Sci-Fi Archery

[CRMcNeill]

[lurker]

[CRMcNeill]

IMO, that's what the optional damage rules listed in the SpecForce Handbook are for. As for the rest, I'm going off the research and history I found on several different archery sites. The science behind what you suggest does make sense, but in that case I would probably just change the damage reduction at long range to -2D instead of -3D.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[jmanski]

Not at 5 meters. The arrow is at maximum velocity once it leaves the string, so it would be less than one meter. You could press it against or near someone at lesser damage.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[CRMcNeill]

[vanir]

I suggested 5m because that's a half-move for most characters meaning melee range during typical combat motion when advancing. It means an effective response is a lunging melee parry against the weapon itself rather than a dodge to avoid its missile, the overall effect of which even for a smart archer is disrupting the shot, to backstep and regain distance for ranged fire, or to backstep and switch weapons for melee.
Say you wanted to fire anyway at "point blank". The game effect would be backstepping to regain distance and realigning the shot, once again at ca.5m range.

[CRMcNeill]

My point is that, under the WEG rules, things generally become more difficult, not impossible. I can see the character taking a penalty to be able to hit at point blank, not for a blanket statement saying it can't be done. A skilled archer should still be able to pull it off. EDIT: After all, if Point Blank shot is available as an archery Feat in D&D, it should be possible in the SWU, too.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[vanir]

Quite right. There's always a creative way for players to overcome simple obstacles, for example you could always do an evasive drop and roll (dodge the melee grab at your weapon), but whilst on the drop keep the bow pulled and arrow on target, release just as backside hits ground then roll to the side and up for the next shot.

Of course in this scenario I'm suggesting the minimum range of "just outside melee range, or 5 metres" is maintained through the evasive dodge to avoid the melee reactionary grab (enemy is doing melee parry the weapon to disrupt the shot and grab at it following action for disarmament, it's really one motion but split into two clear reactionary/declared action skill rolls), so by dodging the minimum distance is maintained, the shot is not disrupted if the dodge roll succeeds and the Player can still fire the arrow whilst moving around in melee.

I guess by the same token why couldn't he do this at say 3 metres? Or 1 metre.
To be honest no real reason other than the half-move range. You've got about a metre worth of personal space from the centre of mass, 1.5 on the corners leaves only 2-3 metres between two man-sized opponents fighting typical melee combat. I've played with swords so I'll concur with this, although it will vary up to 5 metres empty space but that is a concentrated movement action to close that sort of distance. Really 5 metres walked is a smaller physical space to stand in.
In other words I'm outlining the 5m half move physical distance in melee combat is partly taken up by the people and is a lot closer than measuring a 5m length as empty space. It's just a half move, a free action of bouncing around that covers this distance, it's just a few steps.

Now the way I'm thinking is if I've got a bow in my hands, Ima have a little trouble firing it at something that's less than just a few steps away.
I'm gonna need a few steps of space just to spread my arms and draw the bow. I'm gonna take up a couple of metres myself there plus at least another metre string travel for the arrow to get released with maximum energy. If I'm standing within 5m of someone and they've got their hands on their hips it basically means I take three steps and I'll hit him in the face with the arrowhead whilst still drawn.

Visualisations aside it is the range for immediate melee attacks, you can dodge melee attacks but can you dive and tumble, backflip and cartwheel or whatever they're doing in Jackie Chan movies these days to dodge bullets, can you do that whilst drawing, aiming and firing a bow.

Perhaps instead of saying, "cannot be used under 5m range" we could say instead "cannot be used whilst engaged in melee combat due to undisrupted movements required to fire accurate shots (ie. not to fire wildly and randomly)"

Essentially with the simpler 5m min range idea, I was suggesting that whilst you can dodge in melee it would disrupt a shot due to the way a bow is drawn, aimed and fired, it's a little more physical than a carbine that you just point and shoot and even police training warns never to draw a gun at melee distance, always defend with batons or improvised items, backstep for physical distance, then draw outside 10 feet. Instructors cited examples where police have been cut down with knives whilst attempting to draw their weapons at close range.
And that's a firearm, easy to use whilst moving around (not accurately, but you can spray and pray).

Yet with a bow, seems to me successfully disrupting an enemy's shot with one is just as good as dodging his fire. Slap it if you get close enough, the opportunities to disrupt a bow shot are tremendous because it's a weapon type that requires a stable firing platform. You have to pose, draw, release smoothly to hit target, you can't do it ducking and weaving unless you get a moment of peace to brace, draw and fire.

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

So, we played our first game using these rules last night. Zoe (my friend's daughter) played a Galactic Big Game Hunter (see Heroes and Rogues) and swapped out the Sporting Blaster for a compound bow. We played a variation on the Pirates of Prexiar campaign from the 2R&E sourcebook, and the compound bow was the perfect weapon for eliminating guards quietly while the group was sneaking through the pirate camp. She got four kills, two of them stealthy, one taking out a guard who came investigating when one of the other team members failed a Sneak roll, and one to take out a pirate in a guard tower before he could open fire at the escaping cargo skiff.

Here's the rules we ended up using:

1) Rather than requiring a Strength roll, I used the character's base strength to set bow damage and range. Short version, take the character's Strength dice (minus any pip bonuses) and apply it to the following table:

2D: 3D+2 Damage @ 3-12/25/50
3D: 4D+1 @ 3-25/50/100
4D: 5D @ 4-40/75/150
5D: 5D+2 @ 4-50/100/200
6D: 6D+1 @ 5-65/125/250

Any character can automatically make the pull on a bow that is at their Strength or lower (so a character with a Strength of 3D+2 can automatically draw back any bow with a draw strength of 3D or lower), but has to make a Strength roll to pull anything higher. The Strength roll is equal to one step for every D of Strength above their own (so a character with a Strength of 3D+2 would have to make a Very Easy Strength check to pull the string on a 4D-rated bow).

2) The above rules are for a bow that has been built, designed or selected to the character's specifications. Any random bow will have a random strength value, and a stronger character will be able to get slightly more out of the bow than a weaker person might (+1 step if archer's Strength exceeds the bow's rating by 1D or more).

2) Compound bow costs more but increases the bow's damage and range by 1 step (so a character with a 3D compound bow functions as a 4D recurve bow)

3) Bow was at -1D to use at Point Blank, in addition to any MAPs

4) I gave Zoe 12 normal arrows and six specials (2 vibro-tips, 2 blast tips and 2 stun tips), and she never even touched the specials. All of her kills were with standard arrows. I had hoped she would get to use the blast-tips during the AT-PT ambush section of the game, but the players short-circuited the whole jungle chase sequence by sneaking two characters into the pirate camp and loading the boxes on the cargo skiff, then signalling the third character to fly in with their ship (which has a large drive-in type cargo bay) and simply driving the skiff onto the ship. They crashed the skiff in the cargo bay, but escaped and made orbit before the pirate corvette even lifted off the ground.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[vanir]

I'll have you know sir, I am captain complicated! Yes it's sort of like a superhero only wack and...not

sounds like you got a nice, working system you're all happy with and the game is coming along terrifically! Kudos to you. I'll probably come around to your way of thinking on this, I've got one player who just loves old schooling unique weapons to be different, like bows and things.
I'm liking a Strength related performance the more I think about it, from a Player's point of view not necessarily an objective one. Ultimately the guiding rule should be if it's fun and isn't making you headdesk it's good.

[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

So the higher base str you have the less bonus the bow gives to damage it seems. At 2d base (standard npc norm) you get 1d+2 bonus from the bow, but at 6d, you get a whapping +1?
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[CRMcNeill]