highly advanced ammunition, another firearm - the Auto-Gun - takes a different approach. The Auto-Gun uses mass-driver technology to fire bursts of small projectiles at extremely high velocity. At such speeds, simple kinetic impact inflicts damage on par with a shot from a blaster rifle. A blatant assault weapon, auto-guns are noisy (can't be silenced) and lack the versatility of blasters or bolt guns (no stun setting, and can only deliver one type of damage), but some pirate gangs and assault troops prefer them for just that reason.

Type: Auto-Gun
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Auto-Gun
Ammo: 100 (standard magazine. Auto-Guns easily accept larger drum-magazines or back-pack belt-feeders, which greatly increase ammunition supply)
Cost: 1,000 (50 for a 100-round box of ammunition)
Availability: 2, R
Rapid-Fire: 2D (Every D of Rapid-Fire dice used requires 5 rounds of ammo)
Range: 4-40/140/400
Damage: 5D

Type: Auto-Pistol
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Auto-Pistol
Ammo: 50
Cost: 750 (50 for a 100-round box of ammunition)
Availability: 2, R
Rapid-Fire: 1D (Every D of Rapid-Fire dice used requires 5 rounds of ammo)
Range: 3-20/60/160
Damage: 5D

EDIT: Changed the ranges, as Auto-Guns are supposed to have superior range to Las-Weapons.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mono-Gun (aka Shuriken Catapult)

Note: I changed the name for two reasons; 1) Shuriken is an Earth-term, which I try to minimize in my SWU setting, and 2) Shuriken Catapult really is quite a mouthful (6 syllables). YMMV. In my setting, I have used the various Warhammer races to populate the Unknown Regions, so the Capsule below is written such that the Eldar (who are as yet unknown to the rest of the SW galaxy) are the sole source of this particular tech.

Capsule: The Mono-Gun is a curious weapon that has turned up in limited numbers on the black market along the edges of Unknown Space. Efforts to trace these exotic and highly effective devices have so far produced no results, but the general consensus is that these weapons are the product of an advanced alien race who reside in the Unknown Regions. All Mono-Guns are curved and fluid in design, seemingly as much work-of-art as weapon. Composed entirely of an unclassified plastic material, no Mono-Gun has ever been successfully reverse engineered, as the weapon simply ceases to function once it is disassembled. Mono-Guns use a gravitic reaction to fire a hail of small mono-edged discs at their targets, slicing through armor, flesh and bone with relative ease. While it is not a truly silenced weapon, Mono-Gun shots are much quieter than other ranged weaponry, making their firing locations difficult to pinpoint at greater ranges.

Type: Mono-Gun
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Mono-Gun
Ammo: 100
Cost: 4,000
Availability: 4, X
Rapid-Fire: 2D (Every D of Rapid-Fire dice used requires 5 rounds of ammo)
Range: 3-60/120/300
Damage: 4D (reduces Armor effectiveness by 2D)
Special:
-Suppressed (see below)

Type: Mono-Pistol
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Mono-Pistol
Ammo: 50
Cost: 3,000
Availability: 4, X
Rapid-Fire: 1D (Every D of Rapid-Fire dice used requires 5 rounds of ammo)
Range: 3-10/30/120
Damage: 4D (reduces Armor effectiveness by 2D)
Special:
-Suppressed (see below)

Type: Mono-Cannon
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Mono-Cannon
Ammo: 200
Cost: 6,000
Availability: 4, X
Rapid-Fire: 2D (Every D of Rapid-Fire dice used requires 5 rounds of ammo)
Range: 5-100/180/500
Damage: 5D (reduces Armor effectiveness by 2D)
Special:
-Slow (-1D penalty to Move and Fire in the same round, in addition to any MAPs).
-Suppressed (See Below)

SPECIAL RULE: Suppressed Weapon
While not a truly silent weapon, a suppressed weapon has a minimal discharge that is difficult to identify as such, and even more difficult to locate the shooter's location. The difficulty to identify and locate a Suppressed Weapon when it fires uses the following chart:
    Point Blank - Very Easy
    Short - Easy
    Medium - Moderate
    Long - Difficult
    To Locate the shooter, increase all difficulties by 10.

Identifying the shot is considered a free action, but locating the shooter is a standard action, and is subject to MAPs.

NOTE: I did not include rules for the Shuriken Cannon's specialized Shrieker ammunition at this time, for a variety of reasons.

EDIT: Changed the ranges to adjust for a miscalculation I made while writing the stats.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran into a snag on the Needle Gun, so here is the Graviton Gun

GRAVITON GUN:

Capsule: Originally developed for peaceful purposes in low gravity environments, the graviton gun is a curious weapon. Any target hit by the gun acquires added mass, instantly becoming much heavier. This does not physically change or harm the target (initially), but does slow it down and sap its strength. The graviton gun is primarily used as a riot control device, or by bounty hunters attempting to subdue targets unharmed.

Type: Graviton Gun
Scale: Character
Skill: Blaster: Graviton Gun
Ammo: 25
Cost: 1500
Availability: 3, F
Rate of Fire: 1 (Full-Round burst)
Range: 3-10/30/120
Strength: 6D
Effect: For every 5 points by which the Strength roll beats the target's Strength roll, the target loses 1 pip from Strength and 1 point from Move. Effects are cummulative with multiple hits. Characters reduced to either 0D Strength or Move 0 are immobilized and helpless until the effect wears off (-1D from penalties every hour) or the character is treated with a demassing device (removes all penalties in 1D rounds).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Esoomian wrote:
Personally I'd reduce the damage of the hellfire rounds to 1D vs. nonliving targets as the rules for hellfire shells make them strength 1 vs. targets without a toughness but otherwise it all looks good.


EDIT: Actually, after re-reading your post, I have to disagree. It's still a bolt hitting with the same kinetic impact as other bolts, so I can see dropping the damage down to 4D (as a standard bolt that doesn't detonate), but a .75 caliber projectile hitting at high velocity isn't going to do a measley 1D.


Again this may be a place you want to diverge from standard 40K rules then. The Hellfire rounds in the 40K universe are actually largely glass so they lack the mass and penetrating power of true bolts and instead cover the target in thousands of tiny lacerations in order to give the toxins access to the target's system.

Quote:
Hellfire Rounds have devastating results on organic matter, as the rounds are developed to combat Tyranids. The core and tip are replaced with a vial of mutagenic acid with thousands of needles that hit the target upon the shattering of the vial, pumping the acid into the target.


Going by the 40k rules a Hellfire round has no strength rating and wounds the target on a 2+ but counts as only strength 1 vs. vehicles. That means that even the most lightly armoured vehicles are completely immune to hellfire rounds.

I’d prefer a hellfire round to be absolute death for high strength species like Esoomians, Wookiees and the like but completely ineffectual against all but the weakest of droids. To me that better represents the 40K rules but as you’ve stated you’re not going for a direct conversion so you may feel otherwise.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Type: Needle Gun
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Needle Gun
Ammo: 2 20-round magazines (allows gunner to select between poison and paralytic agents)
Cost: 1,000 (Toxin Darts 5 credits each)
Availability: 3, F
Range: 4-40/140/400
Strength: 6D (Normal / Stun, as declared by gunner prior to shot)
Special:
-Armor Immunity (see below)
-Silent (see below)
-Chemicals (see below)

Type: Needle Pistol
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: Needle Pistol
Ammo: 2 10-round magazines (allows gunner to select between poison and paralytic agents)
Cost: 750 (Toxin Darts 5 credits each)
Availability: 3, X
Range: 3-20/60/160
Strength: 6D (Normal / Stun, as declared by gunner prior to shot)
Special:
-Armor Immunity (see below)
-Silent (see below)
-Chemicals (see below)

SPECIAL RULES:
Armor Immunity
Characters wearing any kind of armor (even if it offers as little as a +1 bonus) are considered immune to normal Needler shots. If a target is wearing partial armor (such as a blast vest), the needle gunner may attempt to hit the target on an unarmored area of their body (Increase To Hit Difficulty by +5). If the target is wearing full armor, the gunner may attempt to hit the target in a joint between armor sections (Increase To Hit Difficulty by +15). Targets wearing power armor or armor with protected joints can not be affected by needler weapons.
Silent Weapon
Needlers are virtually silent and do not generate a visible flash upon firing. As such, a firing needler can only be detected on a Moderate Perception or Search roll, and only if within 20 meters of the shooter.
Chemicals
While needler chemicals are designed to be effective against as many species as possible, it is not always a sure thing. On a Wild Dice failure on the Damage roll, roll again on the following table:
1-3 - Normal effect
4-5 - Hallucinations (Target wanders D6 meters in a random direction determined by the Grenade Scatter chart, babbling nonsense and making a spectacle of himself. Not allowed any reaction rolls, but his random movement counts as a normal Dodge. Same duration as a Stun damage result).
6 - Effect Switch (Poison paralyzes / Paralytic kills)
If the needle gunner knows in advance what species he is targeting, he may make a Moderate Alien Species roll to custom tailor the toxin to the target's biology (no Wild Dice failure), but this increases the cost of the dart (Double price).

EDIT: Ranges adjusted to reflect a miscalculation made while writing stats.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
Again this may be a place you want to diverge from standard 40K rules then. The Hellfire rounds in the 40K universe are actually largely glass so they lack the mass and penetrating power of true bolts and instead cover the target in thousands of tiny lacerations in order to give the toxins access to the target's system.


I just figure that replacing the standard bolt warhead with some sort of pneumatic injector that forces the chemicals into the target's body once the bolt has penetrated makes for better uniformity of bolt types (i.e. in all cases, a bolt that penetrates but doesn't detonate still does the basic 4D damage, and no special effects take place).


Quote:
Going by the 40k rules a Hellfire round has no strength rating and wounds the target on a 2+ but counts as only strength 1 vs. vehicles. That means that even the most lightly armoured vehicles are completely immune to hellfire rounds.


Mostly, they still are, apart from the normal impact damage. A bolt that only inflicts 4D Character-scale will generally break even with Speeder-Scale swoops and speeder bikes, and anything larger will just brush it off.


Quote:
I’d prefer a hellfire round to be absolute death for high strength species like Esoomians, Wookiees and the like but completely ineffectual against all but the weakest of droids. To me that better represents the 40K rules but as you’ve stated you’re not going for a direct conversion so you may feel otherwise.


I'm not averse to upping the damage bonus against living beings, or Hellfire bolts having a cummulative damage effect if you hit the target with multiple rounds. EDIT: The difference here is that the Hellfire rounds you describe are only available to the Warhammer-style Heavy Bolter, which uses larger caliber rounds than standard bolters. I've downgraded them so that they can work in all types of bolters, including bolt pistols.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly enough a little searching on the Internet led me to discover that the Sternguard have an AP5 Hellfire round which works more like the one you describe. It still has no discernible effect on inorganic targets (including landspeeders and Ork buggies which I would say are the 40K equivalent to the speeders and swoops) but it is great at slaughtering monstrous creatures.
Here is my take on the hellfire round for your consideration. Feel free to stick with your version.

Hellfire round The Hellfire round replaces the core and tip are with a vial of mutagenic acid and a slender needles that injects the target. The shattering of the vial also causes a myriad of cuts through which the mutagenic acid may gain entry into the target's system.

Against living targets the Hellfire round does 3D physical damage which is soaked by armour only (including any organic armour such as scales that the target may have). The shooter can attempt to make a called shot to avoid armour (at higher difficulty) if coverage is not complete. If the target's armour fails to prevent the damage the target is not injured (assume the cuts or injection are so minor they have no in game effect) but the target must immediately make a heroic Strength check or die.

Against non-living targets the damage is reduced to 1D as the glass and needle is likely to only cause cosmetic damage.

Hellfire shell The Hellfire is larger than the Hellfire round and must be fired from a larger, shoulder mounted weapon. The core and tip are replaced with a vial of mutagenic acid and thousands of needles. When the proximity fuse detects targets a small charge is detonated showering the area with shards of glass and monofilament needles.

Against living targets the Hellfire shell does 3D physical damage which is soaked by armour only (including any organic armour such as scales that the target may have). Because the Hellfire shell is a blast weapon armour value is halved if it does not completely cover the target(s). If the targets' armour fails to prevent the damage the target is not injured (assume the cuts or injection are so minor they have no in game effect) but the target must immediately make a heroic Strength check or die. The Hellfire shell
has a blast radius of 0-2/4-6/10 meters and the damage is reduced by 1D for every zone so 3D/2D/1D

Against non-living targets the damage is 1D/2/1
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