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Ship from Prometheus film
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject: Ship from Prometheus film Reply with quote

What sort of ship would you think the craft the heroes had in the film Prometheus would be.. A long range scout? Long haul mining ship?
DO you think it would be cap scale or SF scale?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the Xenopedia the USCSS Prometheus is a Heliades-class Space exploration vehicle (SEV).

Crew: 17
Length: 130 metres (427 ft.)[1]
Width: 48.75 metres (160 ft.)[1]
Height: 36.5 metres (120 ft.)[1]
Engine Power: Dual FTL engines
Power plant: 2.1 terrawatt RL fusion reactor
Cargo capacity: 9 megatonnes or 9,000,000 mt
Cost: $1 trillion
Small craft complement:
5x RT Series Group Transports
4x ATV NR6 runabouts
2x heavy mineral extractors
8x Class-A individual crew ejection pods
1x Class-D crew escape module (According to the xenopedia this modules consumables had 50 years worth decontaminated oxygen.

I'd say this was a capital ship.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Ship from Prometheus film Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
What sort of ship would you think the craft the heroes had in the film Prometheus would be.. A long range scout? Long haul mining ship?
DO you think it would be cap scale or SF scale?

In keeping with the theme of the film, I'd make it a long range corporate scout survey ship, used to follow up on promising finds made by corporate scouts in smaller, less capable platforms. Definitely Capital-Scale, but on the low-end, somewhere between 150-200 meters. Designed to operate and land in practically any environment, then serve as a base station for ground vehicle surveys.

Ironically enough, the ship from Prometheus was named the Prometheus.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how's about this for a quick stat up..

Prometheus
Craft: Space exploration vehicle
Type: USCSS Heliades Monitor
Length: 130 meters
Scale: Capital
Skill: Capital ship piloting
Crew:17; Skeleton 3/+10
Passengers:40
Consumables: 2 yrs. + special
Nav computer: yes
Hyperdrive: x2
Back up hyperdrive: x10
Maneuverability: 1d
Hull: 3d
Shields: none
Weapons: none
Sensors: Passive 20/+0d+2, Scan 40/1d+1, Search 60/+2d, Focus 2/+2d+2.

Vehicles carried: 5 wheeled 8-man group transports, Four 4x4 all terrain vehicles (3 person cap), 2 mineral extractors, 8 single person ejection pods, 2 regular ejection pods,

Special: Habitability module. This 8 person dwelling is fully sealed and has enough food, water and air to last for 5 years for those within. It also has a long range emergency transponder and hyperspace beacon, and one single automated medical bay (6d Medicine skill)
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks nice but the cargo capacity is missing.


I realize that 9 million metric tons looks like a lot, but these ships were designed to go on missions that take years to complete before returning, and that huge payload is what makes these ships profitable. Not only for the company but the bonuses for the crews who are dedicating years of their lives exploring the unknown with a very small group of people they may or may not like.

I would give the ship minimal shields tho. If for nothing else than added protection against meteor showers, etc.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Type: USCSS Heliades Monitor

Historically, monitors were shallow-draft military ships used for assault or defense close in-shore, such as engaging coastal defenses or supporting friendly coastal defenses against attack. I'd just call this a Commercial Exploration Vessel.

Quote:
Crew:17; Skeleton 3/+10
Passengers:40

I strongly suspect that the Xenopedia's listed crew of 17 reflects the entire crew, including the operational crew and the science team. The science team would better be listed as Passengers. I'd go with something more along the lines of Crew: 10 (3 @ +10), and Passengers: 10

Quote:
Hyperdrive: x2
Back up hyperdrive: x10
Maneuverability: 1d
Hull: 3d
Shields: none
Weapons: none

Before I can respond to this, I'd like to know exactly what sort of crossover you're looking for. If you're looking for a ship that looks like the Prometheus, but is updated to the standards of Star Wars technology, then these should really be better. In addition, the ship should be better armed; in the SWU, lots of things happen in space, unlike in the Xenoverse where space mostly serves as an emptiness that isolates the humans and cuts them off from timely assistance.

Quote:
Sensors: Passive 20/+0d+2, Scan 40/1d+1, Search 60/+2d, Focus 2/+2d+2.

These are awfully low for what is essentially a capital-grade scout ship.

Quote:
Vehicles carried: 5 wheeled 8-man group transports, Four 4x4 all terrain vehicles (3 person cap), 2 mineral extractors, 8 single person ejection pods, 2 regular ejection pods,

Since this is the SWU, shouldn't the majority of these be repulsorlifts instead of wheeled vehicles?

Quote:
Special: Habitability module. This 8 person dwelling is fully sealed and has enough food, water and air to last for 5 years for those within. It also has a long range emergency transponder and hyperspace beacon, and one single automated medical bay (6d Medicine skill)

Are you looking to make this a single, unique vessel, or part of a class of exploratory ships? If this is just one of many, it's important to remember that the Hab-Module was included specifically because Peter Weyland, the man who funded the entire explanation, was riding along in secret. I'm not so sure that similar expense would be put forth for a standard survey vessel...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my version, drawing on what's already been posted, with some twists to accommodate the differences between the Xenoverse and the SWU.

Craft: Rendili Star Drive's Heliades-Class
Type: Commercial Exploration Vessel
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Length: 130 meters
Skill: Capital Ship Piloting
Crew: 6 (3 @ +5) & 3 Gunners
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 5D
Gunnery 4D
Piloting 4D+2
Shields 4D
Sensors 5D
Passengers: 10
Cargo Capacity: 9,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x.75
Hyperdrive Backup: x10
Nav Computer: Yes (-10 to Astrogation Difficulty)
Maneuverability: 2D+1
Space: 6
Atmosphere: 330; 950 km/h
Hull: 3D
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
Passive 40/1D
Scan 80/2D
Search 120/3D
Focus 6/4D
Weapons:
3 Dual Turbolaser Cannon (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 2 Front/Left/Right, 1 Rear
Crew: 1
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Atmosphere Range: 300m-1.5km/3.5km/7.5km
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage: 5D
4 Heavy Blaster Cannon (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 1 Front/Left, 1 Front/Right, 1 Rear/Left, 1 Rear/Right
Crew: None; Droid Controlled (5D Skill equivalent)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/10/17
Atmosphere Range: 100m-500m/1km/1.7km
Rate of Fire: 2D Auto-Fire
Damage: 4D
Small Craft Complement:
-5 General Purpose Transports
-4 Speeder Bikes
-2 Mineral Extractors
Capsule: The Heliades-Class Commercial Exploration Vessel is representative of a broad variety of survey platforms used by corporate scout services. Whether purpose-built platforms like Heliades or modified general purpose platforms like the CEC CR90 Corvette, survey ships are used to follow up on initial discoveries made by lead scouts. Generally, lead scouts operate in small, fast vessels with limited facilities. Once they report a promising find to company headquarters, ships like the Heliades are dispatched with more capable staff and equipment to provide a more detailed survey.

The race to claim a newly discovered resource planet can be quite cut-throat, so exploration vessels tend to be fast and moderately well armed, both for defense against unexpected attackers and to drive off claim jumpers (and, occasionally, to jump claims themselves). In addition, exploration vessels are commonly equipped with the best possible navigation computer systems: a necessity when making a fast hyperspace jump on a newly-plotted route to a new planet. Some of the better-equipped vessels also feature ejectable life-boats with extended life support facilities (including cold-sleep modules for the entire crew) and long range hyperspace transponders to summon rescuers should something happen to the exploration ship itself.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:09 am; edited 3 times in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Historically, monitors were shallow-draft military ships used for assault or defense close in-shore, such as engaging coastal defenses or supporting friendly coastal defenses against attack. I'd just call this a Commercial Exploration Vessel.


I know, but i have always liked monitor lizards!

CRMcNeill wrote:
I strongly suspect that the Xenopedia's listed crew of 17 reflects the entire crew, including the operational crew and the science team. The science team would better be listed as Passengers. I'd go with something more along the lines of Crew: 10 (3 @ +10), and Passengers: 10


IMO their crew list was also for the miners (since it was a modified mining ship).

CRMcNeill wrote:
Before I can respond to this, I'd like to know exactly what sort of crossover you're looking for. If you're looking for a ship that looks like the Prometheus, but is updated to the standards of Star Wars technology, then these should really be better. In addition, the ship should be better armed; in the SWU, lots of things happen in space, unlike in the Xenoverse where space mostly serves as an emptiness that isolates the humans and cuts them off from timely assistance.


More to put it into a SW level tech.. As to why i didn't arm it.. NOT all scout/cargo ships are armed...

CRMcNeill wrote:
These are awfully low for what is essentially a capital-grade scout ship.


More than sufficient for a scout/mining vessel.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Since this is the SWU, shouldn't the majority of these be repulsorlifts instead of wheeled vehicles?


Not everyone has to dispence with wheeled stuff just cause its "Star wars man... wheels are archaic dude."

CRMcNeill wrote:
Are you looking to make this a single, unique vessel, or part of a class of exploratory ships? If this is just one of many, it's important to remember that the Hab-Module was included specifically because Peter Weyland, the man who funded the entire explanation, was riding along in secret. I'm not so sure that similar expense would be put forth for a standard survey vessel...


More unique, but i could see dropping the hab module's survivability to make it into a class of ships.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I know, but i have always liked monitor lizards!

<shrug> To each their own.

Quote:
IMO their crew list was also for the miners (since it was a modified mining ship).

The Xenopedia lists it as a "Heavy Exploration / Prospecting Vessel", which is not, strictly speaking, the same thing as mining. I stand by my earlier idea that this is the sort of ship that would be sent to follow-up on a promising lead from a light scout. Once this sort of ship confirmed the find, then a dedicated mining platform (much larger than this one) would be sent in to actually do the for-profit mining.

As for the crew, Xenopedia lists the following:
    1 Captain
    1 Mission Director
    1 Pilot
    1 Co-Pilot / Navigator
    1 Mission Attendant (Android)
    2 Lead Scientists
    1 Biologist
    1 Geologist
    1 Medical Officer
    4 Security Personnel
    4 Mechanics

    (+1 Mission Sponsor)

Of that list, I'd say the ship has a base crew of 5; captain, pilot, navigator, and 2 techs. Most everyone else would be passengers, or at most, have minor onboard duties in support of the main crew.

Of course, crew sizes do tend to be much smaller in the Xenoverse than in the SWU. It's possible the ship could have enough personnel to cover 2-3 duty shifts, with not every position fully staffed.

Quote:
More to put it into a SW level tech.. As to why i didn't arm it.. NOT all scout/cargo ships are armed...
Quote:
More than sufficient for a scout/mining vessel.

So you are okay with an unarmed, relatively defenseless ship running around the SWU doing survey missions in regions where unknown threats can and do happen? I doubt your players will be so sanguine if you put them in such a position.

Quote:
Not everyone has to dispense with wheeled stuff just cause its "Star wars man... wheels are archaic dude."

And if this were an archaic ship, I might agree. However, the descriptor of the Prometheus describes it as state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line equipment. That's why I proposed that it be a corporate-owned platform, as only a corporation or government would have the resources to field such an expensive ship. As such, while wheeled vehicles might be more appropriate for an archaic ship, it only really fits if you are considering this ship to be archaic as well.

How exactly do you see your version being used?
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D+1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a discontinued design because it was always crewed by people who make the stupidest decisions imaginable. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D+1 wrote:
It's a discontinued design because it was always crewed by people who make the stupidest decisions imaginable. Smile

If that were the case, every ship used by PC groups would be discontinued.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
And if this were an archaic ship, I might agree. However, the descriptor of the Prometheus describes it as state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line equipment. That's why I proposed that it be a corporate-owned platform, as only a corporation or government would have the resources to field such an expensive ship. As such, while wheeled vehicles might be more appropriate for an archaic ship, it only really fits if you are considering this ship to be archaic as well.

How exactly do you see your version being used?


The Prometheus is state of the art, top of the line compared to Aliens Universe Earth standards. The technology is archaic compared to Star Wars Universe standards.

One has to decide how faithful to the original IP the ship is going to be.

And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Juggernaut in the Imperial Sourcebook a wheeled vehicle?


Edit: Personally I favor building the ship using current Star Wars tech.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
The Prometheus is state of the art, top of the line compared to Aliens Universe Earth standards. The technology is archaic compared to Star Wars Universe standards.

One has to decide how faithful to the original IP the ship is going to be.
Quote:
Edit: Personally I favor building the ship using current Star Wars tech.

That is the hard part of any crossover; do you make it a literal crossover, in which case there will likely be serious conflicts between the underlying assumptions of the two crossed universes, or do you maintain the spirit of the crossover and create something that potentially has major differences from the original source?

My take has always been that, since we are playing in the Star Wars Universe, the rules and science of the SWU take primacy over those of the Xenoverse. If the Prometheus were faithful to Aliens tech, it would be practically useless in the SWU, requiring two years to cover a distance even the slowest ships in the SWU can cover in a matter of minutes. It might be good for a one-off mission, with PCs having a deep space encounter with a sleeper ship, but the ship just looks too d@mn good and modern to be some ancient derelict floating through space. It fits way better as a state-of-the-art long range exploration vessel.


Quote:
And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Juggernaut in the Imperial Sourcebook a wheeled vehicle?

Correct, although the origin goes back further than that. Juggernaut was the British name for the Hindu Temple Carts of Jagganath, massive wheeled platforms carrying a god's statue. It is now considered a byword for "a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable." WEG co-opted the name for the Juggernaut heavy assault vehicle, and considering the origin it is rather appropriate.

The use of Juggernaut in the Xenoverse, however, is a little more obscure. There is still no clear picture of exactly what function the Engineer's u-ship serves, so calling it a Juggernaut may simply be a stylistic choice based on how it rolled over on Vickers and Shaw when it crashed.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
ForbinProject wrote:
And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Juggernaut in the Imperial Sourcebook a wheeled vehicle?

Correct, although the origin goes back further than that. Juggernaut was the British name for the Hindu Temple Carts of Jagganath, massive wheeled platforms carrying a god's statue. It is now considered a byword for "a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable." WEG co-opted the name for the Juggernaut heavy assault vehicle, and considering the origin it is rather appropriate.

The use of Juggernaut in the Xenoverse, however, is a little more obscure. There is still no clear picture of exactly what function the Engineer's u-ship serves, so calling it a Juggernaut may simply be a stylistic choice based on how it rolled over on Vickers and Shaw when it crashed.


I'm sorry for being unclear. I wasn't referring to the Engineers vehicles and ships when I asked about the Imperial Juggernaut.

The point I was aiming for was that wheeled vehicles aren't unheard of in the Star Wars Universe, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a civilian wheeled vehicle being used on an exploration/mining ship like the Prometheus.

Quote:
My take has always been that, since we are playing in the Star Wars Universe, the rules and science of the SWU take primacy over those of the Xenoverse. If the Prometheus were faithful to Aliens tech, it would be practically useless in the SWU, requiring two years to cover a distance even the slowest ships in the SWU can cover in a matter of minutes. It might be good for a one-off mission, with PCs having a deep space encounter with a sleeper ship, but the ship just looks too d@man good and modern to be some ancient derelict floating through space. It fits way better as a state-of-the-art long range exploration vessel.


I agree with Star Wars tech taking primacy, and IMO the reason the ship goes on missions that take years to complete isn't because the ship is slow, it's because the ships are intended to go beyond the sphere of influence of Imperial/Republic laws into the Unknown Regions where they are free to exploit discoveries and resources any way they can get away with.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
I'm sorry for being unclear. I wasn't referring to the Engineers vehicles and ships when I asked about the Imperial Juggernaut.

No need to apologize; I made a tenuous logical leap connecting the use of the word Juggernaut.

Quote:
The point I was aiming for was that wheeled vehicles aren't unheard of in the Star Wars Universe, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a civilian wheeled vehicle being used on an exploration/mining ship like the Prometheus.

But consider also that, in Prometheus, the vehicles are wheeled / tracked because they don't have anti-grav drive tech in that universe. There hasn't been a clear distinction in the SWU of the strengths and weaknesses of various forms of vehicular locomotion, apart from Walkers being called "All-Terrain", but in a galaxy where repulsorlifts are available, there would need to be clear advantages to using wheeled vehicles over repulsorlifts.

Quote:
I agree with Star Wars tech taking primacy, and IMO the reason the ship goes on missions that take years to complete isn't because the ship is slow, it's because the ships are intended to go beyond the sphere of influence of Imperial/Republic laws into the Unknown Regions where they are free to exploit discoveries and resources any way they can get away with.

I think that would be more true under the Republic than the Empire. The Empire seems to operate on a crony-capitalist model used by fascist regimes; so as long as the corporations have friendly relationships with the Empire, they could likely get away with quite a bit. My thinking is that the ship's endurance is also intended for long-duration survey missions, performing detailed prospecting on multiple locations on the same planet.
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