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Updating the Combat Airspeeder
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:09 pm    Post subject: Updating the Combat Airspeeder Reply with quote

The T-47's WEG stats aren't all that exciting; the ship is next to useless against anything except other speeders, and there are no rules to speak of for running the tow-cable attack. I know I've seen at least one video game where a T-47 can be used effectively against starfighters, but the RPG stats make this practically impossible (with the WEG Scale modifier applied, T-47's have a Maneuverability of 7D, but a Hull of -1D and their laser cannon only inflict +2 damage). My revised scale system makes things a little more plausible (5D Maneuver and 1D Hull), but the laser cannon's 2D+2 damage is barely enough to break even against a TIE Fighter. In addition, the films quite clearly show that T-47's (or at least the Alliance combat-modified versions) have sensors, even though their stats show nothing of the kind.

As part of a recent project, I came across an article from Challenge Magazine called "The Rebel Air Force: Combat Airspeeders". The article proposed two different new types of airspeeders, one an air superiority variant and one a heavy strike variant. Both, oddly enough, were stated at Starfighter Scale, even though the air superiority variant very closely resembled the T-47. While I liked the look of the air superiority speeder, the heavy strike speeder (which was supposedly based around the cockpit of a B-Wing) looked like a reject from a Flash Gordon comic book. Its armament was also waaay over the top, equipped with both proton torpedoes and an experimental concussion missile that did 12D Starfighter-Scale damage.

If you want to see what I'm talking about, here are the stats from the article in Challenge, along with the Wookieepedia links:
    AHS-1 Walker Buster Heavy Assault Airspeeder
    Craft: Slayn & Korpil's AHS-1
    Type: Heavy Assault Airspeeder
    Scale: Starfighter (due to power output)
    Crew: 1
    Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms
    Maneuverability: 0D
    Move: 3D+1
    Flight Ceiling: 125 kilometers
    Body: 4D
    Weapons:
    Two KL5 Laser Cannon
    Fire Control: 3D
    Damage: 6D
    Quad Blaster Cannon
    Fire Control: 3D
    Damage: 3D+2
    Proton Torpedo Launcher
    Fire Control: 3D
    Damage: 9D
    Starbolt Concussion Missiles
    Fire Control: 6D
    Damage: 12D

    Tachyon-Class Fast-Attack Airspeeder
    Craft: Tachyon Fast-Attack Airspeeder
    Scale: Starfighter (due to power output)
    Crew: 1
    Cargo Capacity: 5 kilograms
    Maneuverability: 4D
    Move: 6D
    Flight Ceiling: 500 kilometers
    Body: 2D
    Weapons:
    Twin Laser Cannon
    Fire Control: 1D+2
    Damage: 5D
The stats are 1E Rules Companion consistent, but even so, they are very much over the top. While both craft are supposed to operate only in atmosphere, their flight ceilings allow them to operate in low orbit by 2E rules. And once there, the Tachyon is roughly equal to an A-Wing, while the AHS-1... never mind Walker Buster; this thing can take on small capital ships all by itself.

So, with all this in mind, I'm going to do a few different things:
    1) Make a few alterations to the stats of the Rebel Alliance Combat Airspeeder to make it more effective against Starfighter-Scale craft (under my modified Scale rules).

    2) Use the stats for the AHS-1 and Tachyon as a basis to create stats for two T-47 variants: the T-47L Air Superiority Speeder (based on the Tachyon), and the T-47H Strike Speeder (based on the T-47 with input from the AHS-1, with ordnance carrying capacity, including anti-walker missiles, but slower and less maneuverable).

    EDIT: 3) Come up with some sort of workable rules and difficulty numbers to allow airspeeders to perform the tow-cable attack on walkers.
Stats are on the way, but if you feel like chiming in, I'd appreciate your input.
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TyCaine
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the Airspeeder was under-powered, but then again in ESB it was seriously outmatched by the AT-ATs. Then the Challenge magazine stats came out and they seemed almost ridiculously overpowered in comparison.

However, since the Airspeeder was (apparently, if the background test is to be believed) used frequently by the Rebels, and since the AT-ATs were used regularly by the Empire, you'd have to assume they would be uprated to make them a little more evenly matched at some point.

So, I'm interested in seeing what you come up with!


T.C.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the rebellion used them more against imperial repulsor speeders. Such as Chariots, and such.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alliance Combat Airspeeder

Craft: Incom's T-47 (modified)
Type: Combat Modified Airspeeder
Scale: Speeder
Length: 5.3 meters
Skill: Repulsorlift Operation: Alliance Combat Airspeeder
Crew: 1 & 1 Gunner
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Vehicle Blasters 4D
Repulsorlift Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms
Cover: Full
Cost: 50,000 (Used, on the black market. NAFS otherwise)
Altitude Range: Ground - 40 kilometers
Maneuverability: 3D
Move: 350; 1,000 kph
Body: 3D
Sensors: (Range in parenthesis is for low-level flight operations, below 250 meters altitude, when detecting objects on the ground)
Passive 40km (4km)/1D
Scan 80km (6km)/2D
Search 160km (8km)/3D
Focus 4km (400m)/4D
Weapons:
Double Laser Cannon (Fire Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 6D
Light Laser Cannon & Power Harpoon
Fire Arc: Rear
Crew: 1 (Gunner)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 3D
Range: 100m-300m/1km/2km (Laser), 25m-50m/100m/200m (Harpoon)
Damage: 4D (None, if using Harpoon)

What I Changed, And Why:
    Altitude Range: In a topic a while back, I posited that, if repulsorlifts function in the manner specified by the original Star Wars novel adaptation, they push against gravity, not the actual surface underneath them. As such, there would be no altitude limitation on the part of the drive so long as it is within a gravity field of sufficient strength, although other factors could still be in effect (such as the environmental system not being vacuum sealed). It is also noteworthy that, in both the Star Wars Sourcebook and the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook, the capsule states that airspeeders can have a flight ceiling in excess of 250 kilometers, while the accompanying stats give them a flight ceiling of 250 meters, which I strongly suspect is another WEG typo. Since both of the Challenge speeder stats allow low orbit operations (i.e. in excess of the 50 kilometer edge-of-space used by WEG and the generally agreed 100 kilometer edge-of-space in the real world), I decided to upgrade the altitude to the 250 kilometers mentioned in the write-up.

    Sensors: I've long believed that ground vehicles should have sensors that function in a similar manner to those on starships. TESB specifically shows Rogue Two picking up something on his speeder's sensors during the search for Han and Luke. The differing ranges are a representation of how much closer the ship's sensor horizon is when operating closer to the ground.

    Laser Cannon: If the video games are to be believed, the speeder's laser cannon need to be upgraded if they are going to be useful against TIE fighters. 6D Speeder Scale works out to 4D Starfighter Scale on my revised Scale System, and the added range allows the speeder to equal the range of starfighter-mounted lasers.

    Light Laser Cannon & Power Harpoon: The WEG stats allow the rear cannon to be fired for normal (if somewhat wimpy) damage. I decided to reserve the power harpoon specifically for the tow cable attack, and have it share the mount with a light laser cannon. This allows the tail gunner to provide covering fire to the rear to hold off enemy airspeeders or starfighters while the speeder is on its attack run.

Rules for the Harpoon & Tow Cable Attack
    1) The Approach - To set-up for the attack, the pilot must fly a relatively straight and level course directly at the target walker. This is done at normal difficulty for conditions, but the pilot must not make any sudden maneuvers (no full dodges allowed). While this limited mobility makes the speeders vulnerable to enemy fire, groups of speeders can use Attack Pattern Delta to provide cover for a trailing speeder that is setting up for an attack run. The accuracy of the approach path dictates the range at which the harpoon is fired:
      Piloting Roll > Difficulty = Range
      0-5 = Long
      6-10 = Medium
      11-15 = Short
      16+ = Point Blank

    2) Setting the Hook - Targeting the legs of a moving Walker has a base difficulty equal to the base Range Difficulty +10. A miss has no effect, but a successful hit attaches a fusion disc and tow cable to one of the target's legs.

    3) Tightening the Noose - The pilot must then make a succession of tight, low altitude orbits around the target walker's legs, drawing the line tighter and tighter. The pilot must make one Repulsorlift Operations roll per loop, with a +10 Maneuver modifier to the base terrain and speed difficulty (obviously, the best results are achieved at low speeds). The speeder carries enough tow cable for up to four orbits. If the pilot fails his Operations roll, the line breaks before that loop completes.

    4) The Trip - Once the line is set, the Walker pilot must make an immediate Walker Operations check against the local terrain conditions, with an additional +10 difficulty modifier for every successful orbit made by the speeder. On a successful Walker Operations roll, the Walker comes to a stop without taking any damage, but can go no further until the cable lines have been cut away from the legs. On a skill roll failure, apply the results of the Vehicle Movement Failure table. If the attacking speeder managed to make four complete loops, however, the Walker pilot will be facing a +40 modifier, and only a supremely skilled pilot can avoid catastrophe under those conditions.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I think the rebellion used them more against imperial repulsor speeders. Such as Chariots, and such.
I didn't feel the need to restrict myself to WEG's limitations when there was enough EU precedent to allow it. On top of that, changing the scale difference between Speeder and Starfighter from 4D to 2D put them close enough for it to be feasible, so I went with it. If nothing else, it makes for another potential explanation as to why the Imperials didn't send TIE Fighters under the shield to attack; under these rules, Alliance Airspeeders would've wiped the floor with them.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alliance Strike Airspeeder

Craft: Incom's T-47H
Type: Strike Modified Airspeeder
Scale: Speeder
Length: 5.3 meters
Skill: Repulsorlift Operation: Alliance Combat Airspeeder
Crew: 1 & 1 Gunner
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Vehicle Blasters 4D
Repulsorlift Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms
Cover: Full
Cost: 75,000 (Used, on the black market. NAFS otherwise)
Altitude Range: Ground - 125 kilometers
Maneuverability: 0D
Move: 295; 850 kph
Body: 3D
Sensors: (Range in parenthesis is for low-level flight operations, below 250 meters altitude, when detecting objects on the ground)
Passive 40km (4km)/1D
Scan 80km (6km)/2D
Search 160km (8km)/3D
Focus 4km (400m)/4D
Weapons:
Double Laser Cannon (Fire Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 6D
2 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Missile Weapons
Fire Control: 0D
Range: 100m-200m/800m/1.5km
Damage: 10D
Ammo: 4 per launcher
Note: If you are using my Advanced Starfighter Combat System, these launchers are considered Multi-Role Warhead Launchers with capacity for 4 missile-scale warheads or 2 torpedo-scale warheads.
Light Laser Cannon
Fire Arc: Rear
Crew: 1 (Gunner)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 3D
Range: 100m-300m/800m/1.5km
Damage: 4D+2
Capsule: The original Alliance Airspeeder was a something of a makeshift design converted from a civilian sporting craft. Its harpoon-and-tow cable anti-walker attack was largely a desperation maneuver, as more conventional attacks were unavailable to the Alliance. However, as the Alliance continued to gain ground and more resources became available, Alliance R&D produced the T-47H.

The T-47H uses the same basic airframe and power plant as the standard T-47. The difference is in the armament, which now includes a pair of multi-role warhead launchers that can deliver concussion missiles, proton torpedoes, gravity bombs and a variety of other kinds of ordnance. The power harpoon has been deleted, with the tail gunner now serving primarily to defend the speeder from attack in its rear arc. This is even more important on the T-47H as the inclusion of the warhead launchers has slashed the craft's performance numbers, turning the fast and maneuverable T-47 into a lumbering bantha; slow, cumbersome and clumsy.

While the T-47 was able to outmatch Imperial TIE Fighters in low altitude combat, the T-47H is easy prey, and almost always operates with standard T-47s or the new T-47L Superiority Airspeeder in escort. Despite these limitations, the T-47H has proven a highly effective close air support and anti-walker platform.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alliance Superiority Airspeeder

IMAGE

Craft: Incom's T-47L
Type: Superiority Modified Airspeeder
Scale: Speeder
Length: 4.8 meters
Skill: Repulsorlift Operation: Alliance Combat Airspeeder
Crew: 1
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Vehicle Blasters 4D
Repulsorlift Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms
Cover: Full
Cost: 70,000 (Used, on the black market. NAFS otherwise)
Altitude Range: Ground - 500 kilometers
Maneuverability: 4D
Move: 470; 1,350 kph
Body: 3D
Sensors: (Range in parenthesis is for low-level flight operations, below 250 meters altitude, when detecting objects on the ground)
Passive 40km (4km)/1D
Scan 80km (6km)/2D
Search 160km (8km)/3D
Focus 4km (400m)/4D
Weapons:
Double Laser Cannon (Fire Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 7D
Capsule: The T-47L is the counterpart to the heavier T-47H. Where the heavier -H model sacrificed nearly all of its performance to serve as an ordnance carrier, the -L model puts the same basic drive and armament of the standard T-47 on a smaller, lighter, one-man frame. The result is one of the most high performance combat vehicles in Alliance service. In atmosphere, this tiny craft outperforms even an A-Wing, providing much needed air coverage to Alliance ground forces and bases, and as a much needed escort for the cumbersome T-47H's.

Between the -H and -L models, the standard T-47 is rapidly being moved off of front-line duty, with current models serving as scouts, trainers or couriers.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TyCaine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the look of these so far, unfortunately I'm not near my books or computer right now so cannot give much feedback, but will try later tonight.

I do agree about the sensors, and adding sensors to some of the ground vehicles has been something I've considered doing for a while.


T.C.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Rebel Alliance Strike Airspeeder
Craft: Incom's T-47H
Type: Strike Modified Airspeeder
Scale: Speeder
Length: 5.3 meters
Skill: Repulsorlift Operation: Alliance Combat Airspeeder
Crew: 1 & 1 Gunner
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Vehicle Blasters 4D
Repulsorlift Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms
Cover: Full
Cost: 75,000 (Used, on the black market. NAFS otherwise)
Altitude Range: Ground - 125 kilometers
Maneuverability: 0D
Move: 295; 850 kph
Body: 3D
Sensors: (Range in parenthesis is for low-level flight operations, below 250 meters altitude, when detecting objects on the ground)
Passive 40km (4km)/1D
Scan 80km (6km)/2D
Search 160km (8km)/3D
Focus 4km (400m)/4D
Weapons:
Double Laser Cannon (Fire Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 6D
2 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Missile Weapons
Fire Control: 0D
Range: 100m-200m/800m/1.5km
Damage: 10D
Ammo: 4 per launcher
Note: If you are using my Advanced Starfighter Combat System, these launchers are considered Multi-Role Warhead Launchers with capacity for 4 missile-scale warheads or 2 torpedo-scale warheads.
Light Laser Cannon
Fire Arc: Rear
Crew: 1 (Gunner)
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 3D
Range: 100m-300m/800m/1.5km
Damage: 4D+2
Capsule: The original Alliance Airspeeder was a something of a makeshift design converted from a civilian sporting craft. Its harpoon-and-tow cable anti-walker attack was largely a desperation maneuver, as more conventional attacks were unavailable to the Alliance. However, as the Alliance continued to gain ground and more resources became available, Alliance R&D produced the T-47H.

The T-47H uses the same basic airframe and power plant as the standard T-47. The difference is in the armament, which now includes a pair of multi-role warhead launchers that can deliver concussion missiles, proton torpedoes, gravity bombs and a variety of other kinds of ordnance. The power harpoon has been deleted, with the tail gunner now serving primarily to defend the speeder from attack in its rear arc. This is even more important on the T-47H as the inclusion of the warhead launchers has slashed the craft's performance numbers, turning the fast and maneuverable T-47 into a lumbering bantha; slow, cumbersome and clumsy.

While the T-47 was able to outmatch Imperial TIE Fighters in low altitude combat, the T-47H is easy prey, and almost always operates with standard T-47s or the new T-47L Superiority Airspeeder in escort. Despite these limitations, the T-47H has proven a highly effective close air support and anti-walker platform.


With this version still only being 5.3 meters long, where the heck is it storing all that ordinance??
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underneath. Remember, the standard TIE is only about a meter longer than the airspeeder, and the TIE/gt can carry 12 concussion missiles, although it takes a serious performance hit to be able to do so. Same with this; it's essentially the snowspeeder from TESB, but with a pair of missile launchers faired into the undercarriage, to either side of the cockpit.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From looking at pics of them in the Hoth hanger facility, they are practically ON the ground. so where exactly is the clearance space needed to sport those missile mounts??
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
From looking at pics of them in the Hoth hanger facility, they are practically ON the ground. so where exactly is the clearance space needed to sport those missile mounts??

Have you looked at an image of the underside of the model? If you had, you'd see that the underside cross-section is shaped like a shallow "M". I put the missile launchers in the indents to either side of the center line.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on how big those launchers are, since they have to be multi-roll, i am not sure they would fit. And in the rare case they would, the ammo won't.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Depending on how big those launchers are, since they have to be multi-roll, i am not sure they would fit. And in the rare case they would, the ammo won't.

I think anything we think about technology in a fictional universe is speculation, so I am going to speculate that you are wrong. It is demonstrable from film evidence that ordnance in the SWU is much smaller than comparable ordnance in the real world. I also reiterate my previous point as to the closeness in relative size of a Snowspeeder and a TIE fighter,, and stand by my belief that, if a TIE/gt can carry 12 concussion missiles in a relativity tiny hull, an airspeeder can carry 8 of them in two separate launchers, at the cost of a major reduction in performance. YMMV.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you still insist that it can't be done, but would like to use the idea, I suggest removing the tail gunner and rear gun, then putting the ordnance magazines behind the pilot. This leaves the craft even more vulnerable to attack from behind, and even more dependent on escorts for protection.
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